Canadian Scientists Protest

[kraychik]

Here's a video from the "scientist protest". I would bet serious money that less than 10% of those participants have a real degree in science. Notice the anti-Harper signage, as well as the union-placards. This protest is about 100% partisan, and 0% honest. Naturally, the CBC carried water for this fake controversy with this sympathetic article. This entire protest is an attempt to portray cost-cutting from Harper towards the federal government as somehow being "anti-science". And guess what, socialist and communists in this forum are going right along with it.

Scientists rally on Parliament Hill to mourn 'death of evidence'

'It definitely seems to us these cuts are not just part of fighting the deficit.'

- Katie Gibbs (apparently a Ph.D student in an unnamed discipline at the University of Ottawa)

Wow Katie, thanks for speaking truth to power!

Here's another nugget of wisdom from an ecology (probably the easiest science degree out there) professor from the same leftist U of O.

"Scientists are generally not agitators, but this continuous set of decisions has got very many scientists hot under the collar".

Scott Findlay has apparently nominated himself as the spokesperson for "the scientific community".

[g_bambino]

I would bet serious money that less than 10% of those participants have a real degree in science. Notice the anti-Harper signage, as well as the union-placards. This protest is about 100% partisan, and 0% honest.

Zero percent? That's unlikely. It seems like it's an example of the usual: a legitimate point of discussion gets drowned out by all the ubiquitous, unfortunately louder and generally less rational protest urchins.

[ed.: c/e]

Edited July 17, 2012 by g_bambino

[kraychik]

Zero percent? That's unlikely. It seems like it's an example of the usual: a legitimate point of discussion gets drowned out by all the ubiquitous, unfortunately louder and generally less rational protest urchins.

[ed.: c/e]

How is a slogan such as "the death of evidence" a legitimate point of discussion? This whole protest has nothing to do with science, and everything to do with leftists who want the government to remain an employment agency to provide jobs of little to no value. Governing is about prioritisation, and the government cannot take on more and more responsibilities that it cannot afford to fulfil. Beyond that, many of these "responsibilities" are not only unaffordable, but counterproductive. In other words, many government interventions exacerbate the very problems they claim to address (for example, "the war on poverty").

There is also the matter of principle, of which a good example if the long-form census. We know why the left wants to use it, and on principle (as well as pragmatically) it's good that it was removed.

[g_bambino]

How is a slogan such as "the death of evidence" a legitimate point of discussion?

See the rest of your own post.

[Bonam]

nice! You've gone from denigrating the scientists engaged by initially labeling them as unworthy and unreal, to now belittling them as nothing more than students looking to get laid... while adding in a dose of politically correct sexual predilection - beauty!

Thanks! I try

clearly, as the Harper Conservative cuts to policy and research align with your political leanings, you now feign ignorance of Harper Conservative ideologically driven cuts... cuts that emphasize resource based development expansion at any cost including policies weakening/abolishing environmental protections and/or damaging Canada's international scientific reputation.

I most certainly do not support "resource based development expansion at any cost".

The funding of 'pure science', of environmental research, etc., has been supplanted in favour of Harper Conservatives emphasizing the funding of scientific research with direct industry applications; i.e., commercialization! You know... the target emphasis for your, "writing better proposals"!

Care to provide some numbers on Canadian funding of pure science over time? You know, not just a news story about some specific sub-field of science, but actual budget numbers for "pure science" as a whole? How badly has pure scientific research in say, physics, astronomy, chemistry, biology, etc, fared under the conservatives?

you know better! You may no longer live in Canada, but given your participation on this MLW board, in the very threads that have discussed Harper Conservative 'censorship' of government scientists, you most certainly know that government scientists do not have an ability to freely give interviews, write blogs, utilize social media... most particularly if they are critical of Harper Conservative government policy/funding cuts.

I know nothing of the kind. Government scientists are not allowed to communicate the details of their research to the media if they are dealing with sensitive classified information, I'm sure. But, in general, they have the same freedom of speech as anyone else. Certainly they can talk all they want about government policies.

ya, ya... you're a, as you stated, "worthy and real" scientist! What? Not looking to get laid either... with a, as you stated, like-minded member of the opposite sex (or same sex as the case may be)?

Looking to, sure, but not that successfully of late I must admit. That's the cost of being a nerdy scientist I suppose.

[waldo]

you know better! You may no longer live in Canada, but given your participation on this MLW board, in the very threads that have discussed Harper Conservative 'censorship' of government scientists, you most certainly know that government scientists do not have an ability to freely give interviews, write blogs, utilize social media... most particularly if they are critical of Harper Conservative government policy/funding cuts.

I know nothing of the kind. Government scientists are not allowed to communicate the details of their research to the media if they are dealing with sensitive classified information, I'm sure. But, in general, they have the same freedom of speech as anyone else. Certainly they can talk all they want about government policies.

just on broad general terms, are you asserting that terms of employment allow employees to openly criticize their employer/company/management/policies/etc?

apparently you have selective recall... we've had numerous threads speaking to the Harper Conservative "muzzling of federal government scientists". MLW search shows you posted multiple times in the 'Scientists Muzzled' thread.

[Bonam]

just on broad general terms, are you asserting that terms of employment allow employees to openly criticize their employer/company/management/policies/etc?

apparently you have selective recall... we've had numerous threads speaking to the Harper Conservative "muzzling of federal government scientists". MLW search shows you posted multiple times in the 'Scientists Muzzled' thread.

Yes, employees can criticize their employers. They have that right (freedom of speech). The employers also have the right not to retain employees that they don't want.

[TwoDucks]

If they're not economically viable in the private sector, why should the government become an employment agency for these "scientists"?

This is such a misinformed comment that I feel the need to respond. Are you honestly trying to say that government funded R&D is not worth doing? Honestly, I think it's a worthy endeavour for society to accrue knowledge independent of whether anyone's making money off it, and making profit should not be the be all, end all of society. That said, if I had a great idea for a product that I knew millions would buy, your post implies there'd be a problem with the government investing in it. Maybe they might make some money off it and be able to lower your taxes so you don't complain as much.

In other words, many government interventions exacerbate the very problems they claim to address (for example, "the war on poverty").

Oh... I can't resist. How about 'The War on Drugs'? Or the 'The War on Terror'? Or even 'The War on Crime'. Maybe they could all just be rolled up into 'The War on Anyone Who Disagrees with Fox News'.

Just for future reference as well, making more posts with the same arguments that have already been addressed doesn't increase their validity.

[bleeding heart]

clearly, as the Harper Conservative cuts to policy and research align with your political leanings, you now feign ignorance of Harper Conservative ideologically driven cuts... cuts that emphasize resource based development expansion at any cost including policies weakening/abolishing environmental protections and/or damaging Canada's international scientific reputation. The funding of 'pure science', of environmental research, etc., has been supplanted in favour of Harper Conservatives emphasizing the funding of scientific research with direct industry applications; i.e., commercialization! You know... the target emphasis for your, "writing better proposals"!

Thank you! Couldn't have said it better myself.

[bleeding heart]

The reason I find these so called scientists "protesting" particularly distasteful is because, being a researcher, I know what my time is worth. Every day, I make progress in research and development, come closer to developing a new product, test new R&D prototypes, learn new (to me) physics to apply to future projects, etc.

So now you're asserting that they're...wasting valuable time, which they could be applying to research?

So...you retract your comments elsewhere about your leisure activities, biking and whatnot?

You could be researching, bonam....instead of "distastefully" doing something else.

[bleeding heart]

This is so obviously a leftist-orchestrated fake controversy,

Did you get your conspiracy theorizing from Glenn Beck?

coordinated with the NDP and/or Liberal Party, with this nonsencial "death of evidence" slogan. Canadians will, unfortunately for socialists like bleeding heart, sleep through this artificial and non-existent controversy.

I know you don't think much of parasites like scientists, and agree that their job should be to agree with the Prime Minister.

Unfortunately for you, not everybody agrees. Presumably due to Marxist indoctrination.

Edited July 22, 2012 by bleeding heart

[nimiru]

Like the Pope years ago prevented Copernicus and Galileo from their work Harper seems bent on the same thing. All because it's not profitable, not to mention detrimental to profit. I have to wonder when he will wake up to the fact that not everything is about money and the economy. We have to look after this planet as it has limited resources and a burgeoning population. We are at a tipping point in time and now it is important to listen to these so called wastes of tax payers money ( scientists) and do what is right. Science has got us to where we are and now we want to disregard their opinion because it's not profitable is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. At least since the last thing Toews said. It's time to stop thinking only about your own personal needs and think about the bigger picture and what's good for everyone. If you can do that you're the better person for it.

[betsy]

All I got to say is that when you get scientists protesting in the streets, it's time to stare a little more unflinchingly at the Government.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/11/canada-scientists-strike-protests

Take a number. Get in line.

Everybody's in a whiny mode these days. Even doctors with their refugee healthcare whine!

Edited August 5, 2012 by betsy

[Keepitsimple]

Take a number. Get in line.

Everybody's in a whiny mode these days. Even doctors with their refugee healthcare whine!

And how about those refugee lawyers....the guys who drag out appeals endlesslessly on the taxpayors' dime. Now that Jason Kenney is tightening up the system and reducing abuse, these guys are getting hit in the wallet....so what do they do....why, try and smear Kenney of course.

You're right - a lot of whining. Follow the gravy train....and you'll find the whiners.

[betsy]

And how about those refugee lawyers....the guys who drag out appeals endlesslessly on the taxpayors' dime. Now that Jason Kenney is tightening up the system and reducing abuse, these guys are getting hit in the wallet....so what do they do....why, try and smear Kenney of course.

You're right - a lot of whining. Follow the gravy train....and you'll find the whiners.

Oh yeah, that too! It's hard to keep track.... :lol:

[bleeding heart]

Oh yeah, that too! It's hard to keep track.... :lol:

How about anti-abortion activists? Tea-bagg...er, partiers?

[Keepitsimple]

How about anti-abortion activists? Tea-bagg...er, partiers?

Quite immature....

[bleeding heart]

Quite immature....

Well, if you object to the "tea-baggers" phrase (a self-imposed label, by the way, until the howls of laughter caused them to abandon it and look hurt)....what of the answer itself, which directly answers your allegations?

You know, about conservative activists?

"Follow the gravy train" to discover the "whiners"....do you mean wealthy people who remain politically active out of financial self-interest, too? Lobbyists? Paid pundits in service of this or that industry?....

"Activists" coves a lot more ground than left-wing street protests, after all.

Edited August 7, 2012 by bleeding heart

[Keepitsimple]

Well, if you object to the "tea-baggers" phrase (a self-imposed label, by the way, until the howls of laughter caused them to abandon it and look hurt)....what of the answer itself, which directly answers your allegations?

You know, about conservative activists?

"Follow the gravy train" to discover the "whiners"....do you mean wealthy people who remain politically active out of financial self-interest, too? Lobbyists? Paid pundits in service of this or that industry?....

"Activists" coves a lot more ground than left-wing street protests, after all.

You mentioned Anti-Abortionaists.....who are not necessarily Conservatives or on the Right and certainly have no "Gravy Train" motives.....haven't heard too much from them lately anyway. Tea-baggers are a US phenomenon. My point was - if you hear a lot of whining from Refugee Lawyers and advocates - there's a good chance they are worried about their wallets. Anything else to add?

Edited August 7, 2012 by Keepitsimple

[bleeding heart]

You mentioned Anti-Abortionaists.....who are not necessarily Conservatives or on the Right and certainly have no "Gravy Train" motives.....haven't heard too much from them lately anyway. Tea-baggers are a US phenomenon. My point was - if you hear a lot of whining from Refugee Lawyers and advocates - there's a good chance they are worried about their wallets. Anything else to add?

Oh...since you ignore the parts of my post that are inconvenient to your "argument," such as it is, sure: You haven't mentioned the lobbyists, the industry pundits, the politically active (on behalf of their own tax rates) wealthy...all of whom are, by definition, political activists, though you seem strangely unaware of something any four-year-old could easily comprehend...in short, you're not interested in "following the gravy train" at all, except in the predictable partisan formulation.

[Keepitsimple]

Oh...since you ignore the parts of my post that are inconvenient to your "argument," such as it is, sure: You haven't mentioned the lobbyists, the industry pundits, the politically active (on behalf of their own tax rates) wealthy...all of whom are, by definition, political activists, though you seem strangely unaware of something any four-year-old could easily comprehend...in short, you're not interested in "following the gravy train" at all, except in the predictable partisan formulation.

I'm pretty sure a four year old understands that lobbyists come in all sizes, shapes and political stripes. As do Industry Pundits. As do Political activists. I was simply making the point that Refugee Lawyers as a whole are whining because they are getting hit in the wallet. They want the status quo - AKA, the Gravy Train. Although I will admit that at this time, I favour the Conservatives - somewhat due to having no other viable choices - these Refugee Lawyers would smear any political party who tried to tighten up the system.

[bleeding heart]

I'm pretty sure a four year old understands that lobbyists come in all sizes, shapes and political stripes. As do Industry Pundits. As do Political activists. I was simply making the point that Refugee Lawyers as a whole are whining because they are getting hit in the wallet. They want the status quo - AKA, the Gravy Train. Although I will admit that at this time, I favour the Conservatives - somewhat due to having no other viable choices - these Refugee Lawyers would smear any political party who tried to tighten up the system.

Oh, I'm sure that's true enough.

But this is the way it works when money is involved.

And it has nothing to do with your political opinions. The "greed is good" Faithful can scarcely fault anyone for adhering to this or that "gravy train."

Edited August 8, 2012 by bleeding heart

[MokJoUssy]

Больше десятка работных в красных облачениях, сгрудившись посреди зала и задрав головы, слушали давешнего архимандрита.

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[eyeball]

Well, if you object to the "tea-baggers" phrase (a self-imposed label, by the way, until the howls of laughter caused them to abandon it and look hurt)

Bag-lickers would have been a more appropriate label and they probably would have worn it proudly.

Edited September 3, 2012 by eyeball