Signals.Cpl Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 this was... is... your chance to showcase just what's been delivered. Let's have you substantiate that ~20+ billion a year being spent on the Canadian military... inquiring minds are relying upon you! Chinooks,Sikorsky CH-148 Cyclone's, Ships have been ordered, Improved Infrastructure on bases,C-17's, CC-130J's, UAV's, MSVS, Leopard 2's, Cougar's, Buffalo's, Husky VMMD's, Rebuilding the trades that were nearly destroyed by the Liberals... I could go on but it gets boring after a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 no - see ideological driven Harper Conservative prioritization. Interesting in that, apparently, given the negative international focus on some of the idiotic cuts, Harper Conservatives are beginning to, 'walk some of it back'... I guess that means the related jobs are still required, hey? I don't think the cuts went deep enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 nothing showcases your trumped up talking point better than having Harper Conservative Defense Minister Peter MacKay fumble his War of 1812 history lesson. Uhhh... do you actually know which side the French were on? (Does the MacKay fumble make him less a Canadian? ) The French Canadians? They were on our side but hey I wouldn't expect you to know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 so now you double-down on your juvenile tirade by calling the late Jack Layton a 'nobody' and labeling him as, 'Dear Leader'. What's beyond sensible is you dredging up a death, a funeral and associated costs... simply because your sensitivities can't accept legitimate criticism/challenge to military (and ancillary) costs. If the Layton funeral costs so trouble you I trust you will carry through and contact the Harper Conservative PMO to ascertain just how much money the state funeral cost Canada... I suggest you also register your concern over Harper agreeing to spend the monies associated with the funeral. Make sure to update MLW in an appropriate thread - perhaps even start up a new dedicated thread for maximum effect - thanks in advance.He was the the GG nor was he the PM...guess what he wasn't even a Cabinet Minister he was nobody deserving or needing a state funeral. Its funny how you can insult conservatives left,right and centre but god forbid someone dislike Layton. As for the Dear Leader...that is well deserved.You seem to be the one who cannot accept criticism, all I'm asking is what was the cost for the funeral and what did it do for Canada? The 1812 bicentennial is and important historical event that shaped our country, while Layton's death and subsequent state funeral did not do anything to shape or improve Canada, it was simply a political move sort of a pacifier for the NDP. again, your now acknowledged dislike for the late Jack Layton... and funeral cost concerns, obviously, have nothing to do with this subject matter discussion. Your superficial small-minded myopia is well presented. Speaking to history and country shaping... is a bona fide position on your part. Gutter swipes concerning the late Jack Layton have no place in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 this was... is... your chance to showcase just what's been delivered. Let's have you substantiate that ~20+ billion a year being spent on the Canadian military... inquiring minds are relying upon you!Sikorsky CH-148 Cyclone's... I could go on but it gets boring after a while. perfect! Other than the JSFail F-35 circumstance, I'll gladly grab onto the Cyclone as another case in point highlighting yet another failed DND procurement undertaking. I'd suggest if this is representative of your "knowledge" of military procurement... Canada is the sole military customer for the Sikorsky H-92... apparently, being the 'guinea pig' has it's consequences, hey? So, another multi-billion dollar adventure... one that gets even richer when we're now advised, given the Sikorsky delay, frigates that were adapted to fly the CH-148 must be retrofitted to go back to flying Sea Kings! $6 billion dollars later... New military helicopters may not be ready for 5 years Canada’s long-promised fleet of new Sikorsky naval helicopters, already four years late and $300 million over budget, likely won’t be delivered and ready for combat for up to another five years, informed industry sources tell CBC News. But industry insiders familiar with the Sikorsky project say the Cyclone helicopters being built for Canada are a new design with a lot of sophisticated electronics and military mission systems that aren’t yet even installed, all of which will take years to integrate and become combat-ready. Repeated calls to Sikorsky were not returned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 nothing showcases your trumped up talking point better than having Harper Conservative Defense Minister Peter MacKay fumble his War of 1812 history lesson. Uhhh... do you actually know which side the French were on? (Does the MacKay fumble make him less a Canadian? ) The French Canadians? They were on our side but hey I wouldn't expect you to know that. oh my! 1812??? French Canadians??? Clearly, your history knowledge parallels that of Harper Conservative Defense Minister Peter MacKay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 again, your now acknowledged dislike for the late Jack Layton... and funeral cost concerns, obviously, have nothing to do with this subject matter discussion. Your superficial small-minded myopia is well presented. Speaking to history and country shaping... is a bona fide position on your part. Gutter swipes concerning the late Jack Layton have no place in this thread. Neither does the War of 1812 discussions but hey as long as it furthers YOUR agenda its ok right? And I never hid my dislike for the dear leader nor did I ever hide my disapproval for the waste of tax payer money for his completely undeserved state funeral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 perfect! Other than the JSFail F-35 circumstance, I'll gladly grab onto the Cyclone as another case in point highlighting yet another failed DND procurement undertaking. I'd suggest if this is representative of your "knowledge" of military procurement... Canada is the sole military customer for the Sikorsky H-92... apparently, being the 'guinea pig' has it's consequences, hey? So, another multi-billion dollar adventure... one that gets even richer when we're now advised, given the Sikorsky delay, frigates that were adapted to fly the CH-148 must be retrofitted to go back to flying Sea Kings! $6 billion dollars later... New military helicopters may not be ready for 5 years So we have to wait until someone else buys equipment before we purchase it? Should we wait for more Cf personnel to die in preventable helicopter crashes because we don't want to be the first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Neither does the War of 1812 discussions but hey as long as it furthers YOUR agenda its ok right? And I never hid my dislike for the dear leader nor did I ever hide my disapproval for the waste of tax payer money for his completely undeserved state funeral. in the OP thread context concerning the increased militarization of the Harper Conservative view of Canada... discussing a $28 million dollar war celebration expenditure by Harper Conservatives is most apropos. You continuing to dredge up and flog the late Jack Layton's funeral has no relation to, no bearing upon, this thread. It's simply you gutter-sniping; nothing more, nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 oh my! 1812??? French Canadians??? Clearly, your history knowledge parallels that of Harper Conservative Defense Minister Peter MacKay! You know those French Speaking people in Lower Canada, who fought side by side with the militia of Upper Canada and the British Regulars. You know the French people who live in Quebec, AKA French Canadians but hey I know that whatever the Conservative government says you must automatically oppose and thus rewrite history to fit your agenda. You seem to criticize but you present your fail to present the evidence that Lower Canada fought on the Side of the US. Your lack of knowledge amazes me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 in the OP thread context concerning the increased militarization of the Harper Conservative view of Canada... discussing a $28 million dollar war celebration expenditure by Harper Conservatives is most apropos. You continuing to dredge up and flog the late Jack Layton's funeral has no relation to, no bearing upon, this thread. It's simply you gutter-sniping; nothing more, nothing less. How does the war of 1812 "militarize" Canada? Maybe we should stop teaching World War 1, and World War 2 history in school lest we "militarize" our youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 So we have to wait until someone else buys equipment before we purchase it? Should we wait for more Cf personnel to die in preventable helicopter crashes because we don't want to be the first? your 'being the first' has consequences, hey? Taxpayer consequences, hey? You simply regurgitated yet another bullet item listing; one you clearly know nothing about. Nice touch adding in that, "personnel will die" ditty, hey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 AKA French Canadians the war of 1812 "AKA French Canadians"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
login Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) How does the war of 1812 "militarize" Canada? Maybe we should stop teaching World War 1, and World War 2 history in school lest we "militarize" our youth. It is in effect war peopaganada. If you were to focus on issues suchas the abuses the Quakers faced at the hands of the British in York or the high cost of the war, it might present the real effects. However a bunch of battle simulations without casualties aside from the odd case of heat stroke, and fireworks is just a dramitization to make the war a specticle and cover over and gloss up the war. There is in my opinion too much focus on war in the classrooms, it is only 10 or so years of well over a century of Canada. It brings back remberance day ceremonies as a day of war. What about korea, yugoslavia, iraq, afghanistan or libya, what happened to those conflicts. Edited July 28, 2012 by login Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunrutz Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Some of the posts in this thread have a "troops in the streets" feel to them, we have a military history and a modest military at present, The idea that Canada is becoming militaristic because the current government sees more value in supporting the present and remembering the past a little more than previous governments is absolutely ludicrous. Only a true extremist would worry about Canada becoming too militaristic, it is a non issue for the vast majority of us, and anyone reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 The idea that Canada is becoming militaristic because the current government sees more value in supporting the present and remembering the past a little more than previous governments is absolutely ludicrous. as you say, the idea that... you would ignore an earlier reference to, for example, 'force projection' policy/preparations, in favour of continuing the distracting over-emphasis on a particular war celebration expenditure... is, as you say, absolutely ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Um.... Still will be 20% higher than when he had taken power. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Those civil servants are loosing their jobs because their jobs are no longer required. Don't worry,come 2015 the NDP will be giving a handful of generals their pink slips,because their jobs will no longer be required. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 You seem to be the one who cannot accept criticism, all I'm asking is what was the cost for the funeral and what did it do for Canada? The 1812 bicentennial is and important historical event that shaped our country, while Layton's death and subsequent state funeral did not do anything to shape or improve Canada, it was simply a political move sort of a pacifier for the NDP. You know what else was important in shaping our history? The British with the help of the Americans taking over French Canada and the American revolutionary war. In Harpers war of 1812 reenactments,native Canadian war heroes are not even mentioned.Nor are there any natives in the reenactments. This is called "Harper's history". Whites need only apply! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 You seem to be the one who cannot accept criticism, all I'm asking is what was the cost for the funeral and what did it do for Canada? The 1812 bicentennial is and important historical event that shaped our country, while Layton's death and subsequent state funeral did not do anything to shape or improve Canada, it was simply a political move sort of a pacifier for the NDP. You know what else was important in shaping our history? The British with the help of the Americans taking over French Canada and the American revolutionary war. In Harpers war of 1812 reenactments,native Canadian war heroes are not even mentioned.Nor are there any natives in the reenactments. This is called "Harper's history". Whites need only apply! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 oh my! 1812??? French Canadians??? Clearly, your history knowledge parallels that of Harper Conservative Defense Minister Peter MacKay! Actually I read that article about Peter McKay's speech at the French embassy. And Peter McKay did not error. This is because the French Canadians 200 years ago still considered themselves as French. However if he said "France" as opposed to French he would have gaffed! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 It brings back remberance day ceremonies as a day of war. What about korea, yugoslavia, iraq, afghanistan or libya, what happened to those conflicts. Better yet,what happened to the victims? And not just the victims at the hands of our enemies but the victims of our military? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Some of the posts in this thread have a "troops in the streets" feel to them Nope. However for you to enter this debate there must be a greater level of an underhanded scripting under way by the Harper opposition. And since that's not the case you have to make things up. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 So we have to wait until someone else buys equipment before we purchase it? Should we wait for more Cf personnel to die in preventable helicopter crashes because we don't want to be the first? The poorly selected Cyclone was a political choice……..nothing more, nothing less, in that it wasn’t DND’s first (EH-101) or second (Empty EH-101 with Sea King missions systems installed) choice on Maritime Helicopters and shouldn’t have been selected………This wasn’t a reflection on DND but the Martin Liberal Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 By the following article, their view is that Canada's military has increased in personnel and expense to prepared for war. Now I know some Canadians want a strong and bigger military and with the harmonizing our Canadian military to the US,those are getting their wish. I can understand having a nilitary of some strength but are Canadians ready for "search and kill" expeditions tied to NATO and the US? Thoughts? After all, having a military means people are trained to kill, at least in these days. http://www.ipolitics...rvative-canada/ I'm just curious but who's words are "preparing for war", increasing our numbers over a 10 year period from 56,000 to 67,000 over a ten year period is not preparing for war by any stretch of the imagination. Which currently places us in 74 th postion in comparison to the rest of the world. which is somehow suppose to lead readers into believing we are preparing for world, that Canada is becoming a Militarised nation, and you whats funney alot of people are believing this crap, even the media is pumping this crap out... We as in men and women of the armed forces have listened for years how Canadians have supported us, in fact most have said our military needs to increase in size, as it is to small to handle even a small earth quake in Vancover let alone a military crises some where in canada or abroad. Now the government takes action strugles to increase our manpower by 11,000 over a 10 year period , yes the math is correct thats a whopping 1100 troops a year....and now we are turning Canada into a militarised nation....preparing for war....Maybe instead of whinning we should be asking why a industrialized nation such as Canada can not meet it's orginal goals of 70,000 k , why do we struggle to increase our numbers by a meager 1100 people out of a nation that has on avg 36 million, and when people are clamouring for jobs.... Just so we are clear because SIGS CPL has already covered this piont, The primary job that we in the military are trained for is to close with and destroy the enemy...not Ice storms, not fight forest fires, not to search for lost people not dart missions, not peace keeping .... But to kill people...it's recorded in our military history and can be traced all the way back to it's orgins....yes i'm talking about the Canadian military....time to get use to that fact...we can't change our colors because you have grown into this touchy feely person, and don't like to think your neibor is capable of taking a life....the world is full of people with big sticks and they like to use them... Want to see what preparing for war looks like here is the starting postion of Canada's reg Military before the start of WWII i'll let you see how much it grows. In just 6 years. King and Canadian Foreign and Military Policy: 1921-1938 In 1921, William Lyon Mackenzie King became prime minister, and Canada embarked upon a policy of isolation. King instructed the Canadian delegation at the League of Nations to propose amendments to Article X of the League's covenant. This was the clause that prescribed military intervention by member states to prevent international aggression. The Liberal prime minister was completely opposed to any Canadian military involvement in the maintenance of international security. The Liberal government set the peacetime strength of the army at 10,000 officers and men. The permanent force was comprised of the Royal Canadian Artillery, two cavalry regiments (the Royal Canadian Dragoons and Lord Strathcona's Horse), and three infantry battalions (the Royal 22nd Regiment, the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, and the Royal Canadian Regiment). The Royal Canadian Navy was also greatly reduced in size and, by 1939, would have a strength of 15 ships manned by 1,000 officers and men. CDN Military prior to WW II DND 2011 DND from 2000-2010 DND 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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