And the World (the Ummah That Is) Looks Just the Same...

[jbg]

Some stories have a remarkable continuity through the ages. As The Who famously said back in 1971 "the world looks just the same, and history ain't changed".

Through the millennia since man evolved, war and vengeance has characterized large swaths of the world. Throughout the centuries, rival groups of people who couldn't get along slaughtered each other with a vengeance. This has become somewhat less common in the parts of the world now dominated by Pax Americana, which is admittedly less extensive than the world dominated by Pax Brittanica before. As the British Empire came to a close and large areas gained "independence" (really rule by local thugs) bloodletting on a heretofore unimagined scale (with the possible exception of the Nazi Holocaust and Stalin's outrages) has become the norm. Below are three examples.

The third, and earliest, from Mach 1948, illustrates that in the midst of the serious problems of the Indian Subcontinent, the leaders seized on an even more serious problem; Israel.

Links to and excerpts of the stories below:

17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

(link)

By HEIDI VOGT and MIRWAIS KHAN | Associated Press – 5 hrs agoKABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Insurgents beheaded 17 civilians in a Taliban-controlled area of southern Afghanistan, apparently because they attended a dance party that flouted the extreme brand of Islam embraced by the militants, officials said Monday.

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The victims were part of a large group that had gathered late Sunday in Helmand province's Musa Qala district for a celebration involving music and dancing, said district government chief Neyamatullah Khan. He said the Taliban slaughtered them to show their disapproval of the event.

All of the bodies were decapitated but it was not clear if they had been shot first, said provincial government spokesman Daoud Ahmadi.

August 26, 2012

Crackdown Toll Seen as Syrians Bury Hundreds

(link)

By an EMPLOYEE of THE NEW YORK TIMES in SYRIA and DAMIEN CAVE

DARAYA, Syria — Mass burials in this Damascus suburb on Sunday showed the carnage of the past few days in gruesome detail: scores of bodies lined up on top of one another in long, thin graves moist with mud.

In what is unfolding as one of the deadliest and most focused short-term assaults by the Syrian military since the uprising started nearly 18 months ago, witnesses and activist groups say hundreds have been killed in Daraya in the past week alone. Residents described how the Syrian Army first closed off the city, keeping civilians from fleeing, then methodically began a campaign of heavy shelling and house-to-house searches ending with executions.

A video of what activists described as the fifth and latest mass grave to be filled showed two small children near the edge. Up close, in the field where there were more bodies than people to wash and prepare them for burial, the scent of decay swirled and gunshot wounds could be seen in the heads of many men.

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Two other videos posted Saturday showed corpses lined up as well, with activists declaring that the largest discovery occurred late Saturday night in the basement of a mosque. The Local Coordination Committees said about 150 bodies had been discovered there. Most were men killed in executions, activists said, though they also noted that among the dead found all over the city, there were also several women and children.

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But on Sunday at least, the main task at hand was to find a place for those already killed. With government tanks and troop carriers surrounding the city, the burials proceeded amid chaos, outrage, shock and sorrow. With every new grave, with every son and brother laid to rest, the fury seemed to intensify.

“We don’t consider the Assad army to be the army of a nation, we see them as gangs of robbers who kill, steal and rape,” said Abu Mohammed, 50, a resident helping with the burials. “No national army commits acts like these except the dogs of Assad.”

Published: March 16, 1948

Copyright © The New York Times

JIHAD URGED ON PAKISTAN

(link)

Mufti Wants Moslem Leaders to Back War in Palestine

NEW DELHI. India. March 15 UP) –

Several Moslem leaders of Pakistan were reported tonight

to have expressed sympathy and support for an Arab jihad (holy

war) in Palestine. The report was carried in the newspaper The Statesman in a dispatch from its correspondent in Peshawar.

The account said that a letter inviting Moslems of the Indian subcontinent to join the Palestine war was received by the Premier of the North-West Frontier Province from the exiled Mufti of Jerusalem. Emissaries of the Mufti are understood to have carried similar letters for the Governor General of Pakistan, the Premier of Sind Province and the Premier of West Punjab Province.

[TheNewTeddy]

I wouldn't recommend anyone doing the same, but, does anyone remember that website that the video where that guy dismembered that guy was on? then mailed the parts to the Tories and Grits?

That's a "shock site". I've been there and they had a video of someone being beheaded. No Hollywood, no cutting away, just some guy being beheaded in the name of Islam, sound and all.

That was one of the images from that website that I will never be able to "unsee" or "unhear". When I read about Islamists beheading people, I always recall that video, an know how truly and utterly horrific of a act that is.

[Black Dog]

Some stories have a remarkable continuity through the ages.

As do some posters. Do you have a point? Some commentary to add? Maybe try and articulate why you think Muslims are inherently savage beast people.

[wyly]

hmmm...recalling cliche about pots, kettles and blackness...

Israeli historian Avi Shlaim describes the massacre thus: “Sharon’s order was to penetrate Qibya, blow up houses and inflict heavy casualties on its inhabitants. His success in carrying out the order surpassed all expectations. The full and macabre story of what happened at Qibya was

revealed only during the morning after the attack. The village had been reduced to rubble: forty-five houses had been blown up, and sixty-nine civilians, two thirds of them women and children, had been killed. Sharon and his men claimed that they believed that all the inhabitants had run away and that they had no idea that anyone was hiding inside the houses.”

The UN observer on the scene reached a different conclusion: “One story was repeated time after time: the bullet splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshhold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them.” The slaughter in Qibya was described contemporaneously in a letter to the president of the United Nations Security Council dated 16 October 1953 (S/3113) from the Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary of Jordan to the United States. On 14 October 1953 at 9:30 at night, he wrote, Israeli troops launched a battalion-scale attack on the village of Qibya in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (at the time the West Bank was annexed to Jordan).

http://www.counterpunch.org/2001/02/07/the-crimes-of-ariel-sharon/

[Argus]

As do some posters. Do you have a point? Some commentary to add? Maybe try and articulate why you think Muslims are inherently savage beast people.

Oh not all Muslims, and yet...

Savage Beast People

Edited August 28, 2012 by Argus

[Black Dog]

Oh not all Muslims, and yet...

Savage Beast People

Uh huh. Appalling stuff. What's your point?

[GostHacked]

Welcome to liberated Afghanistan.

[Rue]

Uh huh. Appalling stuff. What's your point?

The point of JBG's posts and threads ar no different than Bud's. Why the selective outrage?

You have zero credibility coming on the Middle East threads and pulling your usual moral righteous

outrage shtick but only with JBG and not equally with Bud.

By the way Dog of Colour do you really think you are any less extremist in your views? Lol.

Oh let's spell it out because I find your righteous outrage even more repulsive than the extremism of Bud or JBG... you

come on this forum for the same reason they do and we all do to ponitifcate and lecture and presume to be superior to others. It drips from the ooze in your condescending patronizing tone of words.

Now me Dog of Colour I come to urinate in your direction and preferably on you. Its what happens at an off leash dog park full of dogs.

If you find that not to your liking Boo Boo have mama take you home.

Like you don't know why certain dogs try hump one another.

Right.

Calls himself a dog and yips and yaps over mounting.

Hey yippy considering how many legs you have tried to hump on this forum I wouldn't worry about two mutts trying to hump each other. I'd be more concerned with whose leg you are trying to climb on.

Regards,

Ceasar the Dog Whisperer

Edited August 28, 2012 by Rue

[GostHacked]

I wouldn't recommend anyone doing the same, but, does anyone remember that website that the video where that guy dismembered that guy was on? then mailed the parts to the Tories and Grits?

That's a "shock site". I've been there and they had a video of someone being beheaded. No Hollywood, no cutting away, just some guy being beheaded in the name of Islam, sound and all.

That was one of the images from that website that I will never be able to "unsee" or "unhear". When I read about Islamists beheading people, I always recall that video, an know how truly and utterly horrific of a act that is.

As abhorrent as it is. I think people should watch those kinds of videos. I have seen a couple myself, and cannot stand to watch another. Very very disturbing.

Atrocities need to be shown so we can understand those atrocities. Violence permeates western media so much that essentially people are just immune and numb to it all, but yet when it comes to REAL violence that needs to be seen and understood and fought, the claim that it's too graphic and may disturb some so it is not shown on TV. So instead we have a nice sanitized version that allows people to forget the incident and go back to their day without thinking twice about it. Out of site out of mind.

[Guest American Woman]

The point of JBG's posts and threads or no different than Bud's. Why the selective outrage?

You beat me to it. Evidently it's ok to focus on Evil Israel or Hypocritical Christians, but to key in on Violent Muslims is just not right.

You have zero credibility coming on the Middle East threads and pulling your usual moral righteous

outrage shtick. You think by the way you are any less extremist in your views? Hmmmm.

I've pointed out the same thing myeslf - so many are just the opposite side of the coin from those they criticize. Of course none of them see it - which makes sitting back and watching it that much more incredible.

[Black Dog]

The point of JBG's posts and threads or no different than Bud's. Why the selective outrage?

I don't read bud's posts at all. They're a mess. JBG can string a sentence together, even if there's not much going on behind them. A better analogue to bud would be, well, you.

You have zero credibility coming on the Middle East threads and pulling your usual moral righteous

outrage shtick. You think by the way you are any less extremist in your views? Hmmmm.

As a matter of fact I am.

The point is this forum is full of people like you and JBG and Bud. You come here to ponitifcate and lecture.

Yeah, imagine that in a discussion board.

Me? I come hear to urinate in your direction and mark my territory as well. My point is very simple don't come to the

off leash dog park and infer you don't understand why dogs are off the leash or why you are no different than the other

unfixed male ones trying to hump one another.

What is this I don't even.

By the way Doggy, I told you once before what kind of dog I am. We know you don't like Canaan Dogs. Boo.

Oh look an accusation of antisemitism based on nothing.

I hate these little yippy toy dogs-yap yap yap. Little rats always trying to humps omeone's leg and getting upset when they can't.

And yet you can't seem to get enough of it. Why is that? Just like the taste of canine jizz?

Edited August 28, 2012 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

You beat me to it. Evidently it's ok to focus on Evil Israel or Hypocritical Christians, but to key in on Violent Muslims is just not right.

It's fine if you have a point. What is the point here? You tell me.

I've pointed out the same thing myeslf - so many are just the opposite side of the coin from those they criticize. Of course none of them see it - which makes sitting back and watching it that much more incredible.

That's just so goddamn deep. Did you really think of that yourself? Penetrating insight.

[Guest American Woman]

It's fine if you have a point. What is the point here? You tell me.

Because I wasn't directing my response to you - it was directed at someone who is able to understand a simple point. I wouldn't expect "the opposite side of the coin" to get it; in fact, you just verified "the none of them see it" point I was making.

That's just so goddamn deep. Did you really think of that yourself? Penetrating insight.

Speaking of deep... MENSA called and wants to use this response of yours as an example of superior intelligence.

[Black Dog]

Because I wasn't directing my response to you - it was directed at someone who is able to understand a simple point.

*Looks back* No no that's not right: you were addressing Rue.

I wouldn't expect "the opposite side of the coin" to get it; in fact, you just verified "the none of them see it" point I was making.

That's not a "point." That's a lazy, stupid, broad stroke swipe at some strawman.

Speaking of deep... MENSA called and wants to use this response of yours as an example of superior intelligence.

Speaking of smartitude, let's talk about the thought process of those who look at people who deplore religious bigotry and stupidity and assume they are in favor of religious bigotry and stupidity in certain forms.

I should also point out the context here: there's a running theme in jbg's posts on Islam that insinuates Muslims aren't just backwards in many respects (many are) but that they are actually inherently, intrinsically violent and brutish. I've never seen anyone make such claims about Jews or Christians, which is why I've always hounded him on this subject.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Black Dog

[Argus]

Uh huh. Appalling stuff. What's your point?

That ignorance, religious fanaticism, and a stunning disregard for the value of human life (Look, he forgot to cross his T! Kill him! Burn his family! Witch! Witch!) is widespread in the Muslim world, and getting worse, not better.

[bud]

That ignorance, religious fanaticism, and a stunning disregard for the value of human life (Look, he forgot to cross his T! Kill him! Burn his family! Witch! Witch!) is widespread in the Muslim world, and getting worse, not better.

do you have something to show that it is widespread and getting worse or are you telling us how you see things?

[jbg]

As do some posters. Do you have a point? Some commentary to add? Maybe try and articulate why you think Muslims are inherently savage beast people.

That is not what I said.

[Black Dog]

That ignorance, religious fanaticism, and a stunning disregard for the value of human life (Look, he forgot to cross his T! Kill him! Burn his family! Witch! Witch!) is widespread in the Muslim world, and getting worse, not better.

I'm with you up to the point where you say it's getting worse. Is it? Can you prove that? I'm not arguing that it's not, either. I'm just not sure if it's worse or just better publicized.

Further, I'm not sure jbg would agree that it's getting worse: according to him, it was ever thus, even back before there was such a thing as Islam.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

That is not what I said.

No you didn't. You didn't say much of anything, as usual. But that's the subtext of all these posts of yours and has been for a long time.

[jbg]

Further, I'm not sure jbg would agree that it's getting worse: according to him, it was ever thus, even back before there was such a thing as Islam.

What I have said is that many of the problems Islamophobes attribute to Islam are more related to tribal cultural issues, with the more modern addition of heavy weaponry. I think a religion is neither inherently constructive or destructive; it's character depends on how people use it. The Old Testament is full of alarming pronouncements and yet Jews, over all (and not universally) are constructive people. At one time, though, their societies had their share of internecine violence and aggression against outsiders.

I pray for the day when followers of Islam join the modern world and contribute their considerable intelligence to helping rather than killing people.

[bud]

I pray for the day when followers of Islam join the modern world and contribute their considerable intelligence to helping rather than killing people.

i hope the followers of islam are listening to your heartfelt plea to abandon savagery. you are a man of conscience and peace. keep up the good work.

[wyly]

i hope the followers of islam are listening to your heartfelt plea to abandon savagery. you are a man of conscience and peace. keep up the good work.

:lol: baited, hooked, set and reeled in...well done jgb the Hasbara will be proud of you another sucker netted... keep up the good work gotta keep deflecting from the real issue at hand zionist apartheid...zionism ueber alles

[Wild Bill]

Once again I am struck by how many people confuse religion and culture. It is not religion that is the problem.

There are civilized and primitive peoples all over the planet. Some are Christians of various sorts, some are Muslims and some are a variety of others. What makes them different with the issues pertinent in this thread is their culture.

Muslims in the western world are for the most part no different than any other group. However, there are indeed Muslims in some countries that have very primitive and barbaric cultures.

Barbarism is as barbarism does. You cannot excuse them just because of their religion! We are all judged by our deeds, not by our words and certainly not by our prayers.

It is far more practical to just ignore someone's religion and deal solely with their actions. Using religion as an excuse is just a distraction.

[bud]

Once again I am struck by how many people confuse religion and culture. It is not religion that is the problem.

There are civilized and primitive peoples all over the planet. Some are Christians of various sorts, some are Muslims and some are a variety of others.

know of any crazy zealot jews?

[Canuckistani]

know of any crazy zealot jews?

Yes, the settlers and their supporters in the Israeli parliament. The reason they're not going all terrorist is because they have the whole Israeli army to protect them. Withdraw that protection and they'd probably act just as viciously as the Palestinians. When God has given you some land, you have to be willing to fight and kill for it, ask the Canaanites.