Did you know Alberta once went bankrupt

Smallc · November 24, 2012

Smallc;

do you always insult the poster's whose posts you disagree with?? How juvenile....

I bet he does when posts insult the intelligence of others...say about transfer payments?

yep.

Argus · November 25, 2012

Albertans pay the same federal income tax rate as the rest of the country.

But get less back for what they pay.

jbg · November 25, 2012

Alberta has very little debt as it stands and as oil and gas dwindle and the price goes up, and the US and China buy anything we can pull out of the ground via those shiny new pipelines that should be dug anytime soon, we should be able to squirrel away a few bucks for a rainy day.

While I do agree with much of your post, I do see a problem if oil prices drop. I see that as quite a likely event since oil prices, in real, inflation-adjusted terms are historically high.

Smallc · November 25, 2012

But get less back for what they pay.

Yes, and? Alberta is part of a country, and happens to be one of the most wealthy jurisdictions on earth. The systems put in place ensure that all Canadians benefit from Alberta's geographically based success.

jbg · November 25, 2012

Yes, and? Alberta is part of a country, and happens to be one of the most wealthy jurisdictions on earth. The systems put in place ensure that all Canadians benefit from Alberta's geographically based success.

More like two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner. When the NEP's price floor was about to benefit Alberta as oil prices plunged betweeen 1982 and 1986, Mulroney promptly abolished it.

Smallc · November 25, 2012

More like two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.

That's nice, but this is the year 2012. Alberta is the 4th most populous province in the country, and has a great deal of political clout.

jbg · November 26, 2012

That's nice, but this is the year 2012. Alberta is the 4th most populous province in the country, and has a great deal of political clout.

But not many ridings. I mean, come on, PEI has four.

cybercoma · November 26, 2012

But get less back for what they pay.

They get exactly what they're entitled to, plus all that they need for the federal government to run their operations there (ie, Cold Lake).

Smallc · November 26, 2012

But not many ridings. I mean, come on, PEI has four.

PEI can't have less than 4. Besides, Alberta isn't the only under represented province, and that is being addressed for 2015.

jbg · November 26, 2012

PEI can't have less than 4. Besides, Alberta isn't the only under represented province, and that is being addressed for 2015.

Not completely.

And Quebec as well as PEI will still have too many.

Smallc · November 27, 2012

Quebec will in fact have the exact amount it should, just like now.

wyly · November 27, 2012

But not many ridings. I mean, come on, PEI has four.

pei has four for 140k , alberta has an MP for every 139K...pei has 3 too many IMO...

Smallc · November 27, 2012

PEI does have too many, but, it's in the Constitution so.

wyly · November 27, 2012

PEI does have too many, but, it's in the Constitution so.

ya I know...shit happens...

blueblood · November 27, 2012

That's not how the system works. The system doesn't care what Quebec spends the money on, only that it's fiscal capacity is below the average as determined by the Equalization formula.

And why is it's fiscal capacity below that of other provinces, maybe because it has the most red tape of any of the provinces in Canada and stifles opportunity at every turn. Ontario is in a similar geographic and demographic situation and they were almost always a have province until the recession cut the legs out from it's customer. What's quebec's problem.

And please don't yak about the formula. It's a province managed by fools and their books show it. There is no excuse given quebec's geographics, population, and natural resources why it can't be a have province. None. Nfld and SK became have provinces along with bc Ontario, and Alberta. What's quebec's excuse. I mean mb has a low population and not much for natural resources, and the maritimes and the territories have very small populations.

This isn't about the formula existing or not, it's about getting Quebec to the same side of the formula the contributors are on, but since they are run by leftist fools, this is what happens.

DFCaper · November 27, 2012

PEI does have too many, but, it's in the Constitution so.

I don't think PEI has too much power within confederation becuase of the 4 seats.... In fact, I think this is one of the rare times I even noticed PEI mentioned on this forum...

cybercoma · November 28, 2012

And why is it's fiscal capacity below that of other provinces, maybe because it has the most red tape of any of the provinces in Canada and stifles opportunity at every turn.

If only they'd just start speaking English, instead of requiring businesses to conduct themselves in the language of the province.

blueblood · November 28, 2012

How about the businesses can conduct themselves in whatever language they want like the rest of the country. Maybe they might be inclined to stay. Language is only a part of the red tape in that province.

bleeding heart · November 28, 2012

That's nice, but this is the year 2012. Alberta is the 4th most populous province in the country, and has a great deal of political clout.

Good lord, no kidding.

It's an interesting phenomenon: occasionally, the more political and financial success achieved...the greater the delusional sense of victimhood and injustice.

I agree that Westerners, and certainly Albertans, have had some perfectly legitimate gripes about the federation.

But the times have changed, quite profoundly. No one is "screwing over" Alberta. It's a preposterous idea.

wyly · November 29, 2012

I agree that Westerners, and certainly Albertans, have had some perfectly legitimate gripes about the federation.

But the times have changed, quite profoundly. No one is "screwing over" Alberta. It's a preposterous idea.

ya but if you're a conservative you're going to repeating that lie/exaggeration over and over and over again...and dummies will believe it...what was that cliche about telling really big lies and telling it often and people will believe it...

jacee · November 29, 2012

Actually, I'm pretty sure Alberta spends more on social programs than any other province. Or most, if not all.

You'd better check that out, and the dropout rates too.

Edited November 29, 2012 by jacee

Smallc · November 30, 2012

I think he's right actually. Alberta has one of the larger governments in the country.

jacee · November 30, 2012

I think he's right actually. Alberta has one of the larger governments in the country.

Not in spending on social and educational services.

http://etatscanadiens-canadiangovernments.enap.ca/en/nav.aspx?sortcode=2.0.3.3

Concerning the expenditures of provincial and local administrations as a percentage of GDP, Quebec continues to devote the greatest share of its spending on social services and health (16.2%) –a figure that surpasses that of New Brunswick, which ranks second at 15%, and Canada, at 11.8%. In contrast, the provincial and local administrations in Alberta spend only 7.5% on social services and health as a share of the province’s GDP.

...

Alberta is the province that spends the least – relative to its GDP – on combined education, health, and social services: 12.2%. This figure is almost less than one half of that reported for Quebec. However, it is important to note that the results given for Alberta are closely related to the scale of its GDP. Thus, when the expenditures of provincial and local administrations are established on a per capita basis, Alberta spends $8,165 on education, health, and social services per capita, whereas Quebec spends $8,824.

And ...

http://etatscanadiens-canadiangovernments.enap.ca/en/nav.aspx?sortcode=2.0.3.2

Alberta's total expenditures are higher than the national average, but clearly not due to social spending.

Alberta could certainly spend more on its citizens, improving employment outcomes for its own people.

Edited November 30, 2012 by jacee

Argus · November 30, 2012

Not in spending on social and educational services.

http://etatscanadien...ortcode=2.0.3.3

Concerning the expenditures of provincial and local administrations as a percentage of GDP, Quebec continues to devote the greatest share of its spending on social services and health (16.2%) –

It's not that easy to compare these things, especially with Quebec. Quebec operates its own system in many respects, in place of services provided by the feds. They have their own public pension plan, for example, rather than taking part in CPP. And the amount they spend on daycare also tends to throw off direct comparisons. I can tell you that Quebec's health care is a mess. The people on the other side of the river talk of 24 hour waits in hospital ER rooms, and six month waits for appointments to see a GP. Quebec pays less for almost everything doctors do than Ontario and other provinces.

you also neglected to add this from your cite:

Alberta is the province that spends the least – relative to its GDP – on combined education, health, and social services: 12.2%. This figure is almost less than one half of that reported for Quebec. However, it is important to note that the results given for Alberta are closely related to the scale of its GDP. Thus, when the expenditures of provincial and local administrations are established on a per capita basis, Alberta spends $8,165 on education, health, and social services per capita, whereas Quebec spends $8,824.

If you take out the daycare costs, as also noted in your cite, then Alberta actually spends more than Quebec.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Argus

wyly · December 2, 2012

Alberta's total expenditures are higher than the national average, but clearly not due to social spending.

Alberta could certainly spend more on its citizens, improving employment outcomes for its own people.

Klein crippled our healthcare blowing up and selling off hospitals, it'll take another generation before it's recovered...he guts the system then has the balls to say our healthcare doesn't work, we need to find a "third way"( two tier/private)...