Do we need to raise the OW/ODSP rates?

[jacee]

I believe the OW/ODSP rates are more than ample.

Do you know what the rates are?

You are getting payed for doing nothing.

I have to give up 40+ hours a week to support my family and then I am taxed a small amount to pay for your lazy ass. Thats slavery!

"slavery"?

That's ridiculous.

Yes there maybe a legitamit reason why some people are on walfare, but those people are not on for long.

You're absolutely right, and I read once that that short-timers account for more than 80% of welfare recipients.

I believe everyone can work!

Really? Where are all these employers you know of? I tried to help a bright 20 year old without a high school diploma get a summer job making milkshakes. They said they hire PhD students!

At any given time, there will be people who simply can't get a job. Currently, anyone who gets laid off after 50 years of age is very unlikely to get hired anywhere.

Those on disablity can do something worth while and employers should be encouraged to hire these people.

I am forced daily to impliment special equipment and designs to acoomindate the disabled and therefore the disabled should be able to work.

You're talking about physical disabilities and of course some can work, and some can't due to health complications - catheters, chronic pain, etc.

Same with people with mental health disabilities - some can work and some simply can't.

People should be given a hand up! Not a Hand Out!

Totally agree.

[AngusThermopyle]

Really Jacee. You couldn't get this guy a job making milkshakes? Where was this? Around here there are quite a few jobs going. Where the wife and I work they even offer a $100.00 bonus to anyone who refers a new hire to the company. They aren't alone in offering incentives for new employees either, quite a few places around here have similar programs in effect. You must live in a very impoverished part of the province. As for education most of our new people are high school dropouts, maybe your friend should move to this neck of the woods.

[jacee]

...

He didn't like going to work everyday though so he quit. Once again, do you believe people who make choices such as this should be more generously rewarded for doing so?

Fortunately, even if the rates do go up a bit, welfare will never afford him the lifestyle he wants, so maybe he'll eventually clue in and get a job.

I know welfare does eventually crack down on longer time employable recipients and require them to attend job readiness sessions, do resumes and apply for jobs, do volunteer placements, etc and they will suspend their benefits if they fail to attend.

The system won't always be as easy to scam as they might hope.

[jacee]

Really Jacee. You couldn't get this guy a job making milkshakes? Where was this? Around here there are quite a few jobs going. Where the wife and I work they even offer a $100.00 bonus to anyone who refers a new hire to the company. They aren't alone in offering incentives for new employees either, quite a few places around here have similar programs in effect. You must live in a very impoverished part of the province. As for education most of our new people are high school dropouts, maybe your friend should move to this neck of the woods.

Girl actually, and no they wouldn't even give her an application.

I'm sure you're telling the truth. So am I. Some people can't get a job. Some people need welfare and education/training first.

Edited January 4, 2014 by jacee

[AngusThermopyle]

That's most unfortunate, it must be a really job scarce area you live in.

As an update to what I was saying about scammers I checked on the wife's son. The new thing he and his friends are trying is scamming multiple gift cards from the food card give away. You know, the one in Toronto to help people replace spoilt/lost food from the ice storm. They're trying to get as many as they can and resell them at half value. He was complaining that there weren't enough because he could only get two. As I said earlier there are people who will always lie and cheat to get what they want, including social assistance.

[Michael Hardner]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=ow+odsp+ontario+rates&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA556CA557&oq=ow+odsp+ontario+rates&aqs=chrome..69i57.10925j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8#es_sm=119&espv=210&q=ow+odsp+rates+2014

Jacee's very basic question (what are the rates) seems to be very difficult to answer.

I have experienced this before, and it's astonishing to me that the government neglects to give people the basic tools to behave as a public - ie. give them information to make a decision.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I have experienced this before, and it's astonishing to me that the government neglects to give people the basic tools to behave as a public - ie. give them information to make a decision.

Agreed....I am having the same difficulty trying to find specific tax revenue streams and income levels for "free" provincial and territory health care.

Edited January 5, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[On Guard for Thee]

Agreed....I am having the same difficulty trying to find specific tax revenue streams and income levels for "free" provincial and territory health care.

Income levels have absolutely zippidy doo dah to do with health care premiums in Canada. Some provinces have a monthly payment, mine is the price of a quart of single malt. Others tack a percent on the sales tax and charge no fee. You can make 10k a year, or 500k a year up here and it makes no difference. And I can move from province to province at will and noone can ask me if I have a "pre-existing condition" with an eye to banning my health care. You see, we take care of each other up here. you gus call it socialism so you can shudder under the bed hoping it's only the "other" guy that gets hit. No thanks.

[Bonam]

Income levels have absolutely zippidy doo dah to do with health care premiums in Canada. Some provinces have a monthly payment, mine is the price of a quart of single malt.

Well, income levels do have something to do with it. In BC, for example, people must pay a monthly payment (indeed fairly cheap as you say), but the payment is reduced for people of low income (<$30k), and free if the income is low enough (<$22k):

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/premium.html

[bush_cheney2004]

Income levels have absolutely zippidy doo dah to do with health care premiums in Canada. Some provinces have a monthly payment, mine is the price of a quart of single malt. Others tack a percent on the sales tax and charge no fee. You can make 10k a year, or 500k a year up here and it makes no difference. And I can move from province to province at will and noone can ask me if I have a "pre-existing condition" with an eye to banning my health care. You see, we take care of each other up here. you gus call it socialism so you can shudder under the bed hoping it's only the "other" guy that gets hit. No thanks.

LOL....nice rant. Obviously your description of "free health care" funding mechanisms and revenue streams for the provinces is not complete or even accurate. Health care is not "banned" in the U.S., and actually far more system capacity is available per capita than in Canada. Your low income payment status would likely qualify for Medicaid in the U.S.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, income levels do have something to do with it. In BC, for example, people must pay a monthly payment (indeed fairly cheap as you say), but the payment is reduced for people of low income (<$30k), and free if the income is low enough (<$22k):

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/premium.html

Thanks for this link, as it is a start to figuring out just how much Canadians pay for "free health care". Are OW/ODSP funding streams a combination of federal and provincial, or does each province run their own program ? If provincial, how does this impact mobility across provinces? Let me guess...every province cooperates with reciprocity except for Quebec !

[jacee]

b_c this thread isn't about healthcare. Stop derailing.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=ow+odsp+ontario+rates&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA556CA557&oq=ow+odsp+ontario+rates&aqs=chrome..69i57.10925j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8#es_sm=119&espv=210&q=ow+odsp+rates+2014

Jacee's very basic question (what are the rates) seems to be very difficult to answer.

I have experienced this before, and it's astonishing to me that the government neglects to give people the basic tools to behave as a public - ie. give them information to make a decision.

From your link:

http://m.thestar.com/#!/gta/ontario-welfare-reforms-roll-out-this-month/6931a4d93b0235aae82eb953df4f6f3d

Sept 2013:

... her monthly $1075 Ontario Disability Support Program (ODSP) cheque ...

The new $626 monthly rate for a single person on welfare is still less than the $663 that same person would have received 20 years ago. Inflation has increased 44% since then.

Those are the base rates.

Not enough to live on, imo.

Based on inflation, the current OW rate should be about $955.

.

Edited January 8, 2014 by jacee

[bush_cheney2004]

b_c this thread isn't about healthcare. Stop derailing.

Wrong....OW/ODSP is about the health and welfare of Canadians.

[jacee]

Wrong....OW/ODSP is about the health and welfare of Canadians.

Stop derailing.

Go to a healthcare thread, or start one.

.

[On Guard for Thee]

Well, income levels do have something to do with it. In BC, for example, people must pay a monthly payment (indeed fairly cheap as you say), but the payment is reduced for people of low income (<$30k), and free if the income is low enough (<$22k):

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/premium.html

Yes you are absolutely correct. I failed to mention that the premiums can go down based on ability to pay, but can not go up based on ability to pay. And then of course there are other provinces where you pay through pst and there is no monthly.

[On Guard for Thee]

Thanks for this link, as it is a start to figuring out just how much Canadians pay for "free health care". Are OW/ODSP funding streams a combination of federal and provincial, or does each province run their own program ? If provincial, how does this impact mobility across provinces? Let me guess...every province cooperates with reciprocity except for Quebec !

Ihave no idea where you got this crazy idea of "free health care" and why you seem to enjoy flogging it constantly. Let me give you a quick statement you may understand, "nothing is free". Do you actually think doctors work for free in Canada? Or hospitals are donated? Once again, read my lips, it's not "free health care" it's "socialized health care" We do that here because we are able to do certain things, such as take care of each other, without tieing it to corporate profit.

[bush_cheney2004]

Ihave no idea where you got this crazy idea of "free health care" and why you seem to enjoy flogging it constantly. Let me give you a quick statement you may understand, "nothing is free". Do you actually think doctors work for free in Canada? Or hospitals are donated? Once again, read my lips, it's not "free health care" it's "socialized health care" We do that here because we are able to do certain things, such as take care of each other, without tieing it to corporate profit.

There is plenty of profit to be had in Canadian health care, where 35% is privately funded. On this topic and many others, you have proven to be utterly useless as a source for accurate information.

OW/ODSP and "socialized health care" didn't work out too well for this guy:

David Silver, 78, dies on porch after hospital release on -37 C night

Winnipeg senior released from hospital in slippers, given cab slip to get home

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/david-silver-78-dies-on-porch-after-hospital-release-on-37-c-night-1.2490624

Edited January 10, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[On Guard for Thee]

There is plenty of profit to be had in Canadian health care, where 35% is privately funded. On this topic and many others, you have proven to be utterly useless as a source for accurate information.

OW/ODSP and "socialized health care" didn't work out too well for this guy:

David Silver, 78, dies on porch after hospital release on -37 C night

Winnipeg senior released from hospital in slippers, given cab slip to get home

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/david-silver-78-dies-on-porch-after-hospital-release-on-37-c-night-1.2490624

Yep, mistakes do get made. How about the "private for profit" stories, of which there are many there we have all heard about where people get sick and become paupers for their troubles.?

[bush_cheney2004]

Yep, mistakes do get made. How about the "private for profit" stories, of which there are many there we have all heard about where people get sick and become paupers for their troubles.?

What about 'em ? You just stated that health care is not free, and it is not a Charter right either. OW/ODSP certainly does not satisfy all of the other health and welfare needs of sick or even some well people.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yep, mistakes do get made. How about the "private for profit" stories, of which there are many there we have all heard about where people get sick and become paupers for their troubles.?

Socialized health care in Canada is considered a human right enshrined and is enshrined in federal legislation.

[bush_cheney2004]

Socialized health care in Canada is considered a human right enshrined and is enshrined in federal legislation.

Nope....like OW/ODSP in Ontario, health care has minimum residency rules for Canadian citizens and emigres. Hardly an "enshrined right" if it can be taken away so easily.

Edited January 10, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[On Guard for Thee]

Nope....like OW/ODSP in Ontario, health care has minimum residency rules for Canadian citizens and emigres. Hardly an "enshrined right" if it can be taken away so easily.

Yes, there are requirements to be met by emigres. Once you meet them, your rights become as enshrined as mine, having been born here. The CHA let's me go anywhere I wish in this country, get sick or hurt, and be treated and paid for by the CHA. Believe me, I have experience.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yes, there are requirements to be met by emigres. Once you meet them, your rights become as enshrined as mine, having been born here. The CHA let's me go anywhere I wish in this country, get sick or hurt, and be treated and paid for by the CHA. Believe me, I have experience.

And I hasten to add I would prefer to be "useless" at providing information, than good at providing "useless" information. i.e. Snopes?

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, there are requirements to be met by emigres. Once you meet them, your rights become as enshrined as mine, having been born here. The CHA let's me go anywhere I wish in this country, get sick or hurt, and be treated and paid for by the CHA. Believe me, I have experience.

No...I don't believe you, as you are not correct, again. Canadian citizens lose their provincial "enshrined health care rights" if they don't maintain residency. I have experience too...my neighbour is from Canada and hasn't been there for years....no "free health care" for her.

OW/ODSP is means tested and not a right either.

[On Guard for Thee]

No...I don't believe you, as you are not correct, again. Canadian citizens lose their provincial "enshrined health care rights" if they don't maintain residency. I have experience too...my neighbour is from Canada and hasn't been there for years....no "free health care" for her.

OW/ODSP is means tested and not a right either.

Is that a great surprise to you? If you cease to become a resident and therefore cease to pay taxes, why should you be able to avail yourself of the health care system? Once again, let me inform you, pay attention. there is no "free health care system". It's a social health care system".