So is this racism?

[The_Squid]

No but what I am saying is that comparing a league that limits the members based on race is far different from having a league or group that are meant for people of a certain nationality.

Aren't they from the same region or country? How is this based on "race" and not nationality?

It'd be interesting if someone was born in India but was white, would they be treated the same way as a Canadian born person that was clearly South Asian.

you are making up straw-men. This isn't happening.

[Boges]

Aren't they from the same region or country? How is this based on "race" and not nationality?

I'm not the one who brought in Nationality. Others in this thread have said that there's nothing wrong with what happened here because there are Italian only clubs and church softball leagues and stuff like that.

I'm just highlighting that it's a false comparison because these groups are discriminating on race.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Boges

[Boges]

Another example would be the CFL. Each team has to have a minimum number of Canadian players. So they do discriminate. But they don't discriminate on the race of those Canadians.

Race and Nationality are two very different things.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Boges

[The_Squid]

I'm just highlighting that it's a false comparison because these groups are discriminating on race.

How is it race and not nationality?

[Boges]

How is it race and not nationality?

Because you can be as Canadian as anyone else born in this country, but I bet you'd be able to play in this league because of the colour of your skin.

[Michael Hardner]

Because you can be as Canadian as anyone else born in this country, but I bet you'd be able to play in this league because of the colour of your skin.

If you were a light-skinned African they'd let you play ?

Now we've gone from a tempest in a teapot to an imaginary tempest in a teapot.

[The_Squid]

Because you can be as Canadian as anyone else born in this country, but I bet you'd be able to play in this league because of the colour of your skin.

No.... you have reading comprehension problems. From your own link the league is made up of INDO-Canadians. People of Indian origin.

You are making up the brown skin issue up out of your imagination.... I wonder why....

[Boges]

No.... you have reading comprehension problems. From your own link the league is made up of INDO-Canadians. People of Indian origin.

You are making up the brown skin issue up out of your imagination.... I wonder why....

The article also gives an example of an Italian Group that doesn't discriminate at all.

The ICSF “is an Italian club, but [it] has never had such rules in place,” says its president, Sam Pantusa. “ In fact, we openly welcome all ethnic groups.”

So the question is if you find this type of discrimination cool. If you do whatever.

But growing up in a multicultural community, I do find this type of separation troubling. Especially since this is a league for 12 year olds.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Boges

[Canuckistani]

You ignore the obvious disparity is social capital and power between those two groups in Canadian society. If you can understand that, then you can see that you've created a false equivalence.

Wow, the pc cant comes out. How can you write this crap without barfing? Discrimination against brown people bad, discrimination against white people good. With the continuing shrinking of the proportion of white people in Canada, will you at least set a marker of when we can reverse this, start discriminating in favor of the white minority? In Vancouver whites make up 50% of the population. Punjabis and Chinese have very strong communities. Have we met your marker yet for not allowing discrimination against whites?

That said, this is a private organization. They can do what they want, the more power to them.

[The_Squid]

The article also gives an example of an Italian Group that doesn't discriminate at all.

OK, great. And if they ONLY allowed Italians then you would have a problem with that?

You still made up the whole racist brown skin thing up out of your overactive imagination!

So the question is if you find this type of discrimination cool. If you do whatever.

But growing up in a multicultural community, I do find this type of separation troubling. Especially since this is a league for 12 year olds.

I don't really care. If Swedes want to get together without the rest of us around, or if Pakistanis do, then great! I know a group of Ghanians who have a "club". I'm not invited. I don't call them racists, because that would be idiotic!!

[The_Squid]

Discrimination against brown people bad, discrimination against white people good.

Should the Swedish club let Pakistanis join?

[Canuckistani]

Should the Swedish club let Pakistanis join?

Read my whole post and you will have your answer, it's right there. You just need to read past your trigger point.

[Boges]

Should the Swedish club let Pakistanis join?

If there's a good reason to, why not?

I suspect many of the kids playing on this Soccer team, that aren't Indo-Canadian, are just friends of other players. Seems pretty harmless to me.

If you're just trying to prove a point by joining a club you otherwise have no interest in joining, then you're a jerk.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Boges

[The_Squid]

If there's a good reason to, why not?

And if they didn't, would you call the Swedes racists?

I suspect many of the kids playing in this Soccer team, that aren't Indo-Canadian, are just friends of other players. Seems pretty harmless to me.

Sure.... it's all harmless. Either way is completely harmless.

[The_Squid]

Read my whole post and you will have your answer, it's right there. You just need to read past your trigger point.

No, not really.... your post rants about white minorities and then says "all the power to them".

Are they racists if the Swedes don't let others join the Swedish Club?

[Boges]

And if they didn't, would you call the Swedes racists?

Again you'd have to pose an example of why this person would want to join the Swedish club. Maybe they're married to a Swedish person and want to share in that person's culture.

Sure.... it's all harmless. Either way is completely harmless.

Well it's not harmless when you DQ the team for the harmless behaviour.

In the OP I asked if this is really racism or just a coach trying to win a game on a technicality.

[The_Squid]

Again you'd have to pose an example of why this person would want to join the Swedish club. Maybe they're married to a Swedish person and want to share in that person's culture.

Well it's not harmless when you DQ the team for the harmless behaviour.

In the OP I asked if this is really racism or just a coach trying to win a game on a technicality.

Nice dodge of the question.

You claim it's racist.... but only for them brown-skinned people... Indo-Canadian is not a "race", it's a nationality... like Irish or Swedish.

[Canuckistani]

No, not really.... your post rants about white minorities and then says "all the power to them".

Are they racists if the Swedes don't let others join the Swedish Club?

You seem confused, maybe intentionally so. Here's what I said

That said, this is a private organization. They can do what they want, the more power to them

So these Indo-Canadians aren't racists, the Swedes wouldn't be racist if they chose to do this. Just people who want to hang together - why do we want to interfere? For private organizations you can make up rules as to include or exclude anybody you want - that's as it should be.

Since neither Indo-Canadian or Swedo-Canadian are races, by definition it can't be racist. But we hurl racist at all sorts of things, so going by that laxer definiton, it's exclusion based on "race". It's legal, I don't see the problem with it, since this is a private club.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Canuckistani

[TheNewTeddy]

Whites couldn't disallow Indo-Canadians from their teams because it would cause an uproar

This is true.

so the opposite shouldn't be allowed.

This is also true.

This should also cause an uproar

It will not, cause, they are not white.

Frankly, it's not just "against whites" - it's any minority VS a majority.

Edited August 15, 2012 by TheNewTeddy

[The_Squid]

This is true.

This is also true.

Do you see a lot of Indo-Canadians at the Ukrainian club?

It will not, cause, they are not white.

Frankly, it's not just "against whites" - it's any minority VS a majority.

How is this a skin colour issue and not an issue of nationality? No one has shown how this is so.

[Moonlight Graham]

People have freedom of association, but then people also have a right not to be discriminated based on race. Which right triumphs? Not sure.

What I'm most concerned about are ethnic/national minority groups segregating themselves and not mixing with each other. I don't think it's healthy for Canadian society. You look at Toronto and there many are communities separated by ethnicity. A sizeable community like Woodbridge, ON, has something like 95% Italians living there. I have a good friend from there who grew up there. I'm sure you could come up with a dozen other examples similar for different racial/ethnic/national groups.

Most of the people in Woodbridge have their kids go to virtually Italian-only schools. For my friend, until she went to university all of her best friends were Italian and most of them still are. She only dated Italians. This is because these are the people who happened to be in her school and in her neighbourhood.

I think this isn't very healthy for a supposedly multicultural society. I see the appeal for people to want to be with their own kind, but I think people should be encouraged (though not necessarily forced) to mix.

[The_Squid]

Since when did nationality equal race?

Italians and Norwegians are a different "race" now?

[Moonlight Graham]

Since when did nationality equal race?

Italians and Norwegians are a different "race" now?

I never said nationality = race.

How does one determine what constitutes another "race"? Are East Indians a "race". Italians look different than Swedes, so are Italians a race?

Are this Indo-Canadian soccer league actually concerned with race or ethnicity?

[The_Squid]

I never said nationality = race.

How does one determine what constitutes another "race"? Are East Indians a "race". Italians look different than Swedes, so are Italians a race?

Are this Indo-Canadian soccer league actually concerned with race or ethnicity?

YOU brought up discrimination based on race!! And this is not the case, as you sort of just said. So what is this about? This is an Indo-Canadian league, which means that it is based on nationality.

So why are you people going on about "race"? I'm still waiting for an answer about that.

[Canuckistani]

Whites couldn't disallow Indo-Canadians from their teams because it would cause an uproar, so the opposite shouldn't be allowed.

You're confusing causing an uproar with being allowed. This is not illegal, whites could do the same thing if they choose, for all I know they do. As you say, it would cause an uproar, but the whites could just tell the uproarers to piss up a rope if they felt strongly about being exclusive. But most whites have been raised with guilt for being white, so they'd tuck tail and change their policies.