madmax Posted September 12, 2012 Report Posted September 12, 2012 It's amusing to watch you dance around every subject while not actually admitting the underlying ideals that you subscribe to, but every once in a while...When I read you're post i see an occupy protestor, a student protestor, people pretending they are fighting about an issue when in reality they want to tear down the whole system, you know the one that makes this one of the very best places in the world. But you could do it better, you know the right way, extremists always do. Ideals sound like A fair days work for a fair days pay from what I have read. Quote
socialist Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Posted September 12, 2012 It's amusing to watch you dance around every subject while not actually admitting the underlying ideals that you subscribe to, but every once in a while...When I read you're post i see an occupy protestor, a student protestor, people pretending they are fighting about an issue when in reality they want to tear down the whole system, you know the one that makes this one of the very best places in the world. But you could do it better, you know the right way, extremists always do. teachers have very important jobs. the mold the minds of todays youth to accept all and to be tolerant of all. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
TheNewTeddy Posted September 12, 2012 Report Posted September 12, 2012 Chicago's teachers are on strike. They are demanding more money for Students. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
socialist Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Posted September 12, 2012 Chicago's teachers are on strike. They are demanding more money for Students. Correct. Teachers are there for the students. i can't believe rahm emmanuel wants to pick this fiht with those who have supported him in the past. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
MiddleClassCentrist Posted September 12, 2012 Report Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Chicago's teachers are on strike. They are demanding more money for Students. This is actually true, They were offered a large wage increase(16% over 4 years I believe) and they turned it down in favour of trying to get better working/classroom conditions. Edited September 12, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
westguy Posted September 12, 2012 Report Posted September 12, 2012 teachers have very important jobs. the mold the minds of todays youth to accept all and to be tolerant of all. I agree but it doesn't seem to have had any influence on yourself. Quote
socialist Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Posted September 13, 2012 Public education continues to evolve into an institution that promotes equality and diversity. In one of my classes we discussed what will happen In the Durham School Board. Policies like these make me excited to enter the profession. It's too bad that some people just don't and never will get it. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/11/durham-region-teachers-given-language-guidelines?utm_source=addThis&utm_medium=addthis_button_email&utm_campaign=Durham+Region+teachers+given+language+guidelines+ Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
TheNewTeddy Posted September 13, 2012 Report Posted September 13, 2012 You are ignoring all the responses given by anyone else and just spamming this thread with your own links now. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
socialist Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Posted September 13, 2012 You are ignoring all the responses given by anyone else and just spamming this thread with your own links now. how do you figure? there is nothing more to debate. teachers aren't going on strike and mcguinty is begging teachers not to stop extra curricular activities. too bad mcuinty. teachers gotta do what they need to do. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
TheNewTeddy Posted September 13, 2012 Report Posted September 13, 2012 how do you figure? there is nothing more to debate. teachers aren't going on strike and mcguinty is begging teachers not to stop extra curricular activities. too bad mcuinty. teachers gotta do what they need to do. I'll increase the size of the text because it seems you keep missing the point. You do not have public support. Why are you not even trying to win public support? Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
socialist Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Posted September 13, 2012 I'll increase the size of the text because it seems you keep missing the point. You do not have public support. Why are you not even trying to win public support? look at all the support we had in queen's park in august. take of the blindfold already. we have lots of support. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
TheNewTeddy Posted September 13, 2012 Report Posted September 13, 2012 You support yourselves Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
TheNewTeddy Posted September 13, 2012 Report Posted September 13, 2012 Anyway, I have far better things to do - like replay Final Fantasy I for the NES - so I will stop following this thread. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
Wild Bill Posted September 13, 2012 Report Posted September 13, 2012 look at all the support we had in queen's park in august. take of the blindfold already. we have lots of support. You brought your own choir and call that public support? In the immortal words of Monty Python, "You ARE a loony!" :lol: Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
socialist Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Posted September 13, 2012 Anyway, I have far better things to do - like replay Final Fantasy I for the NES - so I will stop following this thread. play Video games all day. Must be nice. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
socialist Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) You brought your own choir and call that public support? In the immortal words of Monty Python, "You ARE a loony!" :lol: bill i was there. were you? i know a majority of the people there were not teachers, just people who support teachers and the public education system. Edited September 13, 2012 by socialist Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
madmax Posted September 13, 2012 Report Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) bill i was there. were you? i know a majority of the people there were not teachers, just people who support teachers and the public education system. Yes you were at a rally in August when teachers weren't working. Participation =5000 Number of Teachers affected= 114,000 That is a low participation rate, less then 5% for a rally, when everyone affected could attend if htey so choose However, Of those 5,000, not all were teachers. Many were from various public and private sector unions, supporting the right to collective bargaining. That is a staple product of any Union. On any given day all the Union activists could pull 2,000 to 5,000. So, that leaves very little rooom for people outside of the choir that WB has described. Regardless, if you have people onside, I don't believe it will take much listening on their part to be turned off by your opinion. You have developed a tin ear for a teacher or upcoming teacher. I hope you realize a discussion is a two way street. And if you held a rally and the majority of those in attendance were not teachers..... That is a bad omen.....considering the size of the rally and the timing. Now, part II If you want to turn off those onside, Work To Rule is just the tool. no one is going to accept voluntary removal of participation of student activities as a smart negotiating tool against the government. The Teachers need only target the government that overrode the bargaining process. Targeting the classroom is a flawed strategy as this battle is not withing the classroom or even schoolboard. It will require more smarts then the current tactics on display. Edited September 13, 2012 by madmax Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted September 13, 2012 Report Posted September 13, 2012 I'll increase the size of the text because it seems you keep missing the point. YouTeachers do not have public support. Why are youTeachers not even trying to win public support? He is not a teacher, nor will he ever be a teacher. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
socialist Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Posted September 13, 2012 He is not a teacher, nor will he ever be a teacher. not yet and yes i will. 7 months to go. i won't be doing any extra curriculars either if this gov't doesn't allow good faith bargaining. parents need to let mcguinty know he is wrong on this and hurting their children. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
MiddleClassCentrist Posted September 13, 2012 Report Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) The Teachers need only target the government that overrode the bargaining process. Targeting the classroom is a flawed strategy as this battle is not withing the classroom or even schoolboard. It will require more smarts then the current tactics on display. I disagree. You can't target a government right after an election. But, you can piss the general public off on how the situation has been handled. Most students who can actually participate in sports are there because their parents paid for them to be schooled in athletics since they were young. They'll have to settle for playing with their iPhones instead... They'll be pissed and cry bloody murder but, they aren't being hurt. What teacher unions should do is say "Hey, we aren't doing it. Anyone in the community want to volunteer their time?" Then the community has no one to blame but themselves. But that'd require a criminal record check so it'd be a few months, and a government/board policy change to allow parents as coaches. Infact, I encourage any parent to start pushing for parents to be able to legally coach school teams without teacher supervision. Edited September 13, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Boges Posted September 14, 2012 Report Posted September 14, 2012 It's shame that these teacher went this way. I feel bad for these kids. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/education/article/1256482--teacher-boycotts-hit-curriculum-nights-as-well-as-sports-clubs Teachers at Toronto’s Winona Drive Senior Public School refused Thursday to take part in family “curriculum night” to protest Ontario’s controversial new wage-freeze law. The move startled families already worried about a boycott of after-school programs but who never thought it would include the traditional fall “meet the teacher” nights. “It’s disappointing because the reason you come is to meet the teacher and see the classroom,” said parent Rick Suvanto. “Instead, the teachers aren’t here, the classrooms are closed and we are given handouts that the kids could have just as easily brought home.” After days of province-wide angst about how teachers might fight back, local after-school boycotts began Thursday with what some called a Wild West lack of order. Two York Region high schools — Stephen Lewis Secondary School and Woodbridge College — have scrapped after-school sports. Toronto’s Maurice Cody Public School has stopped its popular cross-country program. Schools across Toronto sent home letters announcing the cancellation of choirs and band, while some trustees fear more boycotts of curriculum night. Teachers at one Waterloo school warn they will meet parents on their curriculum night outside the school — on a picket line. You can't say it's "about the kids" when you do crap like this. Quote
madmax Posted September 14, 2012 Report Posted September 14, 2012 It's shame that these teacher went this way. I feel bad for these kids. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/education/article/1256482--teacher-boycotts-hit-curriculum-nights-as-well-as-sports-clubs You can't say it's "about the kids" when you do crap like this. I don't think its the right move, I don't think it wins hearts and minds. I have heard the reason for this action and I just think its an unwise and poor choice and makes the teachers look bad. If my job was crap and it got crappier, I doubt I would stop volunteering just because I am getting dumped on or scape goated. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted September 14, 2012 Report Posted September 14, 2012 The 'about the kids' meme is just a political football that gets kicked around. It's not germane to the discussion, but it gives emotional colour to the argument for people who would rather follow it from that angle. This is a labour negotiation. It's about money, period. Either side may pretend it's about something else but it is not. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
MiddleClassCentrist Posted September 14, 2012 Report Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) The 'about the kids' meme is just a political football that gets kicked around. It's not germane to the discussion, but it gives emotional colour to the argument for people who would rather follow it from that angle. This is a labour negotiation. It's about money, period. Either side may pretend it's about something else but it is not. This isn't even about money any more. This is about rights, something the MSM has completely avoided mentioning... "An Act to implement restraint measures in the education sector" (Real Bill Name) Putting Students First Act (Short Name... lol) - http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?BillID=2665&Intranet=&locale=en Bill 115 declares that the government is above the constitution and all law when it comes to matters relating to teachers. 14. (1) The Ontario Labour Relations Board shall not inquire into or make a decision on whether a provision of this Act, a regulation or an order made under subsection 9 (2) is constitutionally valid or is in conflict with the Human Rights Code.15. (1) No term or condition included in an employment contract or collective agreement under or by virtue of this Act, process for consultation prescribed under this Act, or decision, approval, act, advice, direction, regulation or order made by the Minister or Lieutenant Governor in Council under this Act shall be questioned or reviewed in any court. It also allows the Government the ability to reach into any agreement between union and school board to cancel any clauses it doesn't like, even though they had been negotiated fairly. That's just horse crap. Edited September 14, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Michael Hardner Posted September 14, 2012 Report Posted September 14, 2012 This isn't even about money any more. This is about rights, something the MSM has completely avoided mentioning... Sure - the right to get money. It also allows the Government the ability to reach into any agreement between union and school board to cancel any clauses it doesn't like, even though they had been negotiated fairly. That's just horse crap. It's not like the Ontario Liberals haven't played tricky with laws before - remember the G20 ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
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