j44 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 You mean in the other thread where I said something wasn't a lie and Shady it was a lie based on a Washington Post fact check that the Washington Post then walked back and said they were wrong it wasn't a lie? Yep I stand by that not being a lie. Again Romney's whole campaign is based on lies there is nothing else. Stop with the both sides do it garbage. If Obama is telling saying one misleading statement (which is often debatable) out of a hundred, and Romney is saying hundred out of a hundred that one misleading statement DOES NOT give Romney the right the run a whole campaign on lies. Giving him a pass on every lie because a small amount of misleading statements is a road to hell. You are part of the problem. I shouldn't be surprised that this was your answer. If you really can't see that both sides are lying pretty often you are more biased than I thought you were. I support Obama and if he has to destroy Romney's character to win I am ok with that. I wish he didn't have to do it but he does. Now, saying that Romney lies all the time and Obama lies 1% of the time is silly even for you. As far as me being the problem, I take comfort in you thinking that. Because the problem in the US isn't that two irrational sides of both parties are yelling at each other and pandering to the extreme partisans in their camps (read: you and shady) and not willing to sit down and solve the country's problems, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Yes, as Punked's pointing out about your MSNBC "minority" bit; or Biden's remark about "chains." Fortunately you stand above this type of discourse. Odds of Shady acknowledging this? Nil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) I shouldn't be surprised that this was your answer. If you really can't see that both sides are lying pretty often you are more biased than I thought you were. I support Obama and if he has to destroy Romney's character to win I am ok with that. I wish he didn't have to do it but he does. Now, saying that Romney lies all the time and Obama lies 1% of the time is silly even for you. As far as me being the problem, I take comfort in you thinking that. Because the problem in the US isn't that two irrational sides of both parties are yelling at each other and pandering to the extreme partisans in their camps (read: you and shady) and not willing to sit down and solve the country's problems, right? How about some numbers then. According to Politifact "PolitiFact operation has issued 119 Pants on Fire ratings for Republican or conservative claims, and only 13 for liberal or Democratic claims for 2011". That is 10 to one. What do you want me to do? You want me to say "Both sides do it" when one does 10 times more then the other? That is the problem. Either you reward the side that tells a lot less lies or the side who tells the most lies will continue to do so. It isn't like this is in the margin of error here it is 10 to 1. THAT IS A PROBLEM. Head over to politi fact and see how many pants on fire the Republicans have vs. everyone else. Steve Benen Reports in 30 WEEKS he has counted 533 lies AND DOCUMENTED ALL OF THEM from Romney. What do you want me to say? Seriously it is crazy and uncomparable. It is so bad that the Washington Post ran a story about how members of the media are even starting to have behind the camera discussions about how to handle it. They don't want to call the man who might be President a lair and for a long time the lies have been so small or easy to correct that the media has ignored in Presidential campaigns. Now it has gotten so bad from Romney they have to have meetings to figure out what to do. I am sorry they aren't the same thing no matter how much you want them to be. "Once Obama said there was 57 states that means we can tell the American people whatever we want. Lets make a new commercial that says Obama wants to pass a law where he wants end Work requirements for welfare who cares if it is a huge lie". That does not cut it. If you think they are the same then give me an example because right now I have one thread where in the end Obama wasn't lying at all it just took the media a week to report that. Edited August 30, 2012 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Odds of Shady acknowledging this? Nil. I'd say the odds are less than nil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) You mean in the other thread where I said something wasn't a lie and Shady it was a lie based on a Washington Post fact check that the Washington Post then walked back and said they were wrong it wasn't a lie? Yep I stand by that not being a lie. Again Romney's whole campaign is based on lies there is nothing else. Stop with the both sides do it garbage. If Obama is telling saying one misleading statement (which is often debatable) out of a hundred, and Romney is saying hundred out of a hundred that one misleading statement DOES NOT give Romney the right the run a whole campaign on lies. Giving him a pass on every lie because a small amount of misleading statements is a road to hell. You are part of the problem. I didn’t say that I was giving team Romney a pass on their lies. I simply implied that it was hypocritical to constantly point out one sides' lies. How about some numbers then. According to Politifact "PolitiFact operation has issued 119 Pants on Fire ratings for Republican or conservative claims, and only 13 for liberal or Democratic claims for 2011". That is 10 to one. What do you want me to do? You want me to say "Both sides do it" when one does 10 times more then the other? That is the problem. Either you reward the side that tells a lot less lies or the side who tells the most lies will continue to do so. It isn't like this is in the margin of error here it is 10 to 1. THAT IS A PROBLEM. Head over to politi fact and see how many pants on fire the Republicans have vs. everyone else. Steve Benen Reports in 30 WEEKS he has counted 533 lies AND DOCUMENTED ALL OF THEM from Romney. What do you want me to say? Seriously it is crazy and uncomparable. It is so bad that the Washington Post ran a story about how members of the media are even starting to have behind the camera discussions about how to handle it. They don't want to call the man who might be President a lair and for a long time the lies have been so small or easy to correct that the media has ignored in Presidential campaigns. Now it has gotten so bad from Romney they have to have meetings to figure out what to do. I am sorry they aren't the same thing no matter how much you want them to be. "Once Obama said there was 57 states that means we can tell the American people whatever we want. Lets make a new commercial that says Obama wants to pass a law where he wants end Work requirements for welfare who cares if it is a huge lie". That does not cut it. If you think they are the same then give me an example. I'm obviously not doing that. You could be right, but I'm not getting into this nonsense. Team Obama has thrown out some big ones. Maybe Romney's team has lied a lot more. Maybe it is 10:1. You can fight over it all you want but I don't really care. I don't understand this constant bickering. I'm all for debate that moves things forward but the way you and Shady go on...I'm sorry but I don't get it. You aren't convincing anyone that isn't already on your side. So, to me, it is totally pointless. It is bad enough to go over every single issue in this manner but it is exponentially worse to do it over ever single sentence by the candidates, their parties and their surrogates. I’m not going to waste my time going back and forth with you like Shady does and tell you over and over that you are too partisan almost to the point of being irrational. I’ll leave that stuff up to Shady; it is pointless. If you want to go on and on about how you are right, Romney is pure evil and so forth feel free. Shady is here for you. Edited August 30, 2012 by j44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I didn’t say that I was giving team Romney a pass on their lies. I simply implied that it was hypocritical to constantly point out one sides' lies. No it's not. It's selective, but it's not hypocrisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 No it's not. It's selective, but it's not hypocrisy. Fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) I’m not going to waste my time going back and forth with you like Shady does and tell you over and over that you are too partisan almost to the point of being irrational. you either choose to ignore MLW member, 'Shady's', outright lies... to ignore Shady, outright... or you engage the miscreant. That is not being, as you suggest, 'too partisan'. In terms of purposefully misleading and spreading lies, MLW member, 'punked', just offered legitimate, multiple sourced, damning statistics on the behaviour of U.S. Republicans as compared to Democrats. MLW offers a like microcosm on the behaviour of MLW member, 'Shady'. more on the RNC LyinRyan: Edited August 30, 2012 by waldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I wonder how much time they will give Ryan to make his speech. He is the asset of the Romney-campaign but there is a danger that he might steal the show. He's the asset? Says who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I'd say the odds are less than nil. I already have Even Democrat congressmen acknowledge that Biden's remarks were race related. As for MSNBC, it's fact that they didn't show the visible minority speeches isn't disputable. Same with the fact that initially they only posted the non-visible minority speeches online. Now what are the odds waldo acknowledge his mistake regarding the GM plant? I highly doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I'd say the odds are less than nil. Almost as low as the odds of you not being the biggest hypocrit in the forum. You like to constantly criticize Romney for being like Obama, but you never criticize Obama for actually being Obama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 As for MSNBC, it's fact that they didn't show the visible minority speeches isn't disputable. so what? You went on one of your tirades over this supposed MSNBC bias... it was gold, real gold, to see it pointed out to you the like Fox News coverage. Somehow, you never saw fit to acknowledge this, or... to follow-up with a like Shady tirade against Fox News! Go figure. Now what are the odds waldo acknowledge his mistake regarding the GM plant? I highly doubt it. no mistake - you should really read before you leap, hey? Would you like the posts replayed for you? Would you like to identify the principal Ryan lie... you know, the supposed Obama promise - the Ryan lie you're ignoring? Would you like me to, once again, re-quote the Politifact 'Truth-Meter' summation on Ryan's lie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 you either choose to ignore MLW member, 'Shady's', outright lies... to ignore Shady, outright... or you engage the miscreant. That is not being, as you suggest, 'too partisan'. In terms of purposefully misleading and spreading lies, MLW member, 'punked', just offered legitimate, multiple sourced, damning statistics on the behaviour of U.S. Republicans as compared to Democrats. MLW offers a like microcosm on the behaviour of MLW member, 'Shady'. I didn't say he was too partisan because he engaged Shady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I didn't say he was too partisan because he engaged Shady. your sentence structure is open to that interpretation... my apologies for misinterpreting your intended meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 your sentence structure is open to that interpretation... my apologies for misinterpreting your intended meaning. No problem, I re-read it and it does sound like that is what I meant. Although, I would be lying if I didn't admit that the tone of the 'engaging' plays a role in my too partisan comments. But I'll admit the tone is also a result of Shady's....approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 As time is passing I’m looking at Ann Romney’s speech and thinking less of it (maybe because Ryan’s was much better) and I didn’t think it was very good to begin with. I really, really do think that she (and the campaign) needed/needs to make him look….nicer. Not only did she not do that and not tell any great stories about him but she didn’t hit on the other point that she needed to drive home. If they weren’t going to go with the ‘he IS nice’ they needed to hit harder on him being a fixer. That ‘he will not fail’ line was good but that should have been the theme. She should have said it over and over again. And stressed that he was there for her during her illnesses while being a success with the games in Utah, governor etc etc. I really do think her speech was more important than Ryan’s in the sense that it could have had a greater impact. His was good (maybe even very good) despite the factual problems. But I can’t stress enough how strongly I feel that they need to make Mitt likeable. This race is close and if he can improve his image personality wise it could put him over the top. He doesn’t even have to be as likable as Obama is. He just has to be more likable than he is now. I think she was their best chance to do that. I could be wrong and he could come out tonight and come off as an actual person or give this mind blowing speech. We will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) As time is passing I’m looking at Ann Romney’s speech and thinking less of it (maybe because Ryan’s was much better) and I didn’t think it was very good to begin with. I really, really do think that she (and the campaign) needed/needs to make him look….nicer. Not only did she not do that and not tell any great stories about him but she didn’t hit on the other point that she needed to drive home. If they weren’t going to go with the ‘he IS nice’ they needed to hit harder on him being a fixer. That ‘he will not fail’ line was good but that should have been the theme. She should have said it over and over again. And stressed that he was there for her during her illnesses while being a success with the games in Utah, governor etc etc. I really do think her speech was more important than Ryan’s in the sense that it could have had a greater impact. His was good (maybe even very good) despite the factual problems. But I can’t stress enough how strongly I feel that they need to make Mitt likeable. This race is close and if he can improve his image personality wise it could put him over the top. He doesn’t even have to be as likable as Obama is. He just has to be more likable than he is now. I think she was their best chance to do that. I could be wrong and he could come out tonight and come off as an actual person or give this mind blowing speech. We will see. This is what my Grandmother said of Mrs. Romney's speech. "I didn't like it. Everyone in the US has a story like Romney's wife told. I had a very loving marriage for 50 years it was amazing but that never made my Husband qualified to be president and it doesn't make Romney any more of a good choice for President." Fair enough Grandma I know for a fact you will be voting, I know you will be voting in a swing state so go for it. Edited August 30, 2012 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) we see a lot of fact checks and comments about how ryan made many false comments, but what about this: Seven Inarguably True Things in Paul Ryan’s Speech We've put the Gawker Fact Checking Team on the case and collected all seven of Ryan's true statements right here: "There she is — my Mom, Betty." Fact-check: True. Paul Ryan's mom was there. "My Dad, a small-town lawyer, was also named Paul." Fact-check: True. Paul Ryan's father was named Paul. "I live on the same block where I grew up." Fact-check: True. Ryan still lives on the same block where he grew up. "President Barack Obama came to office during an economic crisis." Fact-check: True. President Obama came to office during an economic crisis. "My home state voted for President Obama." Fact-check: True. Obama carried Wisconsin in 2008. "My wonderful grandma, Janet, had Alzheimer's and moved in with Mom and me." Fact-check: True. Ryan's grandmother moved in with him and his mother. "[President Obama] created a bipartisan debt commission." Fact-check: True. President Obama created a bipartisan debt commission. "Mom was 50 when my Dad died." Fact-check: True. Ryan's mother was 50 years old when his father died. "Mitt and I also go to different churches." Fact-check: True. Ryan is Catholic, while Romney is a Mormon. link Edited August 30, 2012 by bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Clint Eastwood might be there tonight. According to some reports he may speak. Should be pretty cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Clint Eastwood might be there tonight. According to some reports he may speak. Should be pretty cool! I like that guy, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Clint Eastwood might be there tonight. According to some reports he may speak. Should be pretty cool! I'll believe when I see it. He has a movie coming out so I assume he steers clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Clint Eastwood might be there tonight. According to some reports he may speak. Should be pretty cool! ya confirmed; apparently he wants to promote another old-geezer movie that's coming out soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 ya confirmed; apparently he wants to promote another old-geezer movie that's coming out soon Big fan here NOT GOING TO SEE HIS MOVIE NOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I'll believe when I see it. He has a movie coming out so I assume he steers clear. why would he steer clear because of a movie coming out? it's perfect PR for a movie. last i heard, eastwood was a ron paul and libertarian supporter so it's hard to believe him making a speech considering the convention threw ron paul and his supporters under the bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) why would he steer clear because of a movie coming out? it's perfect PR for a movie. last i heard, eastwood was a ron paul and libertarian supporter so it's hard to believe him making a speech considering the convention threw ron paul and his supporters under the bus. He is speaking at the convention presumably because he supports Romney. Edited August 30, 2012 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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