Do we need to raise the OW/ODSP rates?

[Michael Hardner]

Let's move on from this personal angle please...

[John]

I think they should probably be raised.

What I'd really like to see is some kind of a basic income for every adult who doesn't meet a specific income threshold.

The costs of letting people fester in poverty far outweigh the costs of doing something about it.

[Ash74]

I think they should probably be raised.

What I'd really like to see is some kind of a basic income for every adult who doesn't meet a specific income threshold.

The costs of letting people fester in poverty far outweigh the costs of doing something about it.

From the perspective of not wanting anybody going hungry in this land of plenty I agree with you.

I just hate to see people just doing the bare minimum because the government will pay the rest so why should they try?

I remember in the early 90's I was busting my ass working two part time jobs while people that I knew where doing better on welfare.

[John]

From the perspective of not wanting anybody going hungry in this land of plenty I agree with you.

I just hate to see people just doing the bare minimum because the government will pay the rest so why should they try?

I remember in the early 90's I was busting my ass working two part time jobs while people that I knew where doing better on welfare.

I get what you're saying.

But I think that the percentage of people who are lazy/cheats is small.

And for me it breaks down like this...there very well may be lazy/cheats, but is it morally right to let so many people live in poverty because of such a small percentage of n'er do wells?

For me the answer is no.

[Michael Hardner]

I just hate to see people just doing the bare minimum because the government will pay the rest so why should they try?

I remember in the early 90's I was busting my ass working two part time jobs while people that I knew where doing better on welfare.

I'm glad you're reframing this in terms of your personal disgust versus a problem that everybody can relate to. Not that your personal feelings about this aren't relevant, they indeed are, but we're not all paying a lot of taxes towards welfare cheats. That's an old Republican trope that doesn't really peek out from the groundhog hole anymore.

I actually feel a similar thing about hand-outs, in that I think they don't help people beyond the bare minimum. I think a program that looks to help people who are on assistance to truly maximize their potential could possibly pay for itself. But it would require funding, and it couldn't be punitive or it wouldn't work.

[John]

I'm glad you're reframing this in terms of your personal disgust versus a problem that everybody can relate to. Not that your personal feelings about this aren't relevant, they indeed are, but we're not all paying a lot of taxes towards welfare cheats. That's an old Republican trope that doesn't really peek out from the groundhog hole anymore.

I actually feel a similar thing about hand-outs, in that I think they don't help people beyond the bare minimum. I think a program that looks to help people who are on assistance to truly maximize their potential could possibly pay for itself. But it would require funding, and it couldn't be punitive or it wouldn't work.

Don't we currently have programs for those on social assistance to maximize their potential? If we do, I don't know if it's working out or not. I think that if we gave people a basic income they would have the security in knowing they won't have to choose between rent & food and go out and do something productive for themselves or their family or their community.

I don't think I'm naive in thinking that most people are not lazy and do not like living in, or near, poverty and don't want to live on handouts.

[Michael Hardner]

Don't we currently have programs for those on social assistance to maximize their potential?

I know that there were a few under Ontario Works, but it's very hard to find objective information on that.

[ron Young]

No because I think that giving more will not break the cycle of dependency that exists in may cases. This cycle must be broken if we want to improve society.

[jacee]

Don't we currently have programs for those on social assistance to maximize their potential? If we do, I don't know if it's working out or not. I think that if we gave people a basic income they would have the security in knowing they won't have to choose between rent & food and go out and do something productive for themselves or their family or their community.

I don't think I'm naive in thinking that most people are not lazy and do not like living in, or near, poverty and don't want to live on handouts.

OW workers barely have time to process eligibility and payments. There isn't much 'programming' toward work objectives done. It's very costly to provide that kind of support.

Employer incentive programs haven't succeeded due to abuse of the program and the 'indentured' workers.

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Edited March 28, 2015 by jacee

[John]

No because I think that giving more will not break the cycle of dependency that exists in may cases. This cycle must be broken if we want to improve society.

That's a fair statement.

How would you break the cycle of dependency?

[LucianCaine]

Let me see here I am not into this shit nor do I understand it but being one of these people you speak of I am on Ontario Works I receive 650 a month my rent is 333 a month but that's cause I have two others living with me in a 2 bedroom apartment and just so we all scrap by every month we all chip in so yeah for those who lack social skills or unable to live like this should never be forced too due to their income, I sleep in my living room for crying out loud on a couch cause I am trying my best to still make our place feel like a normal apartment even though the living room is my bed room. so YES 1,000 a month for ow would be great and another maybe if there was more jobs out there and business would stop giving people who don't need the job. I have not worked in 12 years cause where ever I apply requires experience or I am over qualified for the job. Honestly it's not as easy as you are making it sound for those of us who are on OW cause it's not. I do not drive cause I would never be able to afford a car even if I did get my license.  Not all people who are on OW are able bodied some of us are just lacking a doctor to fill out our paper work to receive ODSP cause we are physically limited due to health or mental health issues.  oh but yet we enable drug users to continue using by giving them places to get clean crack pipes and needles but yet there are not enough medical professionals to help those who actually need it.

Edited March 2, 2017 by LucianCaine
Not done

[LucianCaine]

So instead of the working class bitching whining and moaning about having to pay more taxes we on OW and ODSP pay taxes too or are you forgetting this so we deserve the same rights and respect as the rest of you cause we are the PEOPLE! WE VOTE WE PAY TAXES WE PAY RENT so don't think for one second that we have it better than you cause we don't in fact we are the ones that live the grind and will take any job that comes our way it's not that we are lazy some of us are yes but not all of us some of are struggling to get the help we need to better ourselves to have a better life but how can we do that if are not treated as equals but yet thought of as LAZY LIFE SUCKING NOT WANTING TO WORK WHEN IN REALITY THERE ARE NO JOBS IN THE CITY YOU LIVE IN! They give them to those who don't really need the job cause they qualify and fit there description of the perfect employee. 

[ODSP_Guy]

Allow me to add my 2 cents which is about the amount every tax payer will pay to me for 40 yrs of odsp ($0.05 of every tax doller goes to OW/ODSP/Old age, 22 million taxpayers 453,000 receipients that works out to about $0.00015) i think rates should be raised to about $30,000, WHAT?! You say?

 

In 2001 this guy i knew in highschool murdered someone he was convicted in 2005 after a lengthy trial, he's been in prison since 12 years of prison equals about 1.6 million dollars or for me 100 years of ODSP, he eats 3 meals a day, is clothed, housed, given all the basic necessities, soap, shampoo, hot showers, hydro etc......i'm on disabillity i struggle with the basics, if you can give basic human rights to a murderer.......why can't i? $30,000 is 1/5th the cost of incarceration, yet i barely survive.......i could kill someone and be treated better.

[Jariax]

I don't think comparing the money spent on an inmate to the money spent on ODSP recipients is a fair comparison. But I do see your point. I think there should be various tiers. 

1) Welfare for able-bodied people: This should be the lowest tier - with enough money given for shared accommodation, food, and some extra spending money. Additionally, any government-provided service that allows people to improve their skills etc, should be provided at no cost. It needs to be a balance between compassion/dignity vs incentive to go and find work. 

2) Welfare/Disability for unproven illness. This probably won't be as popular of an opinion, but there's far too many people claiming some sort of mental illness these days. PTSD, depression etc etc, Happy to supply these people with whatever meds/counselling they require, but I see no reason why they should get much more than standard welfare - unless there's a long history. Our society has changed too much, such that anyone can make up something, and be instantly believed, because they villainize anyone who doesn't.

3) Welfare/Disability for proven illnesses. If we have a situation where the person obviously can not get a job easily - ie missing limbs, paraplegic, and other severe problems - we can take the need to provide incentive out, and just give them a decent standard of living, regardless of whose fault it is.

4) Minimum Wage: I think minimum wage should always be greater than the monetary component of any of the first three. A person who works 35 hours a week, should always get more money than someone who doesn't. And I think the $15/hour is a great step - although I do think it should differ based on the cost of living in a particular city.