Syria moving checmical weapons

[kraychik]

Pretty much...this is Syria we're talking about, not oil rich Libya. Make it worth my while for blood and treasure.

Signals.Cpl has a frightening approach towards foreign policy. He really seems to want to place the security of Canadian soldiers at risk in order to intervene with Arabs killing Arabs. Perhaps this is some sort of moral grandstanding on his part? It makes no sense, whatsoever. Remember that Signals.Cpl has openly stated that he wants a more powerful United Nations with more influence over the decision-making in the institution to be transferred to third-world trash countries and tyrannies.

Edited July 18, 2012 by kraychik

[DogOnPorch]

It's not the number of people killed that determines genocide.

Over 200,000 people were killed in the American Civil War. Would it have been preferable or constructive if countries around the world got involved and lined up behind their chosen side?

Lincoln made sure that was a non-starter. But the South was trying for just that result.

[bush_cheney2004]

..... Remember that Signals.Cpl has openly stated that he wants a more powerful United Nations with more influence over the decision-making in the institution to be transferred to third-world trash countries and tyrannies.

That's fine, but one shouldn't write checks that have to be cashed with other nation's blood and money.

[kraychik]

That's fine, but one shouldn't write checks that have to be cashed with other nation's blood and money.

It could be another case of Canadian freeloading off of American security guarantees.

[bush_cheney2004]

It could be another case of Canadian freeloading off of American security guarantees.

That didn't work out so well for General Dallaire, but he did get a book deal.

[kraychik]

That didn't work out so well for General Dallaire, but he did get a book deal.

And movie rights.

[DogOnPorch]

You'll be a good mocker, yet, kraychik. We meet Mon, Wed, Fri...lol.

[Signals.Cpl]

It's not the number of people killed that determines genocide.

Over 200,000 people were killed in the American Civil War. Would it have been preferable or constructive if countries around the world got involved and lined up behind their chosen side?

American civil war was based on different political beliefs as opposed to an ethnic group that are fighting and more than willing to slaughter each other by the hundreds of thousands, which only one side could do at the moment.

As I said, the conflict being a civil war does not exclude it from being a genocide, on the same note a genocide does not necessarily mean a civil war or even a conventional war. What we have in Syria is a civil war with a very likely outcome of a genocide, a minor intervention now, could help Syria avoid a genocide, whereas no intervention whatsoever now, would most certainly cost a lot of lives and will be that much harder to end in the future.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... What we have in Syria is a civil war with a very likely outcome of a genocide, a minor intervention now, could help Syria avoid a genocide, whereas no intervention whatsoever now, would most certainly cost a lot of lives and will be that much harder to end in the future.

OK...assuming you are correct, how do you propose to make anybody in the "west" care enough to die for their troubles?

Can't we at least wait until the Olympic Games of Peace are over?

[Guest Derek L]

Again, just because two ethnic groups are fighting does not mean that it is genocide. There must be a deliberate and systematic attempt at destroying that group. Generally this happens quickly and on a large scale.

This is a conflict, not a genocide. The sooner we stop calling every last conflict genocide, the sooner we'll get some perspective on our responsibilities internationally.

I never called the conflict a genocide, but confirmed the ethnic lines drawn between the two sides........

[Guest Derek L]

I don't think an involvement is necessary at this point but should it become a problem there might come a time where an intervention is appropriate and necessary but an intervention could come in the form of select strikes in order to remove the offending piece of equip or a WMD site.

Yes, Sunni, Shia and Kurds whats the point? It is in our(Canada) best interests to assist in preventing the instability in Syria to extend or even threaten neighbours like Jordan, Israel or Turkey. And its in the best interest of the US to keep the Syrian conflict in Syria and out of Iraq in order to make sure that Syria's problem do not become Iraq's problems and thus lead to a civil war there and undo almost a decade of hard and thousands of dead and wounded soldiers and civilians.

Has there been any signs of the conflict spreading outside of the Syrian borders?

[Guest Derek L]

If they are indeed using chemical weapons, this would warrant international involvement. As an armed conflict, they're required to follow the Geneva Convention. Any use of chemical agents on rebelling forces should automatically trigger international involvement.

What if the rebels obtain chemical weapons, then use them on Government forces? Should we then side with Assad?

[cybercoma]

What if the rebels obtain chemical weapons, then use them on Government forces? Should we then side with Assad?

The international community should intervene if either side is in clear violation of the Geneva Convention. Yes.

[Guest Derek L]

The international community should intervene if either side is in clear violation of the Geneva Convention. Yes.

WOW So I take it if any belligerent, in any conflict in world, violates the Geneva Convention, we in Canada should involve ourselves? Or is this stance just predicated on said belligerent using weapons of mass destruction? What if both belligerents violate the Geneva Convention? For instance, in Afghanistan today, the Taliban kill civilians all the while Government Forces torture prisoners…Both clear violations……Who do we side with?

Or look at Rwanda………The estimated death toll was over half million people, yet we didn’t intervene militarily………If one of the sides in the Syrian conflicts used mustard gas and killed and injured a few thousand people within a town, we should intervene?

[DogOnPorch]

Has there been any signs of the conflict spreading outside of the Syrian borders?

Turkey, I suppose. But, minimal.

[Topaz]

This is just like Libya, the West is supplying the weapons to the rebels through Turkey and when the west and NATO are ready they will take over from the rebels if the rebels can't get the job done.

[bush_cheney2004]

This is just like Libya, the West is supplying the weapons to the rebels through Turkey and when the west and NATO are ready they will take over from the rebels if the rebels can't get the job done.

Nope...not much oil to be had in Syria. And the Rooskies need a warm water port. Don't hold your breath waiting for NATO to bomb Syrian air power or tanks.

Edited July 19, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[Signals.Cpl]

Has there been any signs of the conflict spreading outside of the Syrian borders?

-Turkish Air Force plane shot down

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2163281/Turkish-fighter-jet-downed-Syria-Mediterranean-Sea-Turkey-promises-determined-response.html

-fighting near the Turkish border

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-syria-crisis-turkey-borderbre86i11j-20120719,0,2129252.story

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/19/us-syria-crisis-border-rebels-idUSBRE86I15320120719

-mass refugees out of Syria in to Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan which might lead to fighting between the different ethnic groups INSIDE the camps as well as putting serious pressure on those countries, for example Jordan which has around 140,000 Syrian refugees now has to support those people with at least minimal healthcare, food, shelter and water all the while they(Jordan) is experiencing a shortage of water for themselves.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/02/us-syria-refugees-idUSBRE85106020120602

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/0705/Syrian-refugees-flood-Jordan-straining-resources

http://news.yahoo.com/jordan-opens-refugee-camp-syrians-160617024.html

Edited July 19, 2012 by Signals.Cpl

[cybercoma]

WOW So I take it if any belligerent, in any conflict in world, violates the Geneva Convention, we in Canada should involve ourselves?

Excuse me, but where did I say Canada ought to get involved? I said the international community ought to act. As for Canada's individual involvement (and each other nation individually), it needs to be decided by our elected representatives whether or not this is something we should get involved in.

[Guest Derek L]

Excuse me, but where did I say Canada ought to get involved? I said the international community ought to act. As for Canada's individual involvement (and each other nation individually), it needs to be decided by our elected representatives whether or not this is something we should get involved in.

Ahh, so Canada doesn’t need to get involved if it’s not in our interests………I agree.

[Guest Derek L]

-Turkish Air Force plane shot down

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2163281/Turkish-fighter-jet-downed-Syria-Mediterranean-Sea-Turkey-promises-determined-response.html

-fighting near the Turkish border

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-syria-crisis-turkey-borderbre86i11j-20120719,0,2129252.story

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/19/us-syria-crisis-border-rebels-idUSBRE86I15320120719

-mass refugees out of Syria in to Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan which might lead to fighting between the different ethnic groups INSIDE the camps as well as putting serious pressure on those countries, for example Jordan which has around 140,000 Syrian refugees now has to support those people with at least minimal healthcare, food, shelter and water all the while they(Jordan) is experiencing a shortage of water for themselves.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/02/us-syria-refugees-idUSBRE85106020120602

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/0705/Syrian-refugees-flood-Jordan-straining-resources

http://news.yahoo.com/jordan-opens-refugee-camp-syrians-160617024.html

Fair enough, so how does that effect us?

[cybercoma]

Ahh, so Canada doesn’t need to get involved if it’s not in our interests………I agree.

Quick, someone send Satan an email and tell him to turn up the thermostat.

[Signals.Cpl]

Fair enough, so how does that effect us?

The first two deal with NATO, and I understand your dislike for our continuous membership in NATO but until such a time as we cease to be a member attacks on our allies do have a great effect.

Then there is the destabilizing the region, this affects us greatly,if we let the violence in Syria destabilize the region further there would be a drastic increase the price of oil, and thus threaten our economy as well as others.

[Guest Derek L]

Quick, someone send Satan an email and tell him to turn up the thermostat.

So you’d rather Canada send unequipped personal to Syria once they started lobbing around Mustard Gas?

[Signals.Cpl]

So you’d rather Canada send unequipped personal to Syria once they started lobbing around Mustard Gas?

There are other ways to deal with the situation in Syria than sending under equipped personnel.