The_Squid Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 ....if the electorate knew that he believed God lived on the planet Kolob? According to Mormonism, the earth was created there and moved to where it is now in the solar system. Mormons also have some special underwear requirements that are interesting.... I suppose religious clothing is not all that unusual, but underwear is an interesting one. As far as religions go, it was "discovered" rather recently, in the 1800's when Joe Smith was visited by an angel. He was 14 years old when this occurred. Wow! Lucky! The angel told Smith that he should save the native Americans, who are a lost tribe of Israel. Smith had a magical set of spectacles called "seer stones". The stones had names. The religion forbids coffee or tea. And what if Romney mentioned that Jesus visited the Americas? Would that have been a vote loser for him? This cult really took off and now has millions of devotees. It is now a branch of Christianity. I'm amazed that these beliefs were not an election issue.... Quote
Bonam Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 Shrug, just as implausible as any other religion. Why would they be an election issue? Quote
The_Squid Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Shrug, just as implausible as any other religion. Why would they be an election issue? Because it is a very unusual belief system invented by a teenager in the 1800's. Do you think he would have lost any votes of these beliefs were more widely known and discussed? Edited November 12, 2012 by The_Squid Quote
segnosaur Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 Shrug, just as implausible as any other religion. Why would they be an election issue? Because people tend to prefer their own religious mumbo-jumbo to other people's mumbo-jumbo. For anyone interested in learning about the founding of mormonism, I suggest the South Park episode "All About Mormons" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_About_Mormons Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 So it is OK that President Obama received even more votes than Governor Romney despite his own religious beliefs? Is this just your own personal attack against The Church of Latter Day Saints (LDS) ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Imagine if someone asked this question about Jews instead of Mormons. That should give you some idea of how offensive the idea behind the OP is. Edited November 12, 2012 by cybercoma Quote
eyeball Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 I'm amazed that these beliefs were not an election issue.... Would you be any less amazed should an atheist presidential candidate transit an election with nary a theological scratch to show for it? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bleeding heart Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 ....if the electorate knew that he believed God lived on the planet Kolob? According to Mormonism, the earth was created there and moved to where it is now in the solar system. Mormons also have some special underwear requirements that are interesting.... I suppose religious clothing is not all that unusual, but underwear is an interesting one. I'm amazed that these beliefs were not an election issue.... The Graham Dynasty has decreed--with impeccable political timing and convenience--that the planet Kolob and magic underwear are commensurate with Christian doctrine generally, so there's no conflict. If the day ever comes when a conservative Muslim or atheist is on the Republican ticket, we will be informed that they, too, are Christians. Just to head off the predicted conniptions from the religious Right, an unsuually sensitive bunch. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
The_Squid Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Posted November 12, 2012 So it is OK that President Obama received even more votes than Governor Romney despite his own religious beliefs? I think Obama's beliefs are more mainstream... Which is kind of my point. Do you think Romney would have lost votes? Is this just your own personal attack against The Church of Latter Day Saints (LDS) ? Is it an attack on Mormonism? I don't think I am attacking it by pointing out some of their more unusual beliefs. However, I am fine with it being called an "attack" if that's what folks want to characterize it as. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 ....if the electorate knew that he believed God lived on the planet Kolob? According to Mormonism, the earth was created there and moved to where it is now in the solar system. Mormons also have some special underwear requirements that are interesting.... I suppose religious clothing is not all that unusual, but underwear is an interesting one. ..... How do you know what Romney believes? Do you honestly think all Mormons think exactly the same thing about absolutely everything regarding their religious beliefs? You don't think any of them have any individual, personal beliefs? Quote
The_Squid Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Posted November 12, 2012 Imagine if someone asked this question about Jews instead of Mormons. That should give you some idea of how offensive the idea behind the OP is. It probably is offensive to Mormons for me to ask these questions and point out these tenants. But that's ok. I am not saying that Mormonism is any more or less worthy of worshippers than Judaism. But the fact is that it is not as mainstream. People might consider unusual if they knew more about it. My question again: do people on this forum think Romney would have lost votes if Mormon beliefs were brought up? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 I think Obama's beliefs are more mainstream... Which is kind of my point. Do you think Romney would have lost votes? No...he is called Governor Romney for a reason, as was his father. Obama's belief system is not held in any higher constitutional regard than are Romney's. This is the point you are missing.....Romney has a right to religious freedom, a right that appeals to many voters. If he were a declared atheist, he would have garnered far fewer votes. Is it an attack on Mormonism? I don't think I am attacking it by pointing out some of their more unusual beliefs. However, I am fine with it being called an "attack" if that's what folks want to characterize it as. Unusual compared to what? Do you really want to go down that road? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 How do you know what Romney believes? Do you honestly think all Mormons think exactly the same thing about absolutely everything regarding their religious beliefs? You don't think any of them have any individual, personal beliefs? Romney sure as heck didn't become a leader in the Church of Latter Day Saints by only loosely believing their tenets. Quote
The_Squid Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Posted November 12, 2012 How do you know what Romney believes? Do you honestly think all Mormons think exactly the same thing about absolutely everything regarding their religious beliefs? You don't think any of them have any individual, personal beliefs? I don't have a clue what Romney believes. I think it would be interesting to know if he believes that there is a planet Kolob. It would be like asking a Christian if they believe in heaven.... The question is not that far fetched or offensive if you look at it in that context, I don't think. Quote
The_Squid Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Posted November 12, 2012 Unusual compared to what? Do you really want to go down that road? I, personally, don't find it more unusual than other religions. But I think people with "mainstream" Christian beliefs might. Interesting that you think a declared atheist would have lost more votes. I think you're correct about that. I think he would have lost a lot of votes. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 There is a planet "Kolob"...and we are discovering hundreds more of them each year. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 I, personally, don't find it more unusual than other religions. But I think people with "mainstream" Christian beliefs might. Interesting that you think a declared atheist would have lost more votes. I think you're correct about that. Ergo, Romney was not penalized for his religious beliefs any more than other "mainstream" candidates. Perhaps you don't understand just how "mainstream" LDS is in the United States? I think he would have lost a lot of votes. That's your unsupported opinion....he did quite well. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 It probably is offensive to Mormons for me to ask these questions and point out these tenants. But that's ok. I am not saying that Mormonism is any more or less worthy of worshippers than Judaism. But the fact is that it is not as mainstream. People might consider unusual if they knew more about it. My question again: do people on this forum think Romney would have lost votes if Mormon beliefs were brought up? I'm pretty sure everyone knew he was a Mormon. Your question suggests that voters would reject a minority because they are a minority. I'm not sure that's necessarily the case. He had mainstream support through the GOP. Are Mormon beliefs crazy? Yeah, but not more than the Amish or other orthodox religious sects. What's questionable about him being a Mormon is that he converted as an adult at a time when he would have known full well that the Church of LDS was a racist organization. Black people until the 80s were not allowed to take part in some of the activities in the church that were required for salvation, according to their beliefs. Had Romney joined the Church of LDS before the 60s when these kind of beliefs were status quo that would have been one thing. He converted in 1969 just before he married his wife though. Romney had converted at a time when he would have known full well that this was the case and he was an adult at the time, almost 30 years old actually. This was well into the Civil Rights Movement and after the Church of LDS was being heavily criticized for its racist teachings and practices. Although the Church was open to anyone, black people could not be saved. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 I don't have a clue what Romney believes. I think it would be interesting to know if he believes that there is a planet Kolob. It would be like asking a Christian if they believe in heaven.... The question is not that far fetched or offensive if you look at it in that context, I don't think. That's just it - you don't have a clue. Many people of the same faith don't share all beliefs of said faith. For example, not all Methodists believe in Hell; one can't assume that anyone who is a Methodist believes in Hell and ascribe that belief to him/her. As for what Romney believes, it doesn't matter what his personal beliefs are - it has nothing to do with the office he was seeking. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 I don't have a clue what Romney believes. I think it would be interesting to know if he believes that there is a planet Kolob. It would be like asking a Christian if they believe in heaven.... The question is not that far fetched or offensive if you look at it in that context, I don't think. Of course he believes that. He was a bishop in the Mormon Church. That's the highest level one gets at the level of priesthood there. You don't become a bishop in the Church and not believe in their version of Heaven. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 That's just it - you don't have a clue. Many people of the same faith don't share all beliefs of said faith. For example, not all Methodists believe in Hell; one can't assume that anyone who is a Methodist believes in Hell and ascribe that belief to him/her. As for what Romney believes, it doesn't matter what his personal beliefs are - it has nothing to do with the office he was seeking. Stop arguing for argument's sake. He was a bishop. He wasn't picking and choosing the parts of the faith that he believed. You don't reach the highest level of priesthood in a Church by not believing in its basic tenets. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 Stop arguing for argument's sake. He was a bishop. He wasn't picking and choosing the parts of the faith that he believed. You don't reach the highest level of priesthood in a Church by not believing in its basic tenets. Stop telling me what to do. I'll "argue" any point I see fit. You seem to be under the impression that you police this board. Newsflash. You don't. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS) apparently has not hindered the political careers of other Mormons: Noted politicians — Harry Reid, the Democratic senator from Nevada, has been the Senate majority leader since January 2007. Mr. Reid converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints while he was a college student. He has said that his Democratic values mirror Mormon values. Republican Sen. Orrin G. Hatchof Utah has been in the Senate since 1977. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 More to the point, AW, it's a stupid and pointless argument to be making anyway. It's perfectly reasonable to assume he believes those things given his status in the Church. This makes your argument "we can't know what a person believes" complete nonsense. You could argue from a position of radical doubt about anything and it's mostly useless for any kind of conversation. We can't know anything. We could all just be brains in a vat. Maybe we're living in the matrix. Life is just a computer simulation. Maybe you're not even posting, but a script written by someone to just contradict everything people say, regardless of what they say. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 Stop telling me what to do. I'll "argue" any point I see fit. You seem to be under the impression that you police this board. Newsflash. You don't. Yea...what she said. Who died and left him Queen? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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