jacee Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Not Democracy When our Prime Minister can sign a massive give-away of Canadian resources and rights and rush it through Parliament without discussion, debate or a vote, do we still live in a democracy, or do we now live in a dictatorship? I am referring to the Canada-China Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement. It was signed by Prime Minister Harper in Russia on September 9, made public on September 26, and is set for automatic approval on October 31. No discussion. No debate. No vote. This is an unprecedented way to deal with the most significant trade agreement to be signed by Canada since NAFTA. Perhaps the speed and secrecy is to make sure Canadians don't have time to find out what it is really all about. … This Agreement guarantees that Chinese state-owned companies operating in Canada will be treated exactly the same as Canadian companies. They will be able to sue the government of Canada over any decisions that limit or reduce their "expectations of profits", and will be able to claim damages against Canada for decisions made at the municipal, provincial, or federal level. Decisions made in our courts can be reversed if they merely threaten to reduce profits of Chinese companies operating in Canada. Disputes won't be settled in court, but in secret arbitration hearings, so future governments may be forced to change our laws without us ever knowing why. It gives China a great deal, without offering Canada much at all in return. And most importantly, the Canada-China Investment Agreement requires that if, in the future, Canada wants to reduce Chinese access to our natural resources (and every one of our natural resources is covered under this agreement, including water), then Canada can only do so to the extent that we limit our own use of those natural resources. Nobody who really cares about future generations of Canadians would agree to that According to Andrew Nikiforuk, writing in The Tyee, "the treaty would give Sinopec, one of the big Chinese backers of the Northern Gateway pipeline, the right to sue the government of British Columbia if it blocks the project. Sinopec could also demand that only Chinese labour and materials be used on the pipeline. Moreover the treaty gives Chinese state owned companies "the right to full protection and security from public opposition." HO-LEEEEEE SELLOUT!!! Will all the corporocrats here please explain for our grandkids why Canada got sold to China under Harper's watch? They'll be wanting to know why they do without WATER, oil and other resources while it's being shipped to China for private profit of a few. UN-FRIGGIN-BELIEVABLE! !!! WHO THE HELL IS HARPER WORKING FOR?????? Edited October 16, 2012 by jacee Quote
cybercoma Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 UN-FRIGGIN-BELIEVABLE! !!! WHO THE HELL IS HARPER WORKING FOR?????? The highest bidder. Quote
Fletch 27 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 Hes workin for ME and the majority that voted him in! Thats right... the MAJORITY! This Opinion Piece with Comment like: "Sinopec could also demand that only Chinese labour and materials be used on the pipeline." Has been proven FALSE already... Both Ellis Don and PCL have already been in duscussion on allocating resources "should" a pileline be granted rights.. Yup, Now tell me if Ellis Don is a big bad "chinese" company? Stop the crying and lets get on with the economy..... Quote
Topaz Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 I wonder if ALL of Harper's supporters really agree with what he does or just votes for him because he's our guy, the West has won! What about the recent meat mess, do the Tories that got sick, say, it's not his fault, we must support the western PM no matter what? I listened to a Chinese man last night, and he say China is getting strong and that one day it will have economy connections to most countires and have a stronger military and that the USA is slowing sinking. Well, China owns the US because they keep borrowing money and if Harper is doing the same then one day we'll be speaking China and eating stir fry. BTW, Harper will be able to leave in 2015, taking his 300,000 yearly pension, so why would he want to stay? Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 I wonder if ALL of Harper's supporters really agree with what he does or just votes for him because he's our guy, the West has won! Many of Harper's "supporters" vote for him and his party because the other parties/leaders have been utterly incompetent in comparison, not because they like the guy. That said, interesting op-ed Jacee, never heard of this but would like to see all sides to this story. Why would Harper give up such a deal "without offering Canada much at all in return"? It makes no sense, what's the rest of the story? Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Guest Peeves Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 Many of Harper's "supporters" vote for him and his party because the other parties/leaders have been utterly incompetent in comparison, not because they like the guy. That said, interesting op-ed Jacee, never heard of this but would like to see all sides to this story. Why would Harper give up such a deal "without offering Canada much at all in return"? It makes no sense, what's the rest of the story? I've found in Harper bashing there's no Right side of any story, just the left. Obviously any agreement was studied and is a positive for Canada. Wouldn't make sense otherwise. I certainly won't hold my breath for any accurate critique of our government from any with a bias. I have criticisms of our government, but, I seldom decide to post them since it's so left leaning now I don't want it to tip and fall on someone with rational thought or balanced opinion. Quote
Topaz Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 Most voters DON"T for the leadership they vote for the "NICE" person at home, THEIR MP, but there's also those who vote for the party no matter who the leader is. Quote
jacee Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 Many of Harper's "supporters" vote for him and his party because the other parties/leaders have been utterly incompetent in comparison, not because they like the guy. That said, interesting op-ed Jacee, never heard of this but would like to see all sides to this story. Why would Harper give up such a deal "without offering Canada much at all in return"? It makes no sense, what's the rest of the story? Here's a clue ... An Initial EA [Environmental Assessment] of the Canada-China FIPA was completed in January 2008 2 . The Government of Canada opened the Initial EA for public comments from February 20 to March 21, 2008. No public comments were received. In the light of the Initial EA’s conclusions regarding the unlikelihood of significant environmental impacts in Canada, preparation of a Draft EA was subsequently deemed to be unnecessary. http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/china-chine/finalEA-china-chine-EEfinale.aspx?lang=eng&view=d Anybody remember a press release, etc, asking for input? Looks like it was kept below the public radar. Quote
jacee Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Obviously any agreement was studied and is a positive for Canada. Wouldn't make sense otherwise. :lol: Ya, for some rich people's pockets ... pockets that feed Harper's political ambitions. The credibility of your political opinions just bottomed out. Edited October 16, 2012 by jacee Quote
CPCFTW Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 This is almost as bad as Bush orchestrating 9-11 to start a war in Iraq to please his financial backers in the weapons industry. Those damn evil kitten-eating conservatives! Vote NDP! Quote
g_bambino Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 When our Prime Minister can sign a massive give-away of Canadian resources and rights and rush it through Parliament without discussion, debate or a vote, do we still live in a democracy, or do we now live in a dictatorship? The author appears to be unaware that the House of Commons is elected. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 It's a democracy alright. A severely broken one where less than 40% of the popular vote gives you unimpeded power over legislative decisions. Quote
Guest Peeves Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 It's a democracy alright. A severely broken one where less than 40% of the popular vote gives you unimpeded power over legislative decisions. You mean where our government got a majority support and losers whine and whine the same old tune. Our government is admired by the knowledgeable domestically and abroad and losers make generalizations with no content or merit. Personally I accept the fact that our country and government are generally praised. Quote
kraychik Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 It seems to be a ridiculous op-ed without any substantiation of its claims. The full text of the agreement can be found here: http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/fipa-apie/china-text-chine.aspx?lang=eng&view=d Predictably, jacee won't support any of the points she just parroted with this lazy copy-paste post by actually referencing language in the text. She probably didn't even read the entire op-ed. More quality discourse on MLW, it seems. Quote
g_bambino Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 It's a democracy alright. A severely broken one where less than 40% of the popular vote gives you unimpeded power over legislative decisions. The author didn't ask if Canada was a "broken" democracy or not; he/she asked if Canada was a dictatorship or a democracy. The answer is quite obviously the latter. Quote
kraychik Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 The author didn't ask if Canada was a "broken" democracy or not; he/she asked if Canada was a dictatorship or a democracy. The answer is quite obviously the latter. Clearly cybercoma would prefer what we saw with the former Soviet Union, where we witnessed 99% voter turnout and near universal support for five-year economic plans. Quote
wyly Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 Hes workin for ME and the majority that voted him in! Thats right... the MAJORITY! I think I was in grade 3 when I learned majority meant 50% + 1....that's right... a majority wasn't 39% back then and still isn't Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 Not Democracy UN-FRIGGIN-BELIEVABLE! !!! WHO THE HELL IS HARPER WORKING FOR?????? what I find is unbelievable he goes to the Congo criticises their human rights and refuses to meet with the president yet the hypocrite will go to china crawl on his knees and blow the president and say bugger all about chinese human rights abuses... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Guest Peeves Posted October 16, 2012 Report Posted October 16, 2012 what I find is unbelievable he goes to the Congo criticises their human rights and refuses to meet with the president yet the hypocrite will go to china crawl on his knees and blow the president and say bugger all about chinese human rights abuses... So he shouldn't have criticized Congo human rights and you would be happy. Quote
wyly Posted October 17, 2012 Report Posted October 17, 2012 So he shouldn't have criticized Congo human rights and you would be happy. So he doesn't criticize Chinese human rights and you're happy... hypocrisy must an ingrained personality trait of the right Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
cybercoma Posted October 17, 2012 Report Posted October 17, 2012 You mean where our government got a majority support They didn't get a majority support. They got less than 40% support. They got a plurality. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 17, 2012 Report Posted October 17, 2012 The author didn't ask if Canada was a "broken" democracy or not; he/she asked if Canada was a dictatorship or a democracy. The answer is quite obviously the latter. Obviously. I guess. But even you admit that a worrying amount of power has been concentrated in the PMO, particularly since Chrétien. Quote
eyeball Posted October 17, 2012 Report Posted October 17, 2012 I wonder if ALL of Harper's supporters really agree with what he does or just votes for him because he's our guy Harper could be busted for raping a 4 year old on Capital Hill and still count on being re-elected. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
g_bambino Posted October 17, 2012 Report Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Obviously. I guess. But even you admit that a worrying amount of power has been concentrated in the PMO, particularly since Chrétien. I certainly do. But, even with the changes that've taken place over the past 40 years in the relationship between the Cabinet and parliament, there's still a huge gap between what this country is and a dictatorship. Those who think the country is a dictatorship are in desperate need of some perspective. [ed.: c/e] Edited October 17, 2012 by g_bambino Quote
Smallc Posted October 17, 2012 Report Posted October 17, 2012 So he doesn't criticize Chinese human rights and you're happy Ummm, Harper has criticized China's human rights record more than once. Quote
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