bleeding heart Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 One would imagine that the Republicans, on balance, are the more likely to pray. How come Mitt didn't win? God hates them, obviously. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
betsy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) bcsapper, on 09 November 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:One would imagine that the Republicans, on balance, are the more likely to pray. How come Mitt didn't win? Depends. How or what they prayed for. I saw an interview with the leader of the Mormon church. He was asked if Mormons should vote for Romney. He said, "No. They should vote with their conscience." Christians know..."Thy will be done." That's what I prayed for. Who knows. Check out the latest topic in US Politics, Obama's adviser. Perhaps it's going to be similar to this: Isaiah 3 8 Jerusalem staggers, Judah is falling; their words and deeds are against the Lord, defying his glorious presence. 9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves. 10 Tell the righteous it will be well with them, for they will enjoy the fruit of their deeds. 11 Woe to the wicked! Disaster is upon them! They will be paid back for what their hands have done. 12 Youths oppress my people, women rule over them. My people, your guides lead you astray; they turn you from the path. And maybe not. God has His own reasons. Edited November 11, 2012 by betsy Quote
Guest Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 Depends. God has His own reasons. So praying's a bit of a lottery then? Might as well buy a ticket. Quote
betsy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) So praying's a bit of a lottery then? Might as well buy a ticket. You don't believe....so why would it matter to you whether it works or not. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, nor would I waste my time reading and posting about it. Unless of course, somehow it intrigues you? Edited November 11, 2012 by betsy Quote
bleeding heart Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 You don't believe....so why would it matter to you whether it works or not. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, nor would I waste my time reading and posting about it. You're not supposed to be actively discouraging the lost non-believers. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
betsy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Posted November 11, 2012 You're not supposed to be actively discouraging the lost non-believers. There's nothing to discourage about him! Free will. No one can force him to believe or accept what I say.... Quote
bleeding heart Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 There's nothing to discourage about him! You were suggesting he not bother. That's active discouragement. But as you say....it's your free will to do so, if it pleases you. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Sleipnir Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 Mighty AC "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." -Thomas Paine It's no use debating with someone who speaks gibberish Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Guest Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) You don't believe....so why would it matter to you whether it works or not. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, nor would I waste my time reading and posting about it. Unless of course, somehow it intrigues you? I just like arguing. Why else would I frequent a forum like this? And, to be fair, religious belief does intrigue me. I find it very difficult to understand how a person who truly believes in a God, and by extension, a Heaven and a Hell, can live what I might call a normal life. If they truly believe that eternity in God's presence is the reward for living this infinitesimally small speck of time doing his(her) bidding, how come any religious people have possessions? If it were my belief, I'd give everything to the poor and spend the rest of my life washing the feet of lepers, just to be sure. Edited November 11, 2012 by bcsapper Quote
Sleipnir Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 If it were my belief, I'd give everything to the poor and spend the rest of my life washing the feet of lepers, just to be sure. Why not simply give them antibiotics? People with leprosy can be cured within the few months of treatment. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Guest Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 Why not simply give them antibiotics? People with leprosy can be cured within the few months of treatment. Metaphor... Quote
betsy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) I just like arguing. Why else would I frequent a forum like this? And, to be fair, religious belief does intrigue me. I find it very difficult to understand how a person who truly believes in a God, and by extension, a Heaven and a Hell, can live what I might call a normal life. I appreciate your interest. It is not easy being a Christian. Even Christ Himself had said that. Some have the false expectation in thinking that all one has to do is become a Christian and it'll be "smooth-sailing" through life. It is very possible to "smooth-sail" through life - but that comes with a changed attitude, a changed frame of mind and a deep trust and belief in God. When I say "smooth-sail," it doesn't mean there'll be no more hardships or troubles.....there'll still be those as we go through life , but it is how you'll go through them...how you'll face them.... that's what I mean by "smooth-sail." There is something very liberating in just humbly handing your life to God to do as He pleases. In humbly accepting that we're created for His pleasure....that the meaning and purpose of life is to love, honor and worship Him...to place our trust in Him. If they truly believe that eternity in God's presence is the reward for living this infinitesimally small speck of time doing his(her) bidding, how come any religious people have possessions? We are allowed to have possessions. There is nothing wrong about being wealthy. It is how we treat possessions and wealth, that's where it matters. If we place possessions and wealth above all else, lets them distract us from God, and we stray from God - then there's a big problem. If you treat a possession as something you can't live without - chances are, it's become your master! If it were my belief, I'd give everything to the poor and spend the rest of my life washing the feet of lepers, just to be sure. There's nothing to stop people from doing all those. Even non-believers can do good works. However, doing all those will not save you....unless you believe that Jesus Christ is your Saviour (who died for your sins), humbly acknowledge (confess) your sins to God, and repent for them. Repentance means a change in lifestyle or frame of mind. Like, if I confess being a thief....and then, still remain a thief...that's not repentance. If I confess to being an adulterer, and still continue my affair with my mistress....that's not repentance. I've been born and raised a Christian....but I've never really understood or recognized experiencing God until I got born again. It will be a constant battle inside me for as long as I live - not to fall into temptation. I'm trying to explain to you my faith as best as I can. Edited November 11, 2012 by betsy Quote
The_Squid Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) FYI, witches do exist. Some are Wiccans. Exodus 22:18 King James Version (KJV) Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Are you in favour of the death penalty for the act of being a witch? If not, then why not throw out the parts in the bible about homosexuals as well? Edited November 11, 2012 by The_Squid Quote
cybercoma Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 I BELIEVE SCIENCE WAS GIVEN TO US BY GOD Then why do you so adamantly reject His gift? If you believe it's a gift from God, you've done a pretty good job on these forums of throwing it back in His face. Quote
Sleipnir Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) It is not easy being a Christian. Even Christ Himself had said that. That's a lie. Jesus never called himself a Christian. Just like Karl Marx never called himself a Marxist, you cannot call yourself with a title of yourself - if so, that would make you a follower of your own. So if Jesus called himself a Christian, then Jesus is not the son of god they were lead to believe. Edited November 11, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Sleipnir Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Jesus was a Jew Seems that Judaism is the original religion from which Christianity is an offshoot from. Kinda like 'Independent Scientology' being an offshoot from the original Scientology. Edited November 11, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
betsy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Posted November 11, 2012 Exodus 22:18 King James Version (KJV) Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Are you in favour of the death penalty for the act of being a witch? Actually I've changed my position on capital punishment. So my answer to that is, no. Going back to Exodus: the Mosaic Law is for the Jews. What we Gentiles follow are the 10 Commandments, and the teachings of Jesus Christ. If not, then why not throw out the parts in the bible about homosexuals as well? I can't. It's still in the New Testament. Quote
GostHacked Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Well I can't help it if science happens to support the Bible, can I? Your belief in evolution is even more "mythological" than mine, to put it bluntly! At least I've got several points - being backed up by science - and they seem to be coming out now at a faster rate by the looks of it. On the other hand your pathetic evolution theory has yet to find a SINGLE EVIDENCE! Bingo! Just like I said, a lot of resistance against religion has something to do with the rules and moral laws dictated by religion. And his post puts Betsy back on top of my fave trolls list. Edited November 11, 2012 by GostHacked Quote
The_Squid Posted November 11, 2012 Report Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Actually I've changed my position on capital punishment. So my answer to that is, no. Going back to Exodus: the Mosaic Law is for the Jews. What we Gentiles follow are the 10 Commandments, and the teachings of Jesus Christ. So witchcraft is not a terrible sin and those folks are perfectly OK? I can't. It's still in the New Testament. Sure you can..... All it takes is realizing that the bible isn't the word of god, but words of terrible men. So you keep the Sabbath holy? You don't drive or do anything like that? Never go shopping? Edited November 12, 2012 by The_Squid Quote
betsy Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) So witchcraft is not a terrible sin and those folks are perfectly OK? I didn't say that. You asked about the death penalty. So you keep the Sabbath holy? You don't drive or do anything like that? Never go shopping? Read the New Testament. Go ask a Pastor. Sure you can..... All it takes is realizing that the bible isn't the word of god, but words of terrible men. <yawn> And that puts an end to this very boring, redundant .....um....chitchat. <yawn again> <mutters> silly nonsense little opinion.... Edited November 12, 2012 by betsy Quote
Mighty AC Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 You have no idea what my belief system is - and you do not have the answers to what God is. ... ]You are referring to agnostics. [/Quote] I am assuming you fall under the blanket political term of Christianity, but if not please let me know. I also would never claim to know what god is, I don't believe in the existence of deities. It seems that we are stuck on terminology here. There are two claims in play here, belief claims and knowledge claims. The terms theist and atheist are opposites and refer to belief. Theists believe in the existence of deities, atheists do not believe. Knowledge claims are separate. Gnostics claim to know something, Agnostics make no such claim. I am an agnostic, atheist. I do not believe in the existence of gods but I do not claim to know that for sure. We can't prove a negative, even if the odds of its existence are extremely remote. That's why I referred to examples similar to deities like, unicorns, Sasquatch and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The possibility that they exist is very unlikely, but like a god we can not rule them out completely. Most Christians are gnostic theists. They claim to know god exists. However, the terms are misused so much that each phrase has been saddled with multiple meanings. You just did, by claiming that God is a "magical being." "Magic" and "religion" are two very different things.[/Quote] Yes, magic and religion are two very different things. By magic I'm not referring to card tricks and staged illusions. I'm saying believers claim their god has "the power to apparently influence the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces."Now that the labels are straightened out, maybe you can answer a few questions for me. We cannot absolutely prove that Odin or hobbits do not exist. 1) Do you believe they exist? 2) Why or why not? Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Mighty AC Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 Why can't I use science? Why shouldn't I use science? When I've repeatedly stated several times on this board that I BELIEVE SCIENCE WAS GIVEN TO US BY GOD? Science is the best method for inquiry we have. However, you quote mine scientific knowledge. I'm sure you are familiar with politicians deliberately taking the comments of their opponents out of context to distort meaning. That's what you do with scientific knowledge and it's dishonest. Science relentlessly evaluates evidence in pursuit of truth, it does not have predetermined outcomes. You do and you ignore findings that refute your position while embracing those that support it. That's dishonest. We accept this sort of fraud it in politics and religion but not science. Finally, you either do not understand evolution or you intentionally misrepresent it. Evolution does not explain how life began nor is it based on ancestral charts. At least learn about what you are trying to refute. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Sleipnir Posted November 12, 2012 Report Posted November 12, 2012 When I've repeatedly stated several times on this board that I BELIEVE SCIENCE WAS GIVEN TO US BY GOD? Science is the method of finding something out, to say that science was given to us is nonsense and irrational. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
betsy Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Science is the best method for inquiry we have. However, you quote mine scientific knowledge. I'm sure you are familiar with politicians deliberately taking the comments of their opponents out of context to distort meaning. That's what you do with scientific knowledge and it's dishonest. Science relentlessly evaluates evidence in pursuit of truth, it does not have predetermined outcomes. You do and you ignore findings that refute your position while embracing those that support it. That's dishonest. We accept this sort of fraud it in politics and religion but not science. Finally, you either do not understand evolution or you intentionally misrepresent it. Evolution does not explain how life began nor is it based on ancestral charts. At least learn about what you are trying to refute. Oh baloney! Explain that to yourself. Either you don't read the replies to your posts, or you fail to get the point, or you deliberately ignore.....in which case, what's the point of trying to discuss when you refuse to engage? It's a waste of time. It's like I'm holding up a big target for you to shoot at....and you keep aiming for the apples above! Did you go to the topic, What is a New Atheist? You're regurgitating the same old malarkey from your recent previous posts.....that must mean you've got nothing else to pull out. Edited November 12, 2012 by betsy Quote
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