Your Toronto Blue Jays

[Boges]

BTW Kratz is clearly a great Pinch Runner.

[overthere]

Currently...Toronto, Baltimore, San Diego, Oakland, Pirates (waffled back and forth) Washington....

Lots of them.

Not for the whole season, and all of those other teams catchers are either occasional position players elsewhere (usually first base) and or regularly playing as designated hitters. It is very unusual to carry three catchers that only catch.

[overthere]

You still haven't given me a name of a pitcher that's in play. If someone asks for Lind, sure make the trade. I just don't see it happening. Who's the pitcher on Minnesota that is worth one of the Jay's hitters?

The only names I've heard as pitchers that are on the Jays radar, from the experts I've listened to, are Jeff Samardja from the Cubs, Cliff Lee from the Phillies, David Price from the Rays and James Shields from the Royals.

I don't have a lot of faith in Santos, but perhaps if he's healthy he'll be worth a spot. Right now Redman and Jenkins are mop up guys (Only put them in the game when the result isn't in question) And if Delabar keeps it up, he may need to get sent down because he's become very unreliable. It's actually shocking he was an All-Star last year. Rasmus needs to prove he's worth being traded, assuming Gose is the answer. Gose sort of has to be because both Melky and Rasmus are Free Agents and will demand top dollar. Right now Melky is the more valuable option.

With few exceptions, every pitcher is in play. Did the 'experts' know that the Marlins would trade virtually their entire starting roster- and did? The true exp[erts are the GMs, and they rarelt let anybody know what they intend.

The reality is that teams that have playoff aspirations have to fill their roster weaknesses, and the Jays are weak at pitching. There are other teams that have a need for hitting. Lind can fit that need, but only as long as he continues to hit. He is hitting now well above his career average, so time to get something for the guy the entire league would not take on waivers not long ago.

The batting order had benefited from having Lind or Francisco as a lefty bat between Bautista and Encarnacion. Fransisco has looked very ordinary lately at both the plate and at third base, and if Lind is traded for pitching that void needs to be filled. Rasmus is a lefty, but a streaky hitter. Perhaps Gibbons would do that, but I'd rather he moved the dependable Cabrera up into the four spot.

There could be a lot of shuffling ahead.....the loss of Izturis has thrown a wrench into everyhting , Tolleson does not look like a long or short term answer.

possible changes..... starting batting order: Gose RF, Reyes SS, Bautista 3B, Cabrera LF, Encarnacion 1B, Lawrie 2B, Francisco DH, Rasmus CF, Whomever is Catching C.

You could cycle Lawrie into leadoff if Gose cannot get on base regularly.

I agree about Rasmus, again our best bet is to hope he hits hard when he comes back because otherwise he isn't worth much in a trade and isn't worth signing for big money- hurt too much and too streaky at the plate to keep. Package him with Lind..... I'd keep Cabrera.

[Boges]

Has Bautista ever played 3rd before? Gose is a fantastic Centre fielder.

[overthere]

Bautista has started some games at third base for every MLB he has been on: Baltmore, Tampa, Kansas and Toronto. He has started about 80 games at third base for the Jays, most recently last year.

Gose is a fine fielder, needs to work hard on hitting and baserunning smarts. Most of all he must learn how to get on base more often.

[Boges]

They've lost 4 of 5. PANIC BUTTON!!!!!!

I think going on the road might be the best thing for them TBH. Also they get to play crappy AL East competition.

[Boges]

That's why they keep Eric Kratz around. For some reason he makes J Happ look like Cy Young. Navarro can play a decent DH when the either of the other two guys are playing.

Even though Thole is hitting around .300 he's the one guy that seems expendable. Especially if Dicky is on the DL for any period of time. Dicky actually pitched aight on Saturday. The big problem with this team is that the run support doesn't seem to be there all the time. But they're turning it around.

Pillar got sent down so expect Rasmus back this week.

[Boges]

Delabar gets sent down for Kawasaki! WOW! Who gets sent down when Rasmus is ready? Injuries to Cecil and Lind might make that moot.

This series in New York is make or break for the Jays. I can forgive losing tonight against Tanaka but the Yanks are throwing Tomato cans at them the next two starts and arguably the Jays two best starters Buerhle and Hutch are scheduled.

[overthere]

Pretty bad road trip.

OK, it was worse than that....they weren't even close for most of the games.

The true Jays are not the team that won so many recently, and they aren't the team that stunk the joint out more recently- they are somewhere in between... and unless they get some pitching their tenure in first place will be long gone soon.

[Boges]

Except for the first 2 games in Cincy, the pitching hasn't been the problem. It's the fact that sans that comeback on Friday, they forgot how to hit.

If this team hits even remotely like they did in May they'd have been competitive in a lot of the games they lost.

[overthere]

No, their pitching is demonstrably shitty.

They have exactly one pitcher in the top fity in MLB in ERA(Buehrle). One.

Their team ERA is 23rd in the league. First place team, 23rd best in ERA!!!

Their entire staff has one complete game.

The reason their pitching looked adequate before is because they were getting massive run support. Now they are not, and they are exposed. If the pitchers get average run support, the Jays lose.

They are also getting badly outcoached on many nights. Gibbons obviously leaves veteran guys like Dickey and Buehrle in the game too long. He has also fallen prey to Cito Gaston Syndrome, whereby you sit on the bench watching with your thumb up your ass, waiting and praying for that game winning three run homer.. The Jays have some guys who can run the bases. But we rarely see Gibbons trying to win close games with some strategy. We rarely hit and run, steal, bunt, sacrifice with the heart of the order, squeeze or dfo any of the things that successful teams do when they must.

Same old same old.

[Boges]

I said this in that stupid Camo thread.

If the Jays can stay in first by the All-Star Break, meaning they can weather a 10-game road trip in Oakland, LA and Tampa. I will be comfortable in calling them a playoff team.

I don't get this team though. Can't beat win a series against the Reds or ChiSox but can handle the NL's best team.

Watch them sweep the A's again just to confuse everyone.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Boges

[Mighty AC]

It will be nice just to see a meaningful game in September for a change.

[overthere]

Can anybody on the Jays bunt? Advance the runners, win the game....

Like, anybody?

[Boges]

Can anybody on the Jays bunt? Advance the runners, win the game....

Like, anybody?

Melky can.

The fact that Gose can't is troublesome. YOU HAD ONE JOB!!!!

I saw him strikeout trying to bunt a few weeks back.

[overthere]

On winning teams you see guys with skill sets of Bautista, Encarnacion, lind etc doing this to win a game.

http://m.mlb.com/video/?content_id=21459799

But not on the Jays, it appears nobody has either the basic set of skills ,earned at age 12, or any managerial motivation to try.

The Jays are in love with the 3 run homer, have been since the early 90s.

[Boges]

On winning teams you see guys with skill sets of Bautista, Encarnacion, lind etc doing this to win a game.

http://m.mlb.com/video/?content_id=21459799

But not on the Jays, it appears nobody has either the basic set of skills ,earned at age 12, or any managerial motivation to try.

The Jays are in love with the 3 run homer, have been since the early 90s.

That wasn't a proper bunt, he was able to take advantage of a defensive shift, but that's not what a bunt should be, the 3rd baseman is in position and that's a horrible bunt.

The Italian guy who's name I refuse to remember's bunt didn't go anywhere and Gose's went to far but it's all how they're being defended.

Melky's last week against the Yankees last week was perfect and it ended up winning the game for the. Also the play Bautista got hurt, a few weeks ago, on was an amazing bunt single.

The guys coming up from Buffalo are the ones pooping the bed more often than not. Lawrie can't come back soon enough. Also I'm beginning to think the team needs a 2nd baseman more than a huge pitcher. David Price might not even be on the market anymore with Tampa rebounding.

We'll keep having this debate but Stroman, Hutch, and Happ are all coming off solid starts. At this point who do you take out of the rotation? Dickey?

Edited July 3, 2014 by Boges

[guyser]

Since the rest of the AL East cant hit.....

Still in first place.

[Boges]

Since the rest of the AL East cant hit.....

Still in first place.

Newsflash: Baltimore can hit.

Chris Davis and Nelson Cruz are about as potent a tandem as Bautista and EE.

They were losing 4-0 to Texas last night and came back to win.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Boges

[guyser]

Ugh, 2nd place and falling fast it would appear.

Middle relief and hitting arent getting it done.

[Boges]

Ugh, 2nd place and falling fast it would appear.

Middle relief and hitting arent getting it done.

Yeah they're bleeped right now. EE is out for at least 2 weeks. Pitching hasn't been horrible during this slide but the team just can't seem to hit.

[Big Guy]

Bang! Ouch! oooF!! It can be painful falling off the Blue Jay bandwagon. The sides of the road to the playoffs is beginning to get littered with us.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Big Guy

[guyser]

I wouldnt go that far. They should be able to turn this around and at least be there for wild card spot.

Starting pitching is not horrible, middle relief is.

and even mmoreso when not hitting.

[overthere]

Pitching remains substandard and inadequate.

Still in 23rd place for team ERA. Team ERA is a solid stat for evaluating the effectiveness of the staff overall. And overall, our staff sucks. We rarely win close games, another indicator. Baserunning errors and generally dumb plays abound. Alex A knows he needs to replace Gibbons now, but he also knows that he himself is on very thin ice. GMs usually get one free replacement of the manager/head coach, then they are done like dinner. AA is on the precipice now, having been given a fat budget and nearly free hand to build this team and he has come up with a team that is apparently going to end up where they always do: flirting with .500. That would be acceptable if this was the old low budget Jays, but not with this lineup. His current strategy of bringing up 'depth' players who aren't good enough, and recycling journeymen off waivers won't work. The team needs pitching. It is or was available, note the very good, balanced Oakland A's just acquired an excellent starter from the Cubs.

Also not good: team BAA(Batting Average Against) that is 19th overall. That means other teams feast on our pitching routinely.

This is mostly a management failure.

[guyser]

starting pitching is fine, middle relief....ugh