Homeschooling

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Let me simplify things for you then. I am a student for another half semester. Then I graduate and will be a fully licensed teacher. I already have 1.5 feet in the doorway. I will be teaching next year. That is fact whether you like it or not, and personally what you think means nothing to me. You don't know anything about public education.

Hey now.

What you describe is likely an American Education school attendee. (Went to a Diploma mill for almost 3x the cost of an Ontario Uni.) Ontario programs do not end halfway. They start in Sept and end in April. Only the bottom of the barrel accept anyone at anytime American Schools start halfway through the year.

Bottom of the barrel... not good enough to get into an Ontario University programs (For those that don't know, the enrolment grades are much higher in Ontario)...

If you want to get into specific job information: MORE NEW TEACHERS ARE UNEMPLOYED in their first school year than ever before. Nearly 70% of teachers are under or unemployed in the first year. From previous info, American Graduates are the LEAST LIKELY to find a job (they are bottom of the barrel of course)

[MiddleClassCentrist]

That teacher in Alberta gives us teachers who care a bad rap. How can you give zeros when it could cause a kid to not graduate high school? That's heartless. If I give 20 assignments in a year and a kid only completes 10 I can only assess on the 10 he did and not penalize him for ones he didn't do. That is a policy that many school divisions across Canada thankfully adhere to. This isn't 1950, but most of you have no clue about 21st century public education or 21st century skills that we are teaching kids.

Any teacher with some integrity knows that letting students get free passes is a bad idea, except for medical/emergency reasons.

[wyly]

The science backs that these students are more successful with like peers, not integrated at the bottom of peers. Our education policy is based on feel-good emotions, not objective realities.

The teachers I know have a word for when too many special cases destroy an entire year of young minds... It's called a crop failure. When there are too many special needs for regular teachers to run a consistently strong program for the kids who need it. Every year, the children are stuck with the same high maintenance students who disrupt their learning. The accumulative effect is staggering.

The sad reality is that many of these "integrated" students are likely just going to end up on permanent government assistance. Meanwhile, we are sacrificing the education of young people who might have contributed to the economy.

but then there is my kids high school which is among the best in alberta and it has nearly 28% ESL students and over 8% special needs students...the private schools claim better results but they take 0% ESL students and 0% special needs...special needs are not the cause of educational deficiencies, they're an excuse... Edited August 3, 2012 by wyly

[MiddleClassCentrist]

but then there is my kids high school which is among the best in alberta and it has nearly 28% ESL students and over 8% special needs students...the private schools claim better results but they take 0% ESL students and 0% special needs...special needs are not the cause of educational deficiencies, they're an excuse...

ESL is not a disability, FYI. Top students in my local area are often ESL.

Special needs of 8% is hard to gauge because if students have simple accomodations like "print notes" etc. They are likely not the high maintenance ones that I am speaking of. The integrate at all costs ones.

Edited August 3, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[wyly]

ESL is not a disability, FYI.

Special needs of 8% is hard to gauge because if students have simple accomodations like "print notes" etc.

ESL is a learning disability FYI...ESL kids are at a considerable disadvantage and require much more attention then Canadian kids...

They are likely not the high maintenance once that I am speaking of.

hmm kids laying on the floor the entire day fits my definition of high maintenance...disruptive, mentally handicapped they're all there...

I know my kids local schools well they put extra effort to helping the disadvantaged ...

[Guest Derek L]

The science backs that these students are more successful with like peers, not integrated at the bottom of peers. Our education policy is based on feel-good emotions, not objective realities.

The teachers I know have a word for when too many special cases destroy an entire year of young minds... It's called a crop failure. When there are too many special needs for regular teachers to run a consistently strong program for the kids who need it. Every year, the children are stuck with the same high maintenance students who disrupt their learning. The accumulative effect is staggering.

The sad reality is that many of these "integrated" students are likely just going to end up on permanent government assistance. Meanwhile, we are sacrificing the education of young people who might have contributed to the economy.

I agree with your sentiments to a certain extent, unfortunately society in general has adopted the “feel good mentality” over understood realities in a great many subjects………..clearly bucking said trend openly is a effective way to be labelled “extremist”………

[Bonam]

ESL is a learning disability FYI...ESL kids are at a considerable disadvantage and require much more attention then Canadian kids..

Funny, I didn't feel much disabled even though English was my third language when I started school in Canada... people just want to call everything a "disability" these days. Craziness.

FYI, learning a second (or third) language is an advantage, not a disability.

[GostHacked]

Funny, I didn't feel much disabled even though English was my third language when I started school in Canada... people just want to call everything a "disability" these days. Craziness.

FYI, learning a second (or third) language is an advantage, not a disability.

Craziness, yes!

Learning a second language at a young age will be very advantageous for them later on. I only speak english and understand a small bit of german and french. The stuff I missed out in conversations because of the other languages. It's also good communication skills that will result in knowing more languages.

If it is a 'disability' it would only be for a short time until some words are picked up on. Also the ability to learn a second language come easier to a child than when you become an adult.

[Argus]

How do you figure? My goodness, it seems every wingnut thinks they know something about public education.

Gee. Imagine that. Just because most have gone through 13 or so years of it and have kids going through it they think they know something about it.

[Argus]

That teacher in Alberta gives us teachers who care a bad rap. How can you give zeros when it could cause a kid to not graduate high school? That's heartless. If I give 20 assignments in a year and a kid only completes 10 I can only assess on the 10 he did and not penalize him for ones he didn't do. That is a policy that many school divisions across Canada thankfully adhere to. This isn't 1950, but most of you have no clue about 21st century public education or 21st century skills that we are teaching kids.

This is the kind of post that makes me sure this is nothing but an exercise in trolling. It seems deliberately designed to outrage anyone who actually cares about children being properly educated and held to task for completing assignments as directed.

[guyser]

What do you do to help society?

I Try to convince school boards not to hire you.

But that may not be a prob. Maybe some admins read MLW and put 2 and 2 together.

[socialist]

This is the kind of post that makes me sure this is nothing but an exercise in trolling. It seems deliberately designed to outrage anyone who actually cares about children being properly educated and held to task for completing assignments as directed.

Then why did that teacher get suspended? I feel the same way as the principal and superintendent. My views are not solo.

[wyly]

Craziness, yes!

Learning a second language at a young age will be very advantageous for them later on. I only speak english and understand a small bit of german and french. The stuff I missed out in conversations because of the other languages. It's also good communication skills that will result in knowing more languages.

If it is a 'disability' it would only be for a short time until some words are picked up on. Also the ability to learn a second language come easier to a child than when you become an adult.

ESL students require 5-7 yrs to become academically proficient...they require instruction from ESL qualified instructors which is often lacking...ESL students have a dropout rate of 60-74%, compare that to the national average of about 8%...

it's no accident that many elite private academies refuse ESL admittance, ESL students lower the schools academic high grade average which is their primary marketing tool...

speaking a 2nd language fluently can be advantageous in life but there is no doubt it's a handicap to learning...

[AngusThermopyle]

Let me simplify things for you then. I am a student for another half semester.

Well let me simplify things for you, you are a student, nothing more.

As to being a teacher at some point in the future, well I have my doubts as to that.

Is that simple enough for you? Should I draw a picture? In crayon perhaps?

My goodness, it seems every wingnut thinks they know something about public education.

Indeed, all one has to do is read your opinions and that fact becomes very apparent.

Edited August 3, 2012 by AngusThermopyle

[Wild Bill]

Then why did that teacher get suspended? I feel the same way as the principal and superintendent. My views are not solo.

You are correct that your views are not "solo" (didn't realize that word was an adjective! Oh well, I guess I spent too much time with rote) as long as we're talking about within the educational system. It is unfortunately true that many in the "system" think as you do.

However, as far as working in the private sector, your views are an anomaly.

A businessman only cares about a diploma as a means to keep the number of applicants down to a workable level and as a general guide to an applicant's qualifications. Once he or she has been hired, if he can't do the job he is let go. Nobody cares how YOU feel about it!

Except maybe those of your students that can't hold jobs. If they reflect upon WHY that is so and think about how they were educated they may indeed form an opinion!

[socialist]

The fact that there are four people on here who think homeschooling is better than public schooling makes me fear for this country and causes me to vomit. This country is going downhill fast.

[Bonam]

ESL students require 5-7 yrs to become academically proficient...they require instruction from ESL qualified instructors which is often lacking...

No what they need is immersion in the language (rather than segregation in a class full of other kids that also don't speak English), and it takes a year or two at most to catch up when you are a young child and have the ability to quickly learn languages.

it's no accident that many elite private academies refuse ESL admittance, ESL students lower the schools academic high grade average which is their primary marketing tool...

Of course it can be useful to have a bit of extra resources to help kids catch up in learning a language that they did not grow up with. And of course some private schools may not want to invest in those resources. That does not make it a "disability".

speaking a 2nd language fluently can be advantageous in life but there is no doubt it's a handicap to learning...

Nope, it is a huge boon to learning. Having known 4 languages (English, Russian, French, Hebrew) has helped me tremendously, and has resulted in me having deeper insights into each of those languages than had I only known one. By knowing different languages, you can see how the origins and roots of words interrelate, and you gain an almost instinctive grasp of some facets of etymology and linguistics that a monolingual individual could gain only with great difficulty by studying linguistics at the university level. Furthermore, since much of human thinking is linguistic, thought patterns are shaped to a certain extent by the structure and vocabulary of the language one thinks in. Being able to think in multiple languages allows one to consider the same concept or problem from multiple perspectives, and this can often be an aid to learning.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Bonam

[madmax]

i'm surprised at how wrong you are. why do many neo-con parents homeschool. you can call me names or whatever ives you your jollies but you need to think about what you write. if you are not in the public education system then your comments dont have any backing. tell me what i preach? take a look at how the swedes are dealing with homeschoolers for a real life example. do some research before you speak your non knowing crapola.

I know many parents that home school, they are not Neo Con, many are Socialists who don't believe in the corporatizing of the public school system and much of the inferior Americanized Standardized testing nonsense.

That said, problems can occur as one of my Social Conservative friends homeschooled 7 of her children, with the biggest surprise being one making / faking it to the age of 12 and not learning how to read.

I don't believe in banning homeschooling.... I think parents should be involved in their childrens education...

I don't think I need to subsidize it though.

[madmax]

The fact that there are four people on here who think homeschooling is better than public schooling makes me fear for this country and causes me to vomit. This country is going downhill fast.

Depends where you live. I would say Ontario Had the best Public School system up until Mike Harris created a friggin mess. Its been Patched up but nothing like the good old days. It might be in this regards that I think Premier Davis excelled above and beyond all premiers regarding primary secondary and even post secondary school system.

Fix Public Education, change the funding formula, make it accessible to rural schools, basically undo all the Harris F*K ups and fewer people would be looking for other options.

I recall Music Equipment being brought in during my shcol years and never having seen an orchestra before, not knowing a clarinet, and learning how to do a drum riff was a blast. I was in Grade 7 when this occurred.

By the time my nephews got in, Harris gutted this kind of stuff, portable shut down and all equipment given away or melted down I guess.

Harris was the biggest IThead of a Premier when it came to education. I think he was a failure as a teacher and was bitter, if I was giving a Freudian opinion.

Edited August 3, 2012 by madmax

[socialist]

Depends where you live. I would say Ontario Had the best Public School system up until Mike Harris created a friggin mess. Its been Patched up but nothing like the good old days. It might be in this regards that I think Premier Davis excelled above and beyond all premiers regarding primary secondary and even post secondary school system.

Fix Public Education, change the funding formula, make it accessible to rural schools, basically undo all the Harris F*K ups and fewer people would be looking for other options.

I recall Music Equipment being brought in during my shcol years and never having seen an orchestra before, not knowing a clarinet, and learning how to do a drum riff was a blast. I was in Grade 7 when this occurred.

By the time my nephews got in, Harris gutted this kind of stuff, portable shut down and all equipment given away or melted down I guess.

Harris was the biggest IThead of a Premier when it came to education. I think he was a failure as a teacher and was bitter, if I was giving a Freudian opinion.

Mike Harris = neo-Con = Crappy education. Thanks for reaffirming what I've been saying all along. Provinces with left wing governments have the best public school systems and they listen to the recommendations of teacher unions. My friends in Manitoba tell me their public system is top notch because of the NDP government's co-operation and willingness to listen to the Manitoba teachers union. It's nice to talk to someone who understands public education unlike 80% of the dolts on this forum who pretend to know something. I won't mention names yet.

[Shady]

Teacher's unions don't look out for kids. They look out for their own wallets.

[socialist]

Teacher's unions don't look out for kids. They look out for their own wallets.

Proof? Oh, none? Typical right wing ranter.

[wyly]

I know many parents that home school, they are not Neo Con, many are Socialists who don't believe in the corporatizing of the public school system and much of the inferior Americanized Standardized testing nonsense.

That said, problems can occur as one of my Social Conservative friends homeschooled 7 of her children, with the biggest surprise being one making / faking it to the age of 12 and not learning how to read.

I don't believe in banning homeschooling.... I think parents should be involved in their childrens education...

I don't think I need to subsidize it though.

I only know of one family that did home schooling, a very progressive left wing family, the mother did all the teaching and the kids turned out exceptionally well...

[madmax]

I only know of one family that did home schooling, a very progressive left wing family, the mother did all the teaching and the kids turned out exceptionally well...

Erm... FYI all 7 kids mentioned in my example turnout exceptionally well. A kid has to be very crafty and smart to get through without learning how to read.... and once it was discovered.... well, you can imagine the extra effort put forth to get her up to speed...

[Argus]

Then why did that teacher get suspended? I feel the same way as the principal and superintendent. My views are not solo.

Yes, there are some pretty dumb ideas rolling around in the empty heads of MOE administrators. They're ideas that sounded great in the meeting rooms and in the business cases, but are really dumb in real-world application. I get that. You could just put that case instead of trying for a kind of reverse psychology thing.