Black Dog Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) This is pretty silly considering theres no real difference between the democratic and republican records in this regard, and since the US has had this statist bent for such a long time. Niel Macdonald actually did a piece on this last night... on how people like you believe in this false perception but its never really been true. A lot of lefties thought GWB's second term would end in tyrrany with government spies everywhere and detention centres for thought criminals. Something in the nature of the American psyche seems to make them think their way of life is constantly under threat. Edited November 7, 2012 by Black Dog Quote
wyly Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 I disagree with the notion that the Republicans need to moderate to win. Reps made significant gains in the swing states even though Obama had the post-recession bounce in jobs/gdp/market. and democrats are counting on that to win in 2016 again, romney moderated his stance to regain the center, a hard right tea party slant will insure a democratic dominance in the future as angry old white guys die off ...I think Obama's 2nd term will do to the Dems what Bush's 2nd term did to Republicans. It's gonna be a painful 4 years for the stock and jobs markets though. the economy will improve, it's inevitable it always does... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Smallc Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 I think Obama's 2nd term will do to the Dems what Bush's 2nd term did to Republicans. It's gonna be a painful 4 years for the stock and jobs markets though. Based on what? Certainly not on Obama. The reason that things are as they currently are can be attributed pretty much entirely to global economic weakness, especially in Europe and Asia. Obama can't compete with that...he has however, created millions of private sector jobs, while at the same time reduced the number of government jobs quite significantly. Obama has actually not been bad for the economy, there was simply a massive hill to climb, and the summit keeps moving because of world circumstance. Quote
wyly Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 Based on what? Certainly not on Obama. The reason that things are as they currently are can be attributed pretty much entirely to global economic weakness, especially in Europe and Asia. Obama can't compete with that...he has however, created millions of private sector jobs, while at the same time reduced the number of government jobs quite significantly. Obama has actually not been bad for the economy, there was simply a massive hill to climb, and the summit keeps moving because of world circumstance. Obama saving the auto industry early was crucial, the auto producing states jobs paid off...how many chrysler and GM employes voted for romney ? Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
CPCFTW Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 Based on what? Certainly not on Obama. The reason that things are as they currently are can be attributed pretty much entirely to global economic weakness, especially in Europe and Asia. Obama can't compete with that...he has however, created millions of private sector jobs, while at the same time reduced the number of government jobs quite significantly. Obama has actually not been bad for the economy, there was simply a massive hill to climb, and the summit keeps moving because of world circumstance. Disagree. US is essentially the world economy's engine. Greece would be an afterthought if the US had its fiscal situation resolved. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 I disagree with the notion that the Republicans need to moderate to win.Then you obviously didn't pay attention to the Senatorial races where Todd Akin and Richard Mourdoch got crushed. Quote
wyly Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 Disagree. US is essentially the world economy's engine. Greece would be an afterthought if the US had its fiscal situation resolved. the US doesn't exist in a economic bubble ...Greece had the potential start a chain reaction that could take down the EU, economically the EU is huge the US can not insulate itself from that size of economic catastrophe and neither can China... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
jbg Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Posted November 7, 2012 Partly I think, but also because America is not the same as it used to be. There are many more groups who IMO are looking more to the gov`t for 'entitlements' and handouts, they are looking for more gov't funding etc. One of the reasons P.R. wants to be a 51st state, more handouts from the gov't. You mean brown people, yeah? It's easy to deride these concerns as racism. But why should subsidies be unlimited? Does someone have a counterfeit machine to pay for all these goodies? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
wyly Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 Then you obviously didn't pay attention to the Senatorial races where Todd Akin and Richard Mourdoch got crushed. if watched the cbc last night that was discussed, would republicans wake up and see they were out of touch with changing demographics and social progress or would they double down and blame the moderate republicans...well now you know the answer... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
CPCFTW Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 Based on what? Certainly not on Obama. The reason that things are as they currently are can be attributed pretty much entirely to global economic weakness, especially in Europe and Asia. Obama can't compete with that...he has however, created millions of private sector jobs, while at the same time reduced the number of government jobs quite significantly. Obama has actually not been bad for the economy, there was simply a massive hill to climb, and the summit keeps moving because of world circumstance. Disagree. US is essentially the world economy's engine. Greece would be an afterthought if the US had its fiscal situation resolved and returned to full employment. Quote
Smallc Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 Disagree. US is essentially the world economy's engine. That isn't now and hasn't ever been true. Europe has a larger economy. Greece would be an afterthought if the US had its fiscal situation resolved. Again, no. Quote
Black Dog Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 It's easy to deride these concerns as racism. But why should subsidies be unlimited? Does someone have a counterfeit machine to pay for all these goodies? I'd take some of these "concerns" as legit if people could actually name some of these unfair and excessive entitlement programs that the lazy brown people are too busy sponging off of to actually find work. But too often it's not about these programs (whatever they are), but dog-whistle race politics. Ever has been thus ("welfare queens" anybody?). Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 That isn't now and hasn't ever been true. Europe has a larger economy. Europe is not a country. By that measure, the USA has more trade with Europe than Canada, no longer being America's #1 trading partner. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 Europe is not a country. That's irrelevant to the point. The point wasn't about comparing countries. Quit being obtuse for the sake of it. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 No.....the facts are what they are. I don't tell you what to do on this forum, and would appreciate the same courtesy. Doesn't your ignore button work? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 The world's largest economies 2012: http://www.therichest.org/world/worlds-largest-economies/ Quote
wyly Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) That's irrelevant to the point. The point wasn't about comparing countries. Quit being obtuse for the sake of it. the definition of country is questionable...the Eu has a common currency, a common parliament, common laws and independent state parliaments sounds very similar to the USA...biggest difference appears to be EU states have more independence... and we have foreigner as our head of state... Edited November 7, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 OK...can we agree that Canada is certainly not the largest economy? Or is that too sensitive a statement? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) In 2011, the EU's economy produced $15.6 trillion, while the U.S. came in at $15.29 trillion. http://useconomy.abo...est_economy.htm Considering we are just one country, and it's all within our control, I'd say not too shabby. Edited November 7, 2012 by American Woman Quote
Smallc Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 I think everyone is still missing the point.... Quote
punked Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 I think everyone is still missing the point.... I get the point Small C any country or federation that makes up 10-20% of the world economy (USA, China, EU. etc) will hurt every other country in the world if they do not correct the course they are on. In this case the USA righted the ship while the EU made the holes in the boat bigger. So it doesn't make a difference on the markets if the US is doing well because the EU and to a lessor extent China are crashing. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) I understood it the way punked just explained it. I just didn't reply because I didn't think the stuff in between was worth replying to. Especially since I'm sure we'll just hear how the EU isn't a country again, as if that matters to the argument at all. Edited November 7, 2012 by cybercoma Quote
CPCFTW Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 So what's Greece's GDP? Greece (and the other sovereign debt crisis countries) would be able to service their debt if the US had fully recovered in the past 4 yrs. It's pretty simple guys. Quote
Smallc Posted November 7, 2012 Report Posted November 7, 2012 Especially since I'm sure we'll just hear how the EU isn't a country again, So what's Greece's GDP? Close enough. Quote
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