Canada Does It Again

[bush_cheney2004]

You can't make this stuff up. Yet again, Canada's procurement of rotary winged aircraft is going to crash and burn in grand style:

"This is an example of how procurement can go badly wrong. This is the worst procurement in the history of Canada, including the $500-million cancellation costs that are attached to the Maritime helicopter program and then the costs of further maintenance to fly 50-year-old helicopters. They're going to go right out of aviation service and into the museum in Ottawa. And that's not a joke."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/07/10/ns-helicopter-deal-mackay.html

What is it about helicopters that vexes Canada so? Seriously....

[DogOnPorch]

lol...you have to love the comment section. The worst deal EVER was the F-35...wahhhhhhhhhhh!!! Plus, the occasional sane post about how the money hasn't been spent yet. But, yes....Canada seems to hate the helicopter. Goodness knows they're almost useless devices kept in the air by witchcraft. Plus, in a land as vast as Canada, who needs vertical flight ability when a dog sled will do?

[capricorn]

Coming soon! All RCAF pilots will now be properly outfitted.

http://s656.photobucket.com/albums/uu285/dixiepixie47/Disney%20Cartoons/?action=view&current=Mario-Helicopter-Hat-psd38019.png&sort=ascending

[bush_cheney2004]

[Wilber]

lol...you have to love the comment section. The worst deal EVER was the F-35...wahhhhhhhhhhh!!! Plus, the occasional sane post about how the money hasn't been spent yet. But, yes....Canada seems to hate the helicopter. Goodness knows they're almost useless devices kept in the air by witchcraft. Plus, in a land as vast as Canada, who needs vertical flight ability when a dog sled will do?

Witchcraft indeed. Even though I never went into helicopters, it was my favourite subject when I took aircraft maintenance at BCIT. I was in awe of the genius who figured out how to make a gyroscope fly. Our instructor used to say, helicopter maintenance consists of putting them back together faster than they shake themselves to pieces. Any guesses on how many times those Sea Kings have been put back together?

[bush_cheney2004]

Our instructor used to say, helicopter maintenance consists of putting them back together faster than they shake themselves to pieces.

I flew one as a student at Pensacola. The instructor said a helicopter is really just 10,000 parts vibrating in formation.

[Guest Derek L]

You can't make this stuff up. Yet again, Canada's procurement of rotary winged aircraft is going to crash and burn in grand style:

"This is an example of how procurement can go badly wrong. This is the worst procurement in the history of Canada, including the $500-million cancellation costs that are attached to the Maritime helicopter program and then the costs of further maintenance to fly 50-year-old helicopters. They're going to go right out of aviation service and into the museum in Ottawa. And that's not a joke."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/07/10/ns-helicopter-deal-mackay.html

What is it about helicopters that vexes Canada so? Seriously....

I wouldn’t say we did it again, we never solved the issue in the first place…………..Again, the dangers of politicians being politicians, deciding to become the sole launch customer for the Cyclone, to spite the EH101/AW101 being the “winner” the second time for political optical effect, well it having a proven combat record in the Gulf with the Royal Navy & Royal Air Force prior to the selection……….In reality, we should be discussing the Petrel’s upcoming mid-life upgrade………Such is life.

[DogOnPorch]

Witchcraft indeed. Even though I never went into helicopters, it was my favourite subject when I took aircraft maintenance at BCIT. I was in awe of the genius who figured out how to make a gyroscope fly. Our instructor used to say, helicopter maintenance consists of putting them back together faster than they shake themselves to pieces. Any guesses on how many times those Sea Kings have been put back together?

I'll bet there's a little bit of every Sea King in every other Sea King.

Here's a similar old Army grunt: the Choctaw...perhaps in Canada's future??? Yuck, yuck, yuck...

Or perhaps those cool Hind conversions from Red Dawn......

Edited July 11, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[bush_cheney2004]

Here's a similar old Army grunt: the Choctaw...perhaps in Canada's future??? Yuck, yuck, yuck...

Wow.....sounds like a Harley panhead.

[Guest Derek L]

Hmmm tail gearbox or maybe the aft propulsion shaft………The initial hard bump might have knocked something loose……..

[Guest Derek L]

Witchcraft indeed. Even though I never went into helicopters, it was my favourite subject when I took aircraft maintenance at BCIT. I was in awe of the genius who figured out how to make a gyroscope fly. Our instructor used to say, helicopter maintenance consists of putting them back together faster than they shake themselves to pieces. Any guesses on how many times those Sea Kings have been put back together?

Each one remaining, down to the airframe numerous times………..You know the story of Grand-pa’s axe?

[DogOnPorch]

Wow.....sounds like a Harley panhead.

No turbos there...just pistons. Auto-rotated like an Olympic high diver.

[bush_cheney2004]

I wouldn’t say we did it again, we never solved the issue in the first place…………..

OK...but seriously....helicopters are really really really useful and not nearly as complicated or as expensive as F-35 strike fighters. If the LAPD can buy them to chase perps, or park boards can buy them to spray for skeeters, what's the problem?

[DogOnPorch]

OK...but seriously....helicopters are really really really useful and not nearly as complicated or as expensive as F-35 strike fighters. If the LAPD can buy them to chase perps, or park boards can buy them to spray for skeeters, what's the problem?

Most MPs call them things 'Whurly Tops' and again, believe in witchcraft.

[Guest Derek L]

OK...but seriously....helicopters are really really really useful and not nearly as complicated or as expensive as F-35 strike fighters. If the LAPD can buy them to chase perps, or park boards can buy them to spray for skeeters, what's the problem?

It comes down to what you put in them and how much regional offsets they obtain……………The PC Tories were just as bad……..Kiowa’s, Chinooks and Twins replaced with 412s made in Quebec.

We can even f**k-up trucks & jeeps……Takes a special talent

[DogOnPorch]

In Soviet Russia Czech Hips you!

Mi-8 Hip Crashes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i_wphymTkc

[bush_cheney2004]

It comes down to what you put in them and how much regional offsets they obtain……………The PC Tories were just as bad……..Kiowa’s, Chinooks and Twins replaced with 412s made in Quebec.

Well, from what I can glean from the interwebs, Canada requires several different ministries to get their two cents worth on each procurement, so things get mucked up pretty fast. The "Ministry of Industry" must be worried about offsets and such.

We can even f**k-up trucks & jeeps……Takes a special talent

...but the CC-177's were procured without much fanfare. Any bitchin' about that? Maybe the DART fiasco closed the deal.

Edited July 11, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[DogOnPorch]

...but the CC-177's were procured without much fanfare. Any bitchin' about that? Maybe the DART fiasco closed the deal.

When the rumors of 'Chinese Chips' possibly getting into the C-17 came about, I was listening to CBC Radio to some MP suggest that we take them apart to make sure.

[bush_cheney2004]

Here is the solution....build them in Quebec:

[DogOnPorch]

Some considerations for the review board...

[Guest Derek L]

Well, from what I can glean from the interwebs, Canada requires several different ministries to get their two cents worth on each procurement, so things get mucked up pretty fast. The "Ministry of Industry" must be worried about offsets and such.

This is true, but in the case of the Cyclone it was chosen on the basis that it was not the EH-101, well the other contender, the NH-90 was always a long shot due to our then ongoing dispute with the continental European aerospace industries refusal to work with Pratt & Whitney Canada……..

In the end, the problem with the Cyclone since the start was that it was underpowered for it’s weight, using the same power plant as the Black/Sea Hawk in a larger airframe……….There’s nothing wrong specifically with the GE T700 turboshaft family, it’s just the Cyclone, like the EH-101, should have three of them instead of two.

[bush_cheney2004]

....In the end, the problem with the Cyclone since the start was that it was underpowered for it’s weight, using the same power plant as the Black/Sea Hawk in a larger airframe……….There’s nothing wrong specifically with the GE T700 turboshaft family, it’s just the Cyclone, like the EH-101, should have three of them instead of two.

let me guess...Canada had "special requirements" that couldn't be met by any current models or licensing for domestic manufacture. And of course one type has to do it all.

[bush_cheney2004]

If Mexico can do it.....

[DogOnPorch]

Gas hog...lol.

[Guest Derek L]

let me guess...Canada had "special requirements" that couldn't be met by any current models or licensing for domestic manufacture. And of course one type has to do it all.

In some respects, yes we do have special requirements (shared with several other NATO navies) in respect to a maritime helicopter, in that we, unlike the USN LAMPS system and operational doctrine, don’t use our helicopters as an extension of the ships combat systems, but as an independent asset to work in conjunction with the ship/task group……..Hence the rejection of the Seahawk Bravo as a contender in the 80s.

Now another strike against the Bravo was that it didn’t have a dipping sonar, now Sikorsky in conjunction with the USN did start developing the Seahawk F in the mid-80s (with dipping sonar) to replace the USN Sea Kings (with dipping sonar) used for inside ASW for Carrier Battlegroups, but the “F” still lacked the range/endurance of the Sea King, coupled with the much smaller cabin size (Can’t stand up straight in it) which increase crew fatigue……………..Not a problem for the USN operating dozens of them within several km from a carrier, backed up with escorts, their Bravo Seahawks, subs and Vikings etc…….But is as such for Canada.

Now the other requirement, not shared with the USN (and others), is that we also use our Sea Kings for primary VERTREP for our fleet, unlike you guys that had the Sea Knight for that specific role…….

Now those that shared the same similar requirements as us where the Royal Navy and Italians (to replace their Sea Kings), hence the development of the EH-101 as a direct Sea King replacement, and in turn, our initial selection of the EH-101 decades ago………..The rest as they say is history.