A countries rights on Immigrants and refugees.

[Guest Peeves]

A couple of other threads have been hijacked by those seemingly with an ax to grind on a democratic countries right or obligation to admit candidates for citizenship because of their home countries politics or treatment.

For example (I guess) if a woman may be punished by the laws or religion or abusive regime, we should be offering asylum?

That 'we' have an obligation and no right to judge if it will impact on our taxes or jobs or citizens?

That we have no right to deny someone?

Personally I'm not jingoistic,however, we can't be the compassionate sanctum for the entire world's billions in distress.

Are some here taking the position that Canada or Australia, or America...etc. Should have no criterion for denying entry of foreigners ? Anyone with the ability or means to reach our borders should be automatically accepted?

OR

Is there reasonable expectations that as the host country 'we' set the criteria, conditions, and standards we will accept or deny entry and fix the period necessary before granting citizenship.

Canada has established criteria http://www.theglobea...article4492594/

In some countries Illegal immigration is rampant.

https://docs.google....SbwCGAr8uOpQMJw

[Bonam]

Certain posters have extremist views on immigration. Of course a country has the right to deny immigrants, and of course it should have a duty to make sure that the immigrants it does bring in are beneficial for the nation and its existing citizens.

[Mr.Canada]

We must ensure that immigration applicants are screened thoroughy to keep out the ones who are too sick, too poor, unwilling to work for us, unwilling to pay taxes, etc.

Canada only needs healthy, rich immigrants who will start businesses, pay taxes employ legal Canadians and that really adds something to society.

Canada must keep out the sick ones who only come here to get free healthcare and healthcare payed for by the citizens of this nation and not the dregs of the world.

As PM Harper likes to say God Bless Canada!

[guyser]

We must ensure that immigration applicants are screened thoroughy to keep out the ones who are too sick, too poor, unwilling to work for us, unwilling to pay taxes, etc.

Already do.

Canada only needs healthy, rich immigrants who will start businesses, pay taxes employ legal Canadians and that really adds something to society.

FOr the most part, rich dont leave, Ambitious ones who want to do so though.

Canada must keep out the sick ones who only come here to get free healthcare and healthcare payed for by the citizens of this nation and not the dregs of the world.

Already do.

So much for that huh?

As PM Harper likes to say God Bless Canada!

Ugh.

[Guest]

If Canada only let in rich immigrants I'd still be in the UK.

[Mr.Canada]

If Canada only let in rich immigrants I'd still be in the UK.

No I'm not only rich ones. I'm saying ones that are worthy of becoming Canadian. Some immigrants are the worlds garbage yet we take them in. While we take them in they sit around on welfare and disability. Some rape our women and kill our children or deal drugs and shoot at us is the thanks we get. it really gives the good immigrants a bad name. It's terrible that all immigrants get painted wit t he same brush but the line must be drawn somewhere.

Our laws are too lax and some people come to Canada and laugh at our laws. If they rape a child or grandmother they know they'll be out in a couple years maximum so they don't care.

Obviously not all but the number that commit crimes really make it bad for all of them.

[jacee]

No I'm not only rich ones. I'm saying ones that are worthy of becoming Canadian. Some immigrants are the worlds garbage yet we take them in. While we take them in they sit around on welfare and disability. Some rape our women and kill our children or deal drugs and shoot at us is the thanks we get. it really gives the good immigrants a bad name. It's terrible that all immigrants get painted wit t he same brush but the line must be drawn somewhere.

Our laws are too lax and some people come to Canada and laugh at our laws. If they rape a child or grandmother they know they'll be out in a couple years maximum so they don't care.

Obviously not all but the number that commit crimes really make it bad for all of them.

That's a lot of complaints. Can you provide any facts at all to back them up?

Is it possible that you are experiencing an irrational fear of people you know nothing about?

Edited October 18, 2012 by jacee

[Mr.Canada]

That's a lot of complaints. Can you provide any facts at all to back them up?

Is it possible that you are experiencing an irrational fear of people you know nothing about?

All people who come here to live should be grateful that I allow them to stay in my country and should treat me and all others like me akin to a master and they the underling. But those who come here are not grateful and are instead spiteful and full of hate for me and those like me. They should be expelled immediately.

[jacee]

[jacee]

A couple of other threads have been hijacked by those seemingly with an ax to grind on a democratic countries right or obligation to admit candidates for citizenship because of their home countries politics or treatment.

For example (I guess) if a woman may be punished by the laws or religion or abusive regime, we should be offering asylum?

That 'we' have an obligation and no right to judge if it will impact on our taxes or jobs or citizens?

That we have no right to deny someone?

Personally I'm not jingoistic,however, we can't be the compassionate sanctum for the entire world's billions in distress.

Are some here taking the position that Canada or Australia, or America...etc. Should have no criterion for denying entry of foreigners ? Anyone with the ability or means to reach our borders should be automatically accepted?

OR

Is there reasonable expectations that as the host country 'we' set the criteria, conditions, and standards we will accept or deny entry and fix the period necessary before granting citizenship.

Canada has established criteria http://www.theglobea...article4492594/

In some countries Illegal immigration is rampant.

https://docs.google....SbwCGAr8uOpQMJw

Peeves do you think you could possibly limit yourself to one xenophobic thread per day ... or less? You're spamming.

[Bonam]

Peeves do you think you could possibly limit yourself to one xenophobic thread per day ... or less? You're spamming.

Just because it's a topic you're uncomfortable with doesn't make it spam.

[dre]

Certain posters have extremist views on immigration.

I know! I saw one guy talking about the government making morality tests!

Edited October 18, 2012 by dre

[Mr.Canada]

I know! I saw one guy talking about the government making morality tests!

Immigration is out of control. Canada doesn't need 300,000 immigrants per year forever. We need 10,000 skilled workers a year. Ones that can pay their own way and aren't a nuisance to everyone else. Please PM Harper slam the door shut, we're full and we cannot take it anymore. We're scared of the takeover. I don't want to be a minority.

[bleeding heart]

All people who come here to live should be grateful that I allow them to stay in my country and should treat me and all others like me akin to a master and they the underling.

Well, you'll have to work out this formulation with poster bcsapper.

Oddly, I have my doubts that he'll indulge you on this.

[scribblet]

Wilfrid Laurier ideas on Immigrants and being a Canadian in 1907 still apply today, or should.

'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes a Canadian and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else,

for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin.

But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet a Canadian, and nothing but a Canadian...

There can be no divided allegiance here.

Any man who says he is a Canadian, but something else also, isn't a Canadian at all.

We have room for but one flag, the Canadian flag...

And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the Canadian people.'

Wilfrid Laurier 1907

Edited October 18, 2012 by scribblet

[Moonbox]

That's a lot of complaints. Can you provide any facts at all to back them up?

People need to stop asking for facts/citations for stupid crap like this. He's saying that we end up with a bunch of immigrant scumbags. He has given no percentages or solid facts. He's merely stating that there are bad immigrants. To ask for 'facts' to back this up implies that you do not believe that there are scum immigrants who make it into the country. Do you think that they're all top notch human beings?

If you had a problem with his statement, then put it into words. He made an almost purely rhetorical statement and there's lots of things to question or criticize, but asking for facts to back up his hyperbole is dumb .

[cybercoma]

Certain posters have extremist views on immigration. Of course a country has the right to deny immigrants, and of course it should have a duty to make sure that the immigrants it does bring in are beneficial for the nation and its existing citizens.

I don't think anyone denies this. I support the NDP and I don't even deny this. It's not a meaningful point in any way.

[jacee]

I don't think anyone denies this. I support the NDP and I don't even deny this. It's not a meaningful point in any way.

The only point I was trying to make is that the immigration system does select people appropriately, but the refugee system is different and people fleeing war, famine, etc. have different needs.

Ie, I think some posters were criticizing "immigration" incorrectly.

But I think it's been clarified now.

[Michael Hardner]

People need to stop asking for facts/citations for stupid crap like this. He's saying that we end up with a bunch of immigrant scumbags. He has given no percentages or solid facts. He's merely stating that there are bad immigrants. To ask for 'facts' to back this up implies that you do not believe that there are scum immigrants who make it into the country. Do you think that they're all top notch human beings?

We're not supposed to be just making general (negative) statements about groups of people on here - how does that promote discussion ?

If you had a problem with his statement, then put it into words. He made an almost purely rhetorical statement and there's lots of things to question or criticize, but asking for facts to back up his hyperbole is dumb .

"Unnamed immigrant group sucks !" isn't discussion - it's just sloganeering of a bad kind.

[guyser]

All people who come here to live should be grateful that I allow them to stay in my country and should treat me and all others like me akin to a master and they the underling. But those who come here are not grateful and are instead spiteful and full of hate for me and those like me. They should be expelled immediately.

Stop trolling this BS. Youve admitted it before and its obvious you dont believe a word of that,

[Moonbox]

We're not supposed to be just making general (negative) statements about groups of people on here - how does that promote discussion ?

"Unnamed immigrant group sucks !" isn't discussion - it's just sloganeering of a bad kind.

I wasn't supporting this kind of statement. You've pretty much nailed it.

I was taking issue with the brain-dead tendency of people on this forum to demand support or citations when it's not necessary, either because the argument is weak and easily refuted or because it's just a vague, general statement that doesn't require one. Responses like the one I quoted show that the poster is either too lazy or too dumb to think up a real argument. Asking for links/support proves nothing unless someone's written something specific that the reader either has reason to believe is not true or just didn't know anything about and wants to learn about it.

[Guest Peeves]

Peeves do you think you could possibly limit yourself to one xenophobic thread per day ... or less? You're spamming.

Certainly , just as soon as a post of your indicates you have reached the age of puberty, or, your voice changes, whichever comes first.

Meantime if you can't come up with a sensible response, ask a friend for help..oh that's too bad. Then ask your teacher. Put your hand up. Now she sees you, ok tell her you need go potty then you have a problem with a pet Peeve. Good lad.

Spam Good! jacee belong in can.

[Guest Peeves]

I wasn't supporting this kind of statement. You've pretty much nailed it.

I was taking issue with the brain-dead tendency of people on this forum to demand support or citations when it's not necessary, either because the argument is weak and easily refuted or because it's just a vague, general statement that doesn't require one. Responses like the one I quoted show that the poster is either too lazy or too dumb to think up a real argument. Asking for links/support proves nothing unless someone's written something specific that the reader either has reason to believe is not true or just didn't know anything about and wants to learn about it.

One poster that shall remain unnamed constantly asks for proof on issues and positions and opinions that require no proof.

Of course that seems in their eyes to be reasonable simply because they are too dense to realize what they are asking is senseless.

If someone opines, that's their position as an OPINION!

If on the other hand a claim is made, it should have some sort of supportive evidence.

Now, in my opinion (and apparently that of the USA and the Harper government), our immigration and refugee laws were too lax. That resulted in tougher border requirements for cross border trips. Our government under harper through minister Kenny, have tightened up the immigration and refugee policies. That's a fact that any could look up. I suggest that I am recounting details available and of common knowledge. To ask me to prove my position would not be necessary IN MY OPINION.

However , at a loss for reasonable response, there is one here (at least) that would demand proof. Which of course I would not go aboutdoing, because I maintain the position is common knowledge.

So on the topic of immigration. I say, "Thousands of Canadian immigrants are to be deported for fraud." I mean accepted immigrants that committed fraud, and that have been outed, and have been exposed. It was detailed in the news media over the last month.

Don't ask for proof, it's a factual account by our ministry. Doubt my statement...? Look it up.

Additionaly many countries, the USA, Greece , Spain, Australia and so on are tightening their immigration laws and making efforts to deport illegal 'immigrants.'

That's factually supported by links.

"https://www.google.c...rted for fraud.

I am asking HERE, if there are those that think Canada (and other Western democracies) should open the flood gates to those that suffer under regimes or whatever simply because they are to some degree facing suffering, facing possible dowry murder, facing sharia law, facing honor killings, facing fgm, facing human rights deprivation, being demeaned as wives or female children.

Know I know all this is happening outside of Canada and,that in some cases ifs brought here as immigrant cultural baggage. I know it's sad, it's terrible, it's horrendous even, when brutality is often common place.

Ok should Canada have open sanctuary to ALL and ANY regardless our countries needs?

I maintain there is insufficient room, or health care or funding to simply accept those potential or actual victims that some here seem to think should be our obligation. Those same idealists have no idea how to manage that nor the numbers they are talking about.

So I asked what THEIR expectations are. So far I have nothing but more smoke and mirrors from the 'compassionate Canadian corp.'

If you have no position, simply go away. If you want to criticize countries that establish who should be a suitable immigrant, then tell us who, how and why. Because I don't feel guilty. I feel sad and wish it were other wise, but Africa is Africa, Saudi Arabia is Saudi Arabia, and Afghani women along with those others are simply too many in numbers to flood our western democracies.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Peeves

[jacee]

Dp

Edited October 19, 2012 by jacee

[jacee]

"All and any" isn't in the current refugee policy.

You should check it out.