Did you know Alberta once went bankrupt

[westguy]

I applaud the posters who are aware of Alberta's history and the past exploitation of the west, including Alberta. Really, is there anyone who claims seriously that the west was treated fairly by the east before 1930?? It has already been posted that the west was a second class province because they didn't have control over their own resources like the eastern province did. To add insult to injury, Alberta is subsidizing Quebec ( indirectly thru federal equalization payments) to the tune of $8b/yr. and the oilsands is providing immense benefits to the rest of Canada, including Ontario and Quebec, by creating manufacturing needs for the oilsands and jobs by the ROC. I am offended that the selfish and petulant Quebecer's think they should receive more from other provinces to finance their extravagant sociall programs

[jacee]

I'm sick to death of selfish and petulant westerners whining about Quebec. It's pure ethnic prejudice and it's disgusting.

The rich always whine louder.

It's pathetic.

[Guest]

Ethnic prejudice towards Quebec instead of from Quebec towards everyone else?

Well, it's an interesting concept.

[The_Squid]

Ethnic prejudice towards Quebec instead of from Quebec towards everyone else?

Well, it's an interesting concept.

And equally as repugnant.

[Guest]

And equally as repugnant.

Yes, it would be.

[westguy]

Jacee

I am appalled that you assume that anyone opposed to one or more provinces subsidizing another is based on "ethnic prejudice". It sounds like you are attempting to quell the messenger rather than the message. You are entitled to your opinion but not to your own facts. The objective facts are that Quebec has received form the ROC $257b since enforced equalization started in the 50's and they still have a provincial debt of $250b. It says to me that Quebec is unable to manage their finances and rely on ROC to subsidize them. It also says that Quebec politicians play the "profitable federalism" game to the detriment of ROC. During the same time Quebec has sh_t on the ROC and tried to separate from the ROC. I have always found the Quebec culture delightful but not Quebec politics.

[Smallc]

Jacee

I am appalled that you assume that anyone opposed to one or more provinces subsidizing another is based on "ethnic prejudice".

And I don't understand your attitude. Why bother to be a country if we don't share in good fortune, and help each other? Canada is one place. Equalization was set up in recognition of that.

[Guest]

I think the fact that Quebec wants to be another place, all the while taking full advantage of all that the ROC will send her, is what galls.

[westguy]

I appreciate that sometimes a province needs helpand do not oppose the principle. However, Quebec has received $257b over 50 yrs which leads me to believe that they have become reliant on equallization payments,

[westguy]

if Quebec didnt receive the largesse of ROC ( for example, if Quebec did separate and ROC cut them off) Quebec would soon become a third world jurisdiction.

[Smallc]

I think the fact that Quebec wants to be another place, all the while taking full advantage of all that the ROC will send her, is what galls.

Quebec doesn't seem to want to leave, since they haven't actually left.

I appreciate that sometimes a province needs helpand do not oppose the principle. However, Quebec has received $257b over 50 yrs which leads me to believe that they have become reliant on equallization payments,

To bring them up to the average that the system uses, they will probably always be reliant on payments. Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland and Labrador have per capita GDPs that are mind boggling in comparison to most places.

if Quebec didnt receive the largesse of ROC ( for example, if Quebec did separate and ROC cut them off) Quebec would soon become a third world jurisdiction.

That's unlikely. They wouldn't be quite as well off, but they would be like much of Europe in terms of their economy.

[Guest]

Quebec doesn't seem to want to leave, since they haven't actually left.

No, they do seem to want to leave, and they haven't actually left.

[westguy]

Well Europe is now a basket case. Of course Quebec hasn't left - after all they are receiving $8b/yr.

[Smallc]

No, they do seem to want to leave, and they haven't actually left.

They've have two chances to leave, and haven't yet left...ergo, they don't want to leave.

Well Europe is now a basket case.

Not all of Europe...and I'd say you sort of missed the point.

[westguy]

one of us did

[Smallc]

Well, since it was my point...

[Guest]

They've have two chances to leave, and haven't yet left...ergo, they don't want to leave.

dis·in·gen·u·ous/ˌdisinˈjenyo͞oəs/

Adjective: Not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

[Smallc]

No...truth...I hope I don't have to provide you with a definition. Separatist sentiment in Quebec is less than 50%, as it has always been.

[bleeding heart]

Actually, what is disingenuous is the (continually stated) premise that "they"-- Quebeckers--"want to leave," despite the uncontroversial truth that an awful lot of them demonstrably do not--as we know from the democratic mandate.

[Guest]

Actually, what is disingenuous is the (continually stated) premise that "they"-- Quebeckers--"want to leave," despite the uncontroversial truth that an awful lot of them demonstrably do not--as we know from the democratic mandate.

It's not Quebeckers who prevent them from leaving. It's money and the ethnic vote, remember?

[bleeding heart]

It's not Quebeckers who prevent them from leaving. It's money and the ethnic vote, remember?

For anyone who agrees with the nonsense spouted by the knuckledragger...sure!

But most of us don't.

(Though it would appear that the "ethnic vote" remains as much a sore spot for the political right as for the old separatist leader...interestingly.)

Edited November 11, 2012 by bleeding heart

[cybercoma]

Jacee

I am appalled that you assume that anyone opposed to one or more provinces subsidizing another

It has been explained to you time and again on this forum that provinces do not subsidize each other, yet you continue to say it. This stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of how the equalization system works. Provinces do not subsidize each other.

[jacee]

Jacee

I am appalled that you assume that anyone opposed to one or more provinces subsidizing another is based on "ethnic prejudice". It sounds like you are attempting to quell the messenger rather than the message. You are entitled to your opinion but not to your own facts. The objective facts are that Quebec has received form the ROC $257b since enforced equalization started in the 50's and they still have a provincial debt of $250b. It says to me that Quebec is unable to manage their finances and rely on ROC to subsidize them. It also says that Quebec politicians play the "profitable federalism" game to the detriment of ROC. During the same time Quebec has sh_t on the ROC and tried to separate from the ROC. I have always found the Quebec culture delightful but not Quebec politics.

What does equalization say about NL,PEI,NB,NS,MB,SK ... ???

Why focus on QC?

Because it isn't about equalization at all.

It's about resenting francophone people - a certain segment of the population of Quebec - especially the smaller portion of them who express a desire to separate from Canada.

As I said, the resentment flowing from the west is not about equalization at all. It's ethnic prejudice in a thin camouflage of greed for money.

It's also sheer ignorance about the east, esp the size of the population of Quebec and Ontario compared to the ROC, a fact that determines the overall equalization paid out.

So go ahead ... tell me how much you resent paying equalization to ALL of the other provinces ... or do you only resent paying it to Quebec ? And if so why?

Quebec gets the same per capita consideration in the equalization process as any other province.

In my opinion, the western defamation campaign against Quebec is based in

- ignorance of facts (ie, 25% of Canadians live in Quebec)

- arrogance and greed (Did Alberta make the oil, or is that just a lucky break?)

- ethnic prejudice against francophones who seek to preserve their culture.

It's ugly.

[jacee]

I think the fact that Quebec wants to be another place, all the while taking full advantage of all that the ROC will send her, is what galls.

So?

There's separatist sentiment in the west too.

It's a free country ...

And prejudice is ugly, ignorant, greedy, divisive, and destructive ... could destroy Canada ... and deserves only to be stomped out.

So I call it as I see it.

Edited November 12, 2012 by jacee

[Guest]

So?

There's separatist sentiment in the west too.

It's a free country ...

And prejudice is ugly, ignorant, greedy, divisive, and destructive ... could destroy Canada ... and deserves only to be stomped out.

So I call it as I see it.

It would be difficult to stamp out prejudice without laying waste to Quebec. It occurs in all provinces, sure, but nowhere is bigotry so blatant and ignored as Quebec. They even elected an unrepentent bigot for a Premier.