Smallc Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 You obviously don't understand the legislation at all. It's nothing like our system or the other "civilized" health coverage. I've seriously never seen such an Obama drone such as yourself. This isn't the health plan Obama wanted, and you know it. This the was the Republican plan, until Obama decided to support it. Then it was socialism. The fact that you still think I'm an Obama drone, after I've repeatedly said he probably should have lost the election shows just how partisan you are. But in a way, you're right, they are adapting. By cutting jobs and hours. Some...and some won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 This isn't the health plan Obama wanted, and you know it. This the was the Republican plan, until Obama decided to support it. Then it was socialism. The fact that you still think I'm an Obama drone, after I've repeatedly said he probably should have lost the election shows just how partisan you are. Some...and some won't. The individual mandate was a plan from some Republicans. But Obamacare is much more than the individual mandate. Are you still pretending to be dumb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 And they'll adapt, just as they do in every other civilized democracy with mandatory health coverage for all people. And btw, there is no mandatory health coverage in Canada. If somebody decides they want to live in Ontario, they're not forced by the government to register for OHIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Son Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 And btw, there is no mandatory health coverage in Canada. If somebody decides they want to live in Ontario, they're not forced by the government to register for OHIP. If so then someone better change the Canada Health Act feature on this site where it says: "Each province and territory provides its residents with a mandatory health insurance plan." http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/canada-health-act-provisions-administration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Son Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Then you agree with me. This rate change will affect the market and the economy. Why all the drama?Edit: on second thought, you may not mind that the rate increase is going to hit a weak economy already headed for another recession according to economists. I suspect that on this you differ with me on that. Also, I never claimed an apocolypse. Ideally I would support continued stimulus and no tax increases until the economy recovers enough for needed spending cuts and tax increases to be phased in without causing a recession. That is the position that the IMF supports for the best recovery prospects. It is made more difficult in the US because Dubya left the economy with little room to move. However, that is the reality, and it was compounded by the nutbars in the Republican party forcing the Obama administration to immediate deficit reduction in order to get the debt ceiling raised. That bed was made. The rate increases will hurt the economy. The reductions in government spending will do the same. From what I can see the predictions seem to be a short recession with decent growth starting in the second half of 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 More than a few job losses, but wait for cap and trade, there'll be more. http://www.examiner.com/article/job-loss-an-early-consequence-of-election Three days after the re-election of President Barack Obama, consequences are being felt. Dozens of companies have announced layoffs since Tuesday’s election, and the list is expanding rapidly. The companies announcing layoffs now include: Westinghouse Research in Motion Limited Lightyear Network Solutions Providence Journal Hawker Beechcraft Boeing CVPH Medical Center US Cellular Momentive Performance Materials Rocketdyne Brake Parts Vestas Wind Systems Husqvarna Center for Hospice New York Bristol-Meyers OCE North America Darden Restaurants United Blood Services Gulf These companies alone represent thousands of jobs Other companies planning Obamacare-related cuts include: Smith & Nephew – 770 layoffs Abbott Labs – 700 layoffs Covidien – 595 layoffs Kinetic Concepts – 427 layoffs St. Jude Medical – 300 layoffs Hill Rom – 200 layoffs Beyond the complete elimination of a significant number of American jobs is another looming problem created by the health care law – a shift from full-time to part-time workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 America will be just fine. How about you give the man chosen by a majority of the American people a chance before you start cheering against a great nation. He is in a very elite club of presidents who got more then 51% of the vote twice Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Reagan. I think we sit back and give it sme time before we start running around yelling about the sky falling ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) America will be just fine.Because ultimately the dems will have to severely modify their policies in order to limit the damage caused by them even if they are not cancelled. Of course, it is possible that the dems will not do this and america will not be fine. Edited November 11, 2012 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Because ultimately the dems will have to severely modify their policies in order to limit the damage caused by them even if they are not cancelled. Of course, it is possible that the dems will not do this and america will not be fine. Nope America will be just fine because the people of America agree on 95% of everything and playing with that last 5% isn't going to crush the great nation no matter who is charge although I think the Dems are usually more right on the 5% then Republicans. Now that the election is over can we stop pretending on the right that Obama is anything but a centrist? Seriously it is getting old and is half the reason why they were crushed by team Blue in the election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Now that the election is over can we stop pretending on the right that Obama is anything but a centrist?Obamacare is beast that will kill jobs because it makes companies pay for the cost of the plan. If Americans really want a healthcare plan they should pay for it from personal taxes so it does not create such a huge disincentive for employers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Yes they should. Obama wanted a public plan option. He couldn't get that. The insurance lobby got exactly what they wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Yes they should. Obama wanted a public plan option. He couldn't get that. The insurance lobby got exactly what they wanted.So what? Obama was the one so desperate to claim he did something that he agreed to a plan that will kill jobs. The lobbyists did not force Obama to agree - he made that choice and is solely responsible for the jobs that are lost as a result of that choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Obamacare is beast that will kill jobs because it makes companies pay for the cost of the plan. If Americans really want a healthcare plan they should pay for it from personal taxes so it does not create such a huge disincentive for employers. Healthcare needs to be completely decoupled from employment. I've been saying that since forever. The American system where for some reason employers have to provide for healthcare makes no sense at all; it reduces job mobility, increases costs for employers, and introduces a gigantic amount of red tape and overhead that otherwise would not need to exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Healthcare needs to be completely decoupled from employment. I've been saying that since forever. The American system where for some reason employers have to provide for healthcare makes no sense at all; it reduces job mobility, increases costs for employers, and introduces a gigantic amount of red tape and overhead that otherwise would not need to exist. All of those problems which were created by Nixon have been addressed with Obama's healthcare bill. Give it a shot and see what happens. Anything has to be better then Americans dying because they can't afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 So what? Obama was the one so desperate to claim he did something that he agreed to a plan that will kill jobs. The lobbyists did not force Obama to agree - he made that choice and is solely responsible for the jobs that are lost as a result of that choice. Not solely, congress is just as much to blame for passing that crap instead of real healthcare reform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 All of those problems which were created by Nixon have been addressed with Obama's healthcare bill. Give it a shot and see what happens. Anything has to be better then Americans dying because they can't afford it. Disagree. When people say "anything is better" or "it couldn't possibly be worse", all it demonstrates is a lack of imagination on the part of the person saying so. Things can ALWAYS be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 So what? Obama was the one so desperate to claim he did something that he agreed to a plan that will kill jobs. That's right, Obama was trying to get something done. Too bad he had no help from the Republicans in Congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 That's right, Obama was trying to get something done. Too bad he had no help from the Republicans in Congress. He had a considerable period of time where the democrats controlled both the house and senate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 America will be just fine. How about you give the man chosen by a majority of the American people a chance before you start cheering against a great nation. He is in a very elite club of presidents who got more then 51% of the vote twice Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Reagan. I think we sit back and give it sme time before we start running around yelling about the sky falling ok? I'm not cheering against anything. I'm worried about policies that make it harder for job creation and economic growth. But yes, Obama is in elite company. He's the only president in quite a long time to recieve less popular votes, and less electoral votes than he did the first time. President's that win 2nd terms, win more popular votes and more electoral votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 He had a considerable period of time where the democrats controlled both the house and senate... Yep, 2 years. But he wasted most of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 He had a considerable period of time where the democrats controlled both the house and senate... Perhaps I should rephrase that - conservatives in Congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Perhaps I should rephrase that - conservatives in Congress. His problem wasn't with conservatives, it was with moderate Democrats. Even they couldn't go along with some of his horrible ideas. They have constituents to represent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 His problem wasn't with conservatives, it was with moderate Democrats. Yes, like I said, conservatives. What you consider moderate, most of us consider....not moderate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) I'm not cheering against anything. I'm worried about policies that make it harder for job creation and economic growth. But yes, Obama is in elite company. He's the only president in quite a long time to recieve less popular votes, and less electoral votes than he did the first time. President's that win 2nd terms, win more popular votes and more electoral votes. True, and it's quite interesting. And one might further ask what this says about Romney's support. Pretty lacklustre, it appears. Which might actually speak well for the intelligence of Republicans, now that I think on it. Edited November 11, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 True, and it's quite interesting. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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