Canada suffers from Dutch Disease

[MiddleClassCentrist]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-government-funded-study-arguing-canada-suffers-from-dutch-disease/article2437617/

The Harper government has funded research that argues Canada’s economy suffers from so-called Dutch Disease, an economic theory the prime minister and other senior officials ridiculed when raised recently by NDP Leader Tom Mulcair.

Silly Conservatives...

Edited May 19, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Rick]

Wait.. this Canada you speak of... does that include those separatists from that fire-walled state of Alberta?

[Argus]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-government-funded-study-arguing-canada-suffers-from-dutch-disease/article2437617/

Silly Conservatives...

Hmm, according to the cites the currency appreciation accounts for somewhere between a quarter and one third of the loss of manufacturing jobs. So what accounts for the bulk of them? Could it be ruinous economic policies the Liberal governments of Ontario and Quebec have in place?

[punked]

Hmm, according to the cites the currency appreciation accounts for somewhere between a quarter and one third of the loss of manufacturing jobs. So what accounts for the bulk of them? Could it be ruinous economic policies the Liberal governments of Ontario and Quebec have in place?

World markets and freed trade would pay a big roll in the rest of the losses I should think. Governments play very little role in creating and losing jobs. Although they can lesson the effects of Dutch Disease and stop the out flow by taking steps to mitigated it. There is very little they can do to compete against cheep world labor and things like that. They can depress wages by bringing in cheep labor which is what this government has chosen to do but it wont help if we bleed off the whole sector because a rising dollar and having blinders on our eyes about the situation.

Time to grow up and put politics aside and fix one of the only problems in manufacturing that a government can. Regulate the resource industry, slow their growth a little through taxes, reinvest those taxes making our work force more productive, keep all our jobs instead of trading a job in Alberta for a job in Ontario because Canada loses when that happens.

[Moonlight Graham]

Hmm, according to the cites the currency appreciation accounts for somewhere between a quarter and one third of the loss of manufacturing jobs. So what accounts for the bulk of them? Could it be ruinous economic policies the Liberal governments of Ontario and Quebec have in place?

I would make an educated guess that it's the meltdown of the North American auto companies and super-cheap manufacturing in China and elsewhere. Blame globalization and greedy auto unions.

Longterm, North Americans are better off for the loss of manufacturing jobs in North America, despite the real short-term pain of the unemployed. It means better and/or cheaper North American autos and cheaper goods overall.

[punked]

I would make an educated guess that it's the meltdown of the North American auto companies and super-cheap manufacturing in China and elsewhere. Blame globalization and greedy auto unions.

Longterm, North Americans are better off for the loss of manufacturing jobs in North America, despite the real short-term pain of the unemployed. It means better and/or cheaper North American autos and cheaper goods overall.

Your claim we are better off with out manufacturing so our economy is less diverse makes absolutely no sense. The more sectors you have employing people the less vulnerable your country is to a down turn in one sector. If oil went to 15 dollars a barrel tomorrow somewhere like Alberta would be bankrupt because that is Energy and energy off shots are a huge part of their economy while but as long as we have other sectors to pick up the slack our country wont be in the toilet.

[Topaz]

I would make an educated guess that it's the meltdown of the North American auto companies and super-cheap manufacturing in China and elsewhere. Blame globalization and greedy auto unions.

Longterm, North Americans are better off for the loss of manufacturing jobs in North America, despite the real short-term pain of the unemployed. It means better and/or cheaper North American autos and cheaper goods overall.

That's exactly what we are getting imported, cheap goods! Nothing lasts anymore, the quality is done. Who helped in the globalization? The world leaders, by making changes in their countries to labour laws, free trade. The only provinces making any head way are the ones with natural resources and after they are gone, what then?

[Rick]

I would make an educated guess that it's the meltdown of the North American auto companies and super-cheap manufacturing in China and elsewhere. Blame globalization and greedy auto unions.

Longterm, North Americans are better off for the loss of manufacturing jobs in North America, despite the real short-term pain of the unemployed. It means better and/or cheaper North American autos and cheaper goods overall.

Of which none will be affordable for many with the continued loss of good paying manufacturing jobs..

Service based economies only survive when there's good paying manufacturing jobs to help support the need for those service jobs. People only use services when they can afford them.

Not to mention the decline in good paying manufacturing jobs also means less tax revenue...

I'm not sure how you could see this as being good for normal everyday working Canadians...

[punked]

That's exactly what we are getting imported, cheap goods! Nothing lasts anymore, the quality is done. Who helped in the globalization? The world leaders, by making changes in their countries to labour laws, free trade. The only provinces making any head way are the ones with natural resources and after they are gone, what then?

Then our nation is bankrupt because we never planned ahead. It will happen sooner then you think.

[WWWTT]

I would make an educated guess that it's the meltdown of the North American auto companies and super-cheap manufacturing in China and elsewhere. Blame globalization and greedy auto unions.

Longterm, North Americans are better off for the loss of manufacturing jobs in North America, despite the real short-term pain of the unemployed. It means better and/or cheaper North American autos and cheaper goods overall.

What a complete load of biased @#%$! I ever heard!!!

Oh its Chinas fault!And its the greedy unions fault!

In 2008/2009 the big three auto makers had their hides hauled into Washington with subpoenas and their asses were reemed by congress for spending profits like a bunch of yahoos.Scores of countless CEOs,presidents,vice-presidents,etc(upper management) have been raping profits from hard working costumers/clients for freekin decades and now somehow its Chinas fault???Or greedy unions???

You know what,some people actually believe what you are saying/writing!Especially the conservative government!

That's why these guys have got to go ASAP!

If we did not have large corporations raping the middle class and then begging the government for a handout/corporate tax cut we would be way better off!

Time for real change!

Vote NDP!

WWWTT

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Hmm, according to the cites the currency appreciation accounts for somewhere between a quarter and one third of the loss of manufacturing jobs. So what accounts for the bulk of them? Could it be ruinous economic policies the Liberal governments of Ontario and Quebec have in place?

Oh I see. The "It's not 100% of the cause" so it doesn't matter argument.

[jacee]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-government-funded-study-arguing-canada-suffers-from-dutch-disease/article2437617/

Silly Conservatives...

Well I guess that research program just got cancelled!

'Globalization' is just an excuse for megacorporations to buy up all the competition and shut them down.

[fellowtraveller]

the government should do something.

[Moonlight Graham]

Your claim we are better off with out manufacturing so our economy is less diverse makes absolutely no sense. The more sectors you have employing people the less vulnerable your country is to a down turn in one sector. If oil went to 15 dollars a barrel tomorrow somewhere like Alberta would be bankrupt because that is Energy and energy off shots are a huge part of their economy while but as long as we have other sectors to pick up the slack our country wont be in the toilet.

I never said anything about us going to be better off because we are less diverse. Diversity in a country's economy is very important, i agree. In the long run, we can make up those manufacturing jobs in other areas. It's much better for us economically if we have more people helping to run businesses that design these products (using their intellectual capacity), and let developing countries like China manufacture the products we design for cheap.

[Moonlight Graham]

That's exactly what we are getting imported, cheap goods! Nothing lasts anymore, the quality is done.

That's not the fault of the Chinese etc., they make what we tell them to. It's the fault of rich countries who wish to make products with inferior materials in order to make prices cheaper and make more profit. The quicker products break, also the quicker the consumer has to buy a new one, increasing profits even more.

[Rick]

I never said anything about us going to be better off because we are less diverse. Diversity in a country's economy is very important, i agree. In the long run, we can make up those manufacturing jobs in other areas. It's much better for us economically if we have more people helping to run businesses that design these products (using their intellectual capacity), and let developing countries like China manufacture the products we design for cheap.

No it's not, there's simply not enough jobs involved in design as opposed to manufacturing.

[Moonlight Graham]

I'm not sure how you could see this as being good for normal everyday working Canadians...

I didn't say it is good right now, i said it will be in the long-term. There is going to be a period of tough transition when the old manufacturing jobs are lost (which were completely unsustainable the way they were, given the ridiculous union demands) and new job opportunities that must be created. Jobs that can utilize the value of the human intellect rather than the less valuable "elbow-grease". If we want to grow our economy and raise our standard of living, let the Chinese/Indians etc. be our worker bees, while we design & own the hive.

[Rick]

I didn't say it is good right now, i said it will be in the long-term. There is going to be a period of tough transition when the old manufacturing jobs are lost (which were completely unsustainable the way they were, given the ridiculous union demands) and new job opportunities that must be created. Jobs that can utilize the value of the human intellect rather than the less valuable "elbow-grease". If we want to grow our economy and raise our standard of living, let the Chinese/Indians etc. be our worker bees, while we design & own the hive.

Pure right wing corporate bullshit. Just how do you expect a blue collar'd worker to survive in your new 'utopia' where jobs are scarce...

You do realise that there will be more unemployed or under employed in that corporate 'nirvana' you're dreaming of creating.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Pure right wing corporate bullshit. Just how do you expect a blue collar'd worker to survive in your new 'utopia' where jobs are scarce...

You do realise that there will be more unemployed or under employed in that corporate 'nirvana' you're dreaming of creating.

There is only downward pressure on wages. It might not be as clear until you factor inflation in. We are headed for this utopia, I guess we should just start getting ready for it.

The corporate party of Canada now wants people to be able to fake a hiring process to get to the "HIRE IMMIGRANT WORKERS for 15% OFF!" coupon.

Hey... I have an idea... Let's kick the economic powerhouse (ONtario still is) in the shins with slanderous comments from our finance minister... and then claim that the new guy is trying to divide the country for wanting to properly enforce regulation and factor the real cost (including environmental clean up) into the business.

Edited May 20, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[WWWTT]

I didn't say it is good right now, i said it will be in the long-term. There is going to be a period of tough transition when the old manufacturing jobs are lost (which were completely unsustainable the way they were, given the ridiculous union demands) and new job opportunities that must be created. Jobs that can utilize the value of the human intellect rather than the less valuable "elbow-grease". If we want to grow our economy and raise our standard of living, let the Chinese/Indians etc. be our worker bees, while we design & own the hive.

Ya here's another prediction that is more realistic!

In another few years the conservatives are going to find themselves in opposition and the NDP are going to roll back the ridiculously unsustainable tax cuts and corporate welfare and even the playing field across the country for smaller mid sized labor friendly companies to compete.After these new more realistic much needed measures are in effect and the economy finally starts surging ahead to levels never seen before somehow people who make unrealistic predictions as yourself will all come out in force claiming that this was what they meant in the first place!

The middle class is the main engine driving the economy.Always has been and always will be!No ifs ands buts or maybes!

I don't know where it was,when it was or who told you differently.But somehow many people for some reason are under some kind of illusion that corporations create the wealth and prosperity.This is an outright lie!In fact it is very dangerous to think this way and I personally would never give anyone who thought this way a freekin shred of any credibility!

WWWTT

[Moonlight Graham]

Pure right wing corporate bullshit.

What's "corporate" about it? Who do you think employed those now unemployed former manufacturing workers? Corporations did.

I don't even know what's "right wing" about what I said either, frankly. It's reality.

You do realise that there will be more unemployed or under employed in that corporate 'nirvana' you're dreaming of creating.

I'm not dreaming of creating anything. It's been happening increasingly over the last 30+ years. It's here, get used to it.

Let me ask you, how much do you think you would pay for most of the things you buy if they were all manufactured in Canada/US, or any other western industrialized country? Workers here make around $10/hour at least, plus any benefits (and auto workers make MUCH more). The average Chinese manufacturing worker makes about 50 cents per hour. That difference is included in the price of what we pay for manufactured goods.

As for the unemployed, well, maybe some of them can start their own businesses, while creating some jobs for others. My uncle did it with a grade 10 education & was very successful.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[Keepitsimple]

There's a point missing in all this.......not only were a minority of the manufacturing jobs lost because of currency appreciation.......but the appreciation was not all due to the oil sands and our resource sector. A lot of the appreciation was in fact due to the weakening of the US dollar against other currencies. Mulcair is proving to be quite stubborn....and looking quite foolish.

[TheNewTeddy]

I agree that ONLY a third of these jobs were lost to Dutch Disease so we should ignore it. I also disagree that this supposed "world wide recession" is at fault, clearly it's all the Liberals fault that these jobs are gone. Frankly, all of this smells of some kind of Liberal-NDP conspiracy.

[Rick]

Mulcair is proving to be quite stubborn....and looking quite foolish.

What by having the very experts who Harper hired to study this agree with Mulcair?

The only ones looking foolish in this are Harper and his minions.

[Rick]

What's "corporate" about it? Who do you think employed those now unemployed former manufacturing workers? Corporations did.

I don't even know what's "right wing" about what I said either, frankly. It's reality.

I'm not dreaming of creating anything. It's been happening increasingly over the last 30+ years. It's here, get used to it.

Let me ask you, how much do you think you would pay for most of the things you buy if they were all manufactured in Canada/US, or any other western industrialized country? Workers here make around $10/hour at least, plus any benefits (and auto workers make MUCH more). The average Chinese manufacturing worker makes about 50 cents per hour. That difference is included in the price of what we pay for manufactured goods.

As for the unemployed, well, maybe some of them can start their own businesses, while creating some jobs for others. My uncle did it with a grade 10 education & was very successful.

You forget to mention that those cheap goods also cost Canadians good paying jobs which leads to higher unemployment... and as a result, drives down wages in other sectors.

You know what else is here and is a reality because of failed economic policies such as the corporate utopia you're preaching.... Maple Spring. Get used to it too. Civil wars have been fought over this before...history will repeat itself.