Homeschooling

GostHacked · August 7, 2012

A study by whom? Sun News? Faux News. Your post is utterly stupid. Progressives are the most tolerant people in north america. that is the truth.

Good thing you cannot classify yourself as a progressive.

AngusThermopyle · August 7, 2012

Karl Marx had some great insights as to how public education should be and what it's purpose should be. That got me excited. We can teach about Karl Marx now because the history books are no longer biased against him. Check it out for yourself and you will see. Marx knew that in order to create a great society you had to get kids away from their parents as early as possible so their minds wouldn't be corrupted.

Ironic that you speak of corrupting childrens minds when that is exactly what you have said you want to do. Let me ask you a question. Why do you think you have any right at all to indoctrinate and pollute the minds of other peoples children? How did you become so arrogant as to believe you are entitled to meddle with others children in such a potentially harmfull manner?

As for the rest you posted about not teaching that irrelevant stuff such as Mathematics and English, well I think that alone speaks volumes about both you and the quality of teachers entering the work force. All I can hope is that yours are isolated views on these matters.

AngusThermopyle · August 7, 2012

Sorry, double post.

Edited August 7, 2012 by AngusThermopyle

bleeding heart · August 7, 2012

I'm not referring to people in this forum alone.

Sure, I know. But if such views were so common, then why wouldn't they hold more appeal for folks here?

bleeding heart · August 7, 2012

Marx knew that in order to create a great society you had to get kids away from their parents as early as possible so their minds wouldn't be corrupted.

Like Canada's Residential School Program!

A shining success story all around.

betsy · August 7, 2012

Sure, I know. But if such views were so common, then why wouldn't they hold more appeal for folks here?

We have a secularist society. I don't think we're just dealing with socialists or communists....we also have to contend with anti-religious people who'd try everything in their power to bust religion. What better way to do that than to start with children?

betsy · August 7, 2012

Like Canada's Residential School Program!

That's the past. Society learned its mistake. We're talking now.

Spiderfish · August 7, 2012

That's the past. Society learned its mistake. We're talking now.

I hope you're right, but with some of the extreme comments that are being put forth on this thread, obviously not all of society has learned this lesson.

With the push towards government run, government subsidized daycare programs that we saw from the Liberals a few years ago, the concept has gotten more subtle, but it exists. How young do we want the Government to take control of the upbringing of our kids? I realize the education system takes their role of co-parent seriously, but is this the role we really want them to play?

Edited August 7, 2012 by Spiderfish

guyser · August 7, 2012

I'm telling you, they're salivating to get their hands on the children.

Sounds just like the churches now doesnt it?

Michael Hardner · August 7, 2012

How young do we want the Government to take control of the upbringing of our kids?

Should we differentiate between 'government' and 'community' here ? We have an education system now, what's the matter with having early education to make it easier for working parents to manage ?

Bonam · August 7, 2012

what's the matter with having early education to make it easier for working parents to manage ?

What's the matter is the existence of people like "socialist". Though the forum poster here is likely a caricature, "teachers" like that really do exist.

Michael Hardner · August 7, 2012

What's the matter is the existence of people like "socialist". Though the forum poster here is likely a caricature, "teachers" like that really do exist.

Sure, but I don't think that's a reason not to have subsidized daycare. Any more than the fact that irresponsible capitalists and fatcats exist is a reason to have capitalism.

What works, is what it is.

Spiderfish · August 7, 2012

Should we differentiate between 'government' and 'community' here ? We have an education system now, what's the matter with having early education to make it easier for working parents to manage ?

I would agree that we should differentiate and ensure separation between 'government' and 'education'. I would actually insist on it. We all know that social values are taught and instilled to kids in the education system, but who's social values are they? What if I happen to disagree with some of those social values that are being passed on?

The logical question you have to ask is why is the government so interested in taking an active role in offering state run childcare? Believe me, as a parent who has made the conscious decision to give up one income in order to have a parent stay home and raise the kids, I understand how difficult it is to manage. If this was a program intended at helping out parents, then they would give parents a choice and offer equal and fair subsidies to parents who choose to stay at home and raise their kids, encouraging parents to take an active role in the upbringing of their kids. Unfortunately, this option never gets included in the government run childcare offer, it would give too much control to the parents.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Spiderfish

Michael Hardner · August 7, 2012

We all know that social values are taught and instilled to kids in the education system, but who's social values are they? What if I happen to disagree with some of those social values that are being passed on?

We do have common social values. If you don't agree with them, then you have many hours to indoctrinate your child against the common values of the nation.

The logical question you have to ask is why is the government so interested in taking an active role in offering state run childcare?

Government, or politicians ? I suspect you're asking about the latter in reality, and the answer would probably be that people want it.

Believe me, as a parent who has made the conscious decision to give up one income in order to have a parent stay home and raise the kids, I understand how difficult it is to manage. If this was a program intended at helping out parents, then they would give parents a choice and offer equal and fair subsidies to parents who choose to stay at home and raise their kids, encouraging parents to take an active role in the upbringing of their kids.

"equal and fair" is pretty hard to achieve, if you mean an agreement that an overwhelming majority agrees with. In the end, it will be skewed towards helping lower income folks in any case.

bleeding heart · August 7, 2012

We have a secularist society. I don't think we're just dealing with socialists or communists....

Communists?

What communists of actual and demonstrable influence exist in our society?

bleeding heart · August 7, 2012

That's the past. Society learned its mistake. We're talking now.

I was responding directly to socialist, who seems to support this sort of idea.

Edited August 7, 2012 by bleeding heart

socialist · August 7, 2012

I was responding directly to socialist, who seems to support this sort of idea.

I think governments have done a great job of making it hard for one parent to stay home. governments know that in order to remove all racism and intolerance they need to get all kids in government daycares and public schools at an early age. kids that spend more time in daycares and public schools are less likely to be influenced by some of their parents intolerance. i'm glad it is hard for parents to survive on one income, because if they allowed tax breaks for stay at homes many jobs would be lost in education and daycare workers. and to the neo cons who say this was started by left wing governments, which is true because they know what is best for us, then why hasn't harper and his government done anything to keep parents at home? some of you have no clue why the public school system is best for society.

bleeding heart · August 7, 2012

I think governments have done a great job of making it hard for one parent to stay home. governments know that in order to remove all racism and intolerance they need to get all kids in government daycares and public schools at an early age. kids that spend more time in daycares and public schools are less likely to be influenced by some of their parents intolerance. i'm glad it is hard for parents to survive on one income, because if they allowed tax breaks for stay at homes many jobs would be lost in education and daycare workers. and to the neo cons who say this was started by left wing governments, which is true because they know what is best for us, then why hasn't harper and his government done anything to keep parents at home? some of you have no clue why the public school system is best for society.

But even if I agreed with you, and I don't, what happens when a conservative government takes over the indoctrination of the children, because the damn liberal/lefty parents can't be trusted to inculcate the Proper Values?

Be careful what you wish for, in other words.

socialist · August 7, 2012

But even if I agreed with you, and I don't, what happens when a conservative government takes over the indoctrination of the children, because the damn liberal/lefty parents can't be trusted to inculcate the Proper Values?

Be careful what you wish for, in other words.

that will never happen because i know for fact that there are very few cons in department of educations. the left has controlled public schools since the 60s. that is why public education is so great.

Spiderfish · August 7, 2012

We do have common social values. If you don't agree with them, then you have many hours to indoctrinate your child against the common values of the nation.

Indoctrinate my child against common values of the nation?? Really? :rolleyes:

As a society, I agree we do have common values. If my moral and social values don't fall in line with common social values, it's comforting to know that I still have the right to participate in the moral/social development in my kids, even if it means putting up with judgmental and condemning statements from individuals who think they know what's best society as a whole. Imagine where we'd be right now if we just accepted common societal values without question, and didn't challenge them? We wouldn't be having this conversation right now, because a woman's place would still be at home, and they would be looking after the kids. Thank goodness for change.

Government, or politicians ? I suspect you're asking about the latter in reality, and the answer would probably be that people want it.

I don't want it. And I sure as hell don't want to have to help subsidize those who do.

"equal and fair" is pretty hard to achieve, if you mean an agreement that an overwhelming majority agrees with. In the end, it will be skewed towards helping lower income folks in any case.

Many if not all provinces already offer subsidized daycare for lower income families. I think this is important and necessary, but is separate to the issue of offering subsidized daycare to everyone. :rolleyes:

Edited August 7, 2012 by Spiderfish

socialist · August 7, 2012

At university i studied horace Mann, one of the earliest proponents of public education. here is what he said. i agree and am thankful top notch educators still agree with him.

We who are engaged in the sacred cause of education are entitled to look upon all parents as having given hostages to our cause.

Bonam · August 7, 2012

But even if I agreed with you, and I don't, what happens when a conservative government takes over the indoctrination of the children, because the damn liberal/lefty parents can't be trusted to inculcate the Proper Values?

Be careful what you wish for, in other words.

Why do you bother debating with a caricature like "socialist"?

socialist · August 7, 2012

Why do you bother debating with a caricature like "socialist"?

i guess he`s not a chicken#### like you.

GostHacked · August 7, 2012

Should we differentiate between 'government' and 'community' here ? We have an education system now, what's the matter with having early education to make it easier for working parents to manage ?

The role of the state is not parenting. But more and more they want to take the responsibility away from the parent and place that on the state. That would be fine if the state would take responsibility for the deficiencies of the system that really can't give a child the one on one with the parents that is required for healthy emotional growth. Do you want the state to mold your child or do you think that is a parents responsibility?

It's all about taking control away from the parents, and that is not something no one should advocate for.

GostHacked · August 7, 2012

that will never happen because i know for fact that there are very few cons in department of educations. the left has controlled public schools since the 60s. that is why public education is so great.

Never has a troll been so obvious. Clearly you are in the minority here, which is a good thing.

Yes it is great for creating mindless automatons that are smart enough to work the machines, but stupid enough to not ask why they need to run the machines. If you want the herd mentality, then yes public school is the best at training sheep who don't question things.