Do we need to raise the OW/ODSP rates?

[On Guard for Thee]

And, as I pointed out, it is enshrined federally but It is administered provincially with transfer payments from the federal government. And once again, it's not free, it's social.

[bleeding heart]

You guys are missing the only point being attempted: Canada Sucks. All else is bluff.

Trolling is for mockery, not for debate. Fortunately, it tends to mock itself through obsessive repetition.

Edited January 10, 2014 by bleeding heart

[Michael Hardner]

b_c this thread isn't about healthcare. Stop derailing.

From your link:

http://m.thestar.com/#!/gta/ontario-welfare-reforms-roll-out-this-month/6931a4d93b0235aae82eb953df4f6f3d

Sept 2013:

... her monthly $1075 Ontario Disability Support Program (ODSP) cheque ...

The new $626 monthly rate for a single person on welfare is still less than the $663 that same person would have received 20 years ago. Inflation has increased 44% since then.

Those are the base rates.

Not enough to live on, imo.

Based on inflation, the current OW rate should be about $955.

.

That's the Star giving this information, not the Ontario government.

[bush_cheney2004]

And, as I pointed out, it is enshrined federally but It is administered provincially with transfer payments from the federal government. And once again, it's not free, it's social.

Great...then we agree..it is not a right and never has been a right. Ditto OW/ODSP. These are all qualified and means tested entitlements.

[On Guard for Thee]

Great...then we agree..it is not a right and never has been a right. Ditto OW/ODSP. These are all qualified and means tested entitlements.

The only "means test" is you have to be a citizen. That's it.

[jacee]

bush_cheney2004, on 10 Jan 2014 - 12:04 PM, Great...then we agree..it is not a right and never has been a right.

Ditto OW/ODSP. These are all qualified and means tested entitlements.

The only "means test" is you have to be a citizen. That's it.

b_c is trolling his anti-universal health care US Republican agenda here ... derailing this thread about OW & ODSP. Don't feed the troll.

Interesting that since I posted the actual OW and ODSP rates ($606 & $1025), all the grumps are pretty quiet!

You can't even afford an apartment on either of those.

Edited January 11, 2014 by jacee

[On Guard for Thee]

b_c is trolling his anti-universal health care US Republican agenda here ... derailing this thread about OW & ODSP. Don't feed the troll.

Interesting that since I posted the actual OW and ODSP rates ($606 & $1025), all the grumps are pretty quiet!

You can't even afford an apartment on either of those.

Right you are. And no more troll feeding. Let me just say it is uplifting to hear from someone who understands the difference between "free" and "universal" with regard to health care in Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

The only "means test" is you have to be a citizen. That's it.

No...this is getting to be a habit with you. These entitlement programs (not rights) cater to means tested citizens, permanent residents, refugee claimants, or convention refugees.

Edited January 11, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[jacee]

No...this is getting to be a habit with you. These entitlement programs (not rights) cater to means tested citizens, permanent residents, refugee claimants, or convention refugees.

[On Guard for Thee]

Can you explain what "means test" is according to you.

[hitops]

No...this is getting to be a habit with you. These entitlement programs (not rights) cater to means tested citizens, permanent residents, refugee claimants, or convention refugees.

I'm a physician in the Canadian system. It's not means-tested in any way. It's far from free, as we pay for it through (mostly provincial) taxes, but it is much cheaper per person than in the US. There are also other costs not covered by the government like many prescription drugs or your travel costs for treatment. In rural areas, those cost can be substantial.

Also just want to clarify, it's not socialized health care. It's socialized insurance, through a single payer, and hospitals are government funded. But most physicians bill per unit of work, so their work volume translates into their paycheck. Fees are however set by the government.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm a physician in the Canadian system. It's not means-tested in any way. It's far from free, as we pay for it through (mostly provincial) taxes, but it is much cheaper per person than in the US. There are also other costs not covered by the government like many prescription drugs or your travel costs for treatment. In rural areas, those cost can be substantial.

Understood, but this topic's OW/ODSP are means tested in Ontario. Premiums for health care insurance are also waived at lower income levels according to family size, so that is also "means testing".

Also just want to clarify, it's not socialized health care. It's socialized insurance, through a single payer, and hospitals are government funded. But most physicians bill per unit of work, so their work volume translates into their paycheck. Fees are however set by the government.

Yes, but only for covered procedures, and this is not uniform across all provinces.

[jacee]

Can you explain what "means test" is according to you.

Evaluation of your finances to see if you need benefits - testing your 'means'.

OW: You qualify if you have no other means of support.

ODSP: You qualify if you have a disability that curtails your ability to earn, AND

have income and assets below certain levels.

Edited January 14, 2014 by jacee

[jacee]

Understood, but this topic's OW/ODSP are means tested in Ontario.

True.

Premiums for health care insurance are also waived at lower income levels according to family size, so that is also "means testing".

False. Means testing only determines who pays what premiums.

You get the same benefits - medical care - regardless of means.

Your trolling, derailing, conflating unrelated topics to push your US Republican agenda on Canadians is pathetically transparent and unwelcome.

Try the Obamacare thread.

Edited January 14, 2014 by jacee

[jacee]

jacee, on 08 Jan 2014 - 1:22 PM, said:

.From your link:http://m.thestar.com...82eb953df4f6f3d

Sept 2013:... her monthly $1075 Ontario Disability Support Program (ODSP) cheque ...The new $626 monthly rate for a single person on welfare (OW) ...

That's the Star giving this information, not the Ontario government.

True. You think they're lying?

These seem to be examples of standard base rates for single people.

The actual rates vary a bit from one person to the next depending on circumstances. The government uses formulas to calculate benefits, different for OW and ODSP but taking into consideration food and shelter costs in that area, special diet needs, equipment/rehab needs, other income/assets, dependents, etc.

Edited January 14, 2014 by jacee

[bush_cheney2004]

True.

Of course it's true. That's why I typed it in the first place.

Your trolling, derailing, conflating unrelated topics to push your US Republican agenda on Canadians is pathetically transparent and unwelcome.

Try the Obamacare thread.

Use the ignore feature...it's free (no means testing) !

[On Guard for Thee]

 

Evaluation of your finances to see if you need benefits - testing your 'means'.

OW: You qualify if you have no other means of support.

ODSP: You qualify if you have a disability that curtails your ability to earn, AND

have income and assets below certain levels.

 

Yes I get that. I was replying to BC's assumption that there was means testing to the general system of health care in Canada, which I see a doctor has confirmed. I apologize for allowing myself to get taken off topic back then.

[jacee]

  

Yes I get that. I was replying to BC's assumption that there was means testing to the general system of health care in Canada, which I see a doctor has confirmed. I apologize for allowing myself to get taken off topic back then.

Health care premiums change with income level. But health care benefits are the same regardless of income.

b_c pushes his own agenda no matter what the topic.

[On Guard for Thee]

 

Health care premiums change with income level. But health care benefits are the same regardless of income.

b_c pushes his own agenda no matter what the topic.

 

I get that as well.

[jacee]

Use the ignore feature...it's free (no means testing) !

Nah ... I prefer to use the forum rules, and report you.

http://mapleleafweb.com/forum-weblog-rules

It is also important that you stay on topic and keep the discussion focused. If the thread begins to wonder off into a new topic area, start a new thread and continue the discussion under the new thread.

...

If you are not bringing anything new to the argument, then do not say anything at all.Some messages are not so much offensive as simply nuisance value.

[RopeTreeBranch]

I live on $730 a month in a geared to income apartment. I eat one meal a day so I don't run out of food here is my diet for my contentment.

Morning Smoothie: 4 cups of water

1 Tablespoon of Epsom Salts

2 Tablespoons of Coco Powder

Dash of Cinnamon

1 Tablespoons of Hemp Protien Powder

1/2 teaspoon of Potassium Powder

1 teaspoon of Food Grade Diatomaecous Earth

Daily Meal: Boiled Veggies and Chic Peas with Coconut Oil and Sea Salt

What I've understood about the system of Rich and Poor is that the rich cannot be rich unless there is a considerable amount of poverty. Within the year 2015-2017 people will be committing suicide by hanging as a revolt against the Government. They will know that being an infinite spirit is more fulfilling then being a biological body that is restricted by a system set up by greedy inbreed communities, snobby people that think their shit don't stink and Government behaviors of fear based greed. Kathleen Wynne probably knows this and covers her face periodically from time to time as she looks herself in the mirror.

Suicide will not be through sadness or oppression it will be the cause of a unsustainable system and The Ontario Government continuing a flawed system.

Telling a person that they are not working hard enough, to pick up their feet, quit asking for a hand out, get a job, get a life you loser, you bum, why would I help you, your nothing, your not worth it is basically blaming the problem on them when it has nothing to do with them.

It is a system created by the Government, as all jobs are shipped overseas for cheaper labor such as sweat-shops for making goods for Wal-Mart etc etc. Civil Jobs are being cut down gradually that soon even a bus driver is going to be paid below minimum wadge. But we gotta keep positive right????

So keep watching TV, drink lots of Beer, smoke a joint and shop at Wal-Mart that way everthing will be fine!!!

I know that my body is starving but my spirit is happy. I cannot ignore that my biological life is going to be extremely short as so many others will be the same. Receiving love and expressing love is why we are here in a human body before we become infinite beings.

I always say that $730 a month is like 8 pack of crayons "It's what you do with the colors that are given to you"

Take Care Folks oxox

[socialist]

I live on $730 a month in a geared to income apartment. I eat one meal a day so I don't run out of food here is my diet for my contentment.

Morning Smoothie: 4 cups of water

1 Tablespoon of Epsom Salts

2 Tablespoons of Coco Powder

Dash of Cinnamon

1 Tablespoons of Hemp Protien Powder

1/2 teaspoon of Potassium Powder

1 teaspoon of Food Grade Diatomaecous Earth

Daily Meal: Boiled Veggies and Chic Peas with Coconut Oil and Sea Salt

What I've understood about the system of Rich and Poor is that the rich cannot be rich unless there is a considerable amount of poverty. Within the year 2015-2017 people will be committing suicide by hanging as a revolt against the Government. They will know that being an infinite spirit is more fulfilling then being a biological body that is restricted by a system set up by greedy inbreed communities, snobby people that think their shit don't stink and Government behaviors of fear based greed. Kathleen Wynne probably knows this and covers her face periodically from time to time as she looks herself in the mirror.

Suicide will not be through sadness or oppression it will be the cause of a unsustainable system and The Ontario Government continuing a flawed system.

Telling a person that they are not working hard enough, to pick up their feet, quit asking for a hand out, get a job, get a life you loser, you bum, why would I help you, your nothing, your not worth it is basically blaming the problem on them when it has nothing to do with them.

It is a system created by the Government, as all jobs are shipped overseas for cheaper labor such as sweat-shops for making goods for Wal-Mart etc etc. Civil Jobs are being cut down gradually that soon even a bus driver is going to be paid below minimum wadge. But we gotta keep positive right????

So keep watching TV, drink lots of Beer, smoke a joint and shop at Wal-Mart that way everthing will be fine!!!

I know that my body is starving but my spirit is happy. I cannot ignore that my biological life is going to be extremely short as so many others will be the same. Receiving love and expressing love is why we are here in a human body before we become infinite beings.

I always say that $730 a month is like 8 pack of crayons "It's what you do with the colors that are given to you"

Take Care Folks oxox

Your post is a good reminder of how neo-liberalism is destroying society. It's all about profits at anyone's expense. It's too bad that the non-thinkers are more concerned with acceptable oppression in the form of a silly tournament called March Madness than in the plight of their fellow human beings. People are asleep and have been asleep for a long time. This forum is a perfect example. People wasting their lives arguing back and forth, while contributing nothing useful to society. We have been manipulated to think how they want us to think. Wake up!

[Ash74]

Your post is a good reminder of how neo-liberalism is destroying society. It's all about profits at anyone's expense. It's too bad that the non-thinkers are more concerned with acceptable oppression in the form of a silly tournament called March Madness than in the plight of their fellow human beings. People are asleep and have been asleep for a long time. This forum is a perfect example. People wasting their lives arguing back and forth, while contributing nothing useful to society. We have been manipulated to think how they want us to think. Wake up!

Uhmmmmmmm. You are on here alot. Irony

So all of us discussing topics and sharing points of views is wrong?

So you disagree with free will

Freedom to worship

Freedom of speech

Yeah we all feel so greatful that a mind like yours could be educating the young.

[socialist]

Uhmmmmmmm. You are on here alot. Irony

So all of us discussing topics and sharing points of views is wrong?

So you disagree with free will

Freedom to worship

Freedom of speech

Yeah we all feel so greatful that a mind like yours could be educating the young.

I think we have them fooled, ash.

[Ash74]

I think we have them fooled, ash.

Sorry I don't follow