What does 'Support the Troops' really mean?

capricorn · May 12, 2012

Nothing you posted even faintly approaches "hate mail." Ye gods.

That's true. The letters were essentially anti-war messages.

bleeding heart · May 19, 2012

At any rate, a few genuine well-wishers aside, "Support the troops" is more often than not a transparent code for "support this international political policy."

Army Guy · May 22, 2012

Sounds okay but I'd still like to see a super-majority and I fail to see why soldiers would settle for anything less.

The Average Canadian soldier just wants to serve his nation, some see it as their way of giving back, some see it as a job, some see it as a way to see the world....or to have a job with some job security.

You ask why soldiers don't settle on anything less. What difference does this make to a soldier, "it does not make any difference, and why should it" it does not change the job that we do or how we do it....do you think your any better at picking what conflict you send us to? Do you think the Average Canadian knows or has acess to more info than the government...info is the critical piece, to make informed decisions....Do you think this info should be made public ?

DO you think Canadians would really put any more thought into going to war or on operations than they do about any other militay matters ? And i don't want to take anything away from those few that do, Smallc, dereck,Sigs CPL,BC2004,DOP, and a few others that keep current because the topic because it interests them, but for the majority of Canadians it does not, infact it is a topic the have an opinion on but don't have the knowlegde base to make any decision on...And well, since it is a topic that i my life may depend on , no i don't want the Avg joe deciding anything in regards to the military.

Perfect example of this is the F-35 project...in the end unless the cons can hold onto power until late 2020 there will be no f-35, why because the majority of Canadians don't want it...they know more than the Airforce, and want something different and won't stop until that happens. And it will as history shows us...it has become a political tool which will be used, regardless of the military application.

In my opinion they have not earned that right, and i use the current state of our military as an example, sure while it is reflected on our government the people have the power to change it if only they had the will. while it may piss some off they way we treat our vets or soldiers we don't have the will to do anything about it...SO we let it ride....

Next comment how do you plan to get people out to vote ? shit we can't even make it to the polling stations on a federal election.....

Next i don't want that responsiablity in the avg joes hands, the government has done a poor job in handling military affairs , it would only get worse if all Canadians shared in that process.

So i ask you what will a referendum accomplish, will it give you peace of mind, what does the average voter get out of this....

Because in the end our military will have the same job, to close with and destroy our enemies...a job that canadians are not comfortable with, and yet still need...

I also want to remind you that when the Afghan conflict first started we did have a Majority in favour....thousands showed up in trneton to see us off...cheering and yelling thinking we were going over there and the taliban were just going to give up in the face of our mighty Army, a product of Canada and it's military will....we went , we killed, we captured, and short time later Canadians changed their mind....and for 10 long years forgot about it's soldiers....how does voting change any of that...

Army Guy · May 22, 2012

Gosthacked:

I agree with your points Guyser. As in another thread, I talked about my pal who did a couple tours in Bosnia as well as a couple in Afghanistan. Something happened on his last tour in Afghanistan, it changed him forever. I've tried to stay in contact with him... i'll have to wait for him to come around.

Gosthacked you need to seek him out, right now he needs someone to talk to, trust me he'll thank you later...

Army Guy · May 22, 2012

Bleeding heart:

At any rate, a few genuine well-wishers aside, "Support the troops" is more often than not a transparent code for "support this international political policy."

One could also say that about the those that use the quote so they are not accused of supporting the troops...it's used by all sides to deliver political messages that don't do anything for the troops except no ones likes to be singled out....

eyeball · May 22, 2012

The Average Canadian soldier just wants to serve his nation, some see it as their way of giving back, some see it as a job, some see it as a way to see the world....or to have a job with some job security.

So the average soldier probably couldn't care less who decides where and when they go to war and the call to Support The Troops is really a call to Support the mission/operation/whatever. As far as troops go, perhaps you guy's would be better off forming a union and securing better benefits and equipment that makes your job safer that way.

You ask why soldiers don't settle on anything less. What difference does this make to a soldier, "it does not make any difference, and why should it" it does not change the job that we do or how we do it....do you think your any better at picking what conflict you send us to?

Not on my own but collectively in a vote, yes I do.

Do you think the Average Canadian knows or has acess to more info than the government...info is the critical piece, to make informed decisions....Do you think this info should be made public ?

I think the average Canadian has the better moral and ethical grounding to make such an important decision. As far as the governments's information goes, of course it should be made public.

DO you think Canadians would really put any more thought into going to war or on operations than they do about any other militay matters ? And i don't want to take anything away from those few that do, Smallc, dereck,Sigs CPL,BC2004,DOP, and a few others that keep current because the topic because it interests them, but for the majority of Canadians it does not, infact it is a topic the have an opinion on but don't have the knowlegde base to make any decision on...And well, since it is a topic that i my life may depend on , no i don't want the Avg joe deciding anything in regards to the military.

The knowledge base can be improved by simply putting all the available information out there and presenting it honestly, but as I've said repeatedly I think it's the morality and ethics that the entire pool of Canadian voters would bring to the decision to go to war that is more important.

Perfect example of this is the F-35 project...in the end unless the cons can hold onto power until late 2020 there will be no f-35, why because the majority of Canadians don't want it...they know more than the Airforce, and want something different and won't stop until that happens. And it will as history shows us...it has become a political tool which will be used, regardless of the military application.

The F-35 is a perfect example of a fusion between the military-industrial complex and affiliated legion of aligned political and corporate ceo's. Many Canadians don't want these planes because they're concerned they'll be used in morally questionable conflicts - the morally questionable way in which proposals to fund them have been presented should underscore the point I'm making here.

In my opinion they have not earned that right, and i use the current state of our military as an example, sure while it is reflected on our government the people have the power to change it if only they had the will. while it may piss some off they way we treat our vets or soldiers we don't have the will to do anything about it...SO we let it ride....

Please save your Starship Troopers crap for Heinlein's fan club.

Next comment how do you plan to get people out to vote ? shit we can't even make it to the polling stations on a federal election.....

Mandatory voting, force them to.

Next i don't want that responsiablity in the avg joes hands, the government has done a poor job in handling military affairs , it would only get worse if all Canadians shared in that process.

You have no way of knowing that without trying.

So i ask you what will a referendum accomplish, will it give you peace of mind, what does the average voter get out of this....Because in the end our military will have the same job, to close with and destroy our enemies...a job that canadians are not comfortable with, and yet still need...

I'd like some peace of mind and conscience too. What the average voter gets is up to them. It will either give or with-hold our country's support for going off to war. It's the reasons for which you are sent that many Canadians are uncomfortable with and what Canadians want, not you is what matters here.

I also want to remind you that when the Afghan conflict first started we did have a Majority in favour....thousands showed up in trneton to see us off...cheering and yelling thinking we were going over there and the taliban were just going to give up in the face of our mighty Army, a product of Canada and it's military will....we went , we killed, we captured, and short time later Canadians changed their mind....and for 10 long years forgot about it's soldiers....how does voting change any of that...

It's too late to change what happened but we can recall how phony the support for this war really was and use that knowledge to underscore why we should require a super-majority. 50% + 1 or 2 in the heat of the moment is pretty slim.

Signals.Cpl · May 22, 2012

So the average soldier probably couldn't care less who decides where and when they go to war and the call to Support The Troops is really a call to Support the mission/operation/whatever. As far as troops go, perhaps you guy's would be better off forming a union and securing better benefits and equipment that makes your job safer that way.

Soldiers don't care where they are send because they serve at the pleasure of the people, wherever the government of Canada deems it necessary to deploy Canadian Forces personnel then those members are ready and willing to go do the job they are trained to do. There isn't a particular war zone soldiers want to go to, you have a job you do it, don't do the job you get kicked out.

Not on my own but collectively in a vote, yes I do.
I think the average Canadian has the better moral and ethical grounding to make such an important decision. As far as the governments's information goes, of course it should be made public.

Maybe so, but if the public does not have the knowledge or understanding of the issue in most cases due to lack of interest. I have said it before, we need to restructure our government so that the Member of Parliament speaks for the people, we voted him/her in and therefore they had to take their direction on how to vote from us instead of the party that they belong to.

The knowledge base can be improved by simply putting all the available information out there and presenting it honestly, but as I've said repeatedly I think it's the morality and ethics that the entire pool of Canadian voters would bring to the decision to go to war that is more important.

We live in an age where all the information is out there, just that people are too bay with their own lives to care or or just don't have the time to educated themselves on the issue.

The F-35 is a perfect example of a fusion between the military-industrial complex and affiliated legion of aligned political and corporate ceo's. Many Canadians don't want these planes because they're concerned they'll be used in morally questionable conflicts - the morally questionable way in which proposals to fund them have been presented should underscore the point I'm making here.

The F-35 is a political issue rather then a military one. The government should make a clearcut national strategy and give the military the resources to achieve said strategy rather then fight for every single piece of equipment and many times getting the substandard equipment for political reasons. When the government cannot make its mind up as to what they want out of the military, the military has to get the best piece of equipment to meet the many needs. The F-35 is likely not the best plane in anyone field but it has abilities that Canada can and would need at one point or another over the next 30 years. Just because many people do not want offensive wars does not mean that those wars will avoid us, no one wanted World War 2 but it came, those who were no ready suffered and those who were ready were a little better off, the time to start looking for a particular ability is no rather then 5 minutes after we realize we badly need it.

Mandatory voting, force them to.

Are you going to tell them who to vote for as well? If people don't want to vote, it is their choice. As much as I disagree with it people still have the choice to forgo voting.

I'd like some peace of mind and conscience too. What the average voter gets is up to them. It will either give or with-hold our country's support for going off to war. It's the reasons for which you are sent that many Canadians are uncomfortable with and what Canadians want, not you is what matters here.

What about peacekeeping? Or fulfilling our obligations under NATO, NORAD?

It's too late to change what happened but we can recall how phony the support for this war really was and use that knowledge to underscore why we should require a super-majority. 50% + 1 or 2 in the heat of the moment is pretty slim.

But that is democracy 50.01% is a majority, a slim majority but a majority all the same.

dre · May 22, 2012

do you think your any better at picking what conflict you send us to?

We shouldnt "pick" at all.

If and when the military actually has to defend Canada, it will be pretty damn obvious to anyone. The important thing is to stop wasting blood and treasure on all this failed world policing, which actually damages our national security and our economic future, and makes us less safe.

We could spend that money on something that actually have value, or a return on investment.

Signals.Cpl · May 23, 2012

We shouldnt "pick" at all.

If and when the military actually has to defend Canada, it will be pretty damn obvious to anyone. The important thing is to stop wasting blood and treasure on all this failed world policing, which actually damages our national security and our economic future, and makes us less safe.

We could spend that money on something that actually have value, or a return on investment.

I am 100% behind you on this one, over the last 50 or 60 years we have wasted billions on peacekeeping missions that in 99% of the cases were for nothing. If the world body can't do it right, we have no obligation to send Canadians to die on missions with little or no chance of a lasting peace.

Army Guy · May 23, 2012

So the average soldier probably couldn't care less who decides where and when they go to war and the call to Support The Troops is really a call to Support the mission/operation/whatever. As far as troops go, perhaps you guy's would be better off forming a union and securing better benefits and equipment that makes your job safer that way.

No i was explaining why the Avg Canadian decides to serve his country, And Yes we do care who decides, we want it done based on facts and research, something the Avg Canadian either does not have access to or fails to do any research...

That is not what "support the troops " means it you have our back, ensuring we are properly equiped for the jobs we are assigned, make sure we are looked after if and when we do come back with phyiscal or mental proeblems, it means supporting our families when we are gone , or killed. It's got nothing to do with the mission....Really a union... the people of Canada not up to the task ....it seems not, and now you want a say in were we go, how we are equiped, etc etc ....

Not on my own but collectively in a vote, yes I do.

I disagree, it is just a topic that Canadians are not interested in...

I think the average Canadian has the better moral and ethical grounding to make such an important decision. As far as the governments's information goes, of course it should be made public.

That is a pretty big claim you've made, that our political masters have none and now need the assistance of the Avg Canadian to keep their moral and ethical compass pionting true and straight...what about doing what is right for the majority of Canadians,were the needs of the many out wiegh the needs of the few....and what if doing the right thing is unmoral or unethical...what then...

As far as getting all the facts and info to the general public , having a debate, then getting everyone to a voting station....would take forever...on top of the fact not all the fact or info is meant for the general public....Look how long it took our government to react to Rwanda genicide....i can't fathom the people making a quick decision on anything....and what if you did not get aq super majority...we just let nature take it's course....Thats very ethical and moral is it not....

The F-35 is a perfect example of a fusion between the military-industrial complex and affiliated legion of aligned political and corporate ceo's. Many Canadians don't want these planes because they're concerned they'll be used in morally questionable conflicts - the morally questionable way in which proposals to fund them have been presented should underscore the point I'm making here.

No it is a perfect example of the majority of Canadians speaking out on a topic they have no clue about, it's a canadian tradition actually....The Airforce chose this aircraft, because it is the one they will climb into to defend this nation and our foreign policys abroad....it is the aircraft that gives them the best chance of coming back alive....what most Canadian do not take into account that once the current military force is expended in combat it will be their turn....

Morally unquestionable conflicts...is their such a thing ? These aircraft are wpns of war, they are designed and used for a couple of things, whoaing you at air shows and bringing death and destruction to our enemies....our enemies are chosen by a staff you we would all hope make those calls with info and intel not available to all....

In my opinion they have not earned that right, and i use the current state of our military as an example, sure while it is reflected on our government the people have the power to change it if only they had the will. while it may piss some off they way we treat our vets or soldiers we don't have the will to do anything about it...SO we let it ride....
Please save your Starship Troopers crap for Heinlein's fan club.

So now i'm a starship trooper for stating facts...so the majority of canadians when asked who supports the troops most if not all will stick up their hands ....and yet our current state of the military is being driven by the cons not the majority of people demanding from their current government to repair that state....their has been media articles after media articles on how well our military treats our wounded vets, with mental and phyiscal wounds....and when our government does nothing the poeple are quite....when our vets are treated like forgotten people , we turn the other way...

Let me ask you this if you were in my shoes would you openly give them the power to decide which conflict we are going to enter...or would you be pissed and openly state they have not earned that right....And if it sounds like starship trooper shit to you then your not listening...

Next i don't want that responsiablity in the avg joes hands, the government has done a poor job in handling military affairs , it would only get worse if all Canadians shared in that process.
You have no way of knowing that without trying.

It's been tried a thousand times and proven a thousand times Canadians don't give a shit about military matters...

I'd like some peace of mind and conscience too. What the average voter gets is up to them. It will either give or with-hold our country's support for going off to war. It's the reasons for which you are sent that many Canadians are uncomfortable with and what Canadians want, not you is what matters here.

I know basically soldiers are to be seen but not heard, locked up in glass cases only to be opened when needed....got a news flash for you...I pay taxes, and i do vote, i have the same rights as any Canadian out there....

The majority of Canadians think all we do is hand out blankets and cookies, shit they still think we a peace keeping nation...Canadians are uncomnfortable with the thought that Canadian soldiers are killing others to defend our foreign policies....and your right it's not about me...nor is it about you...if "WE" don't like it use your freedoms to change it....if they are to damn lazy to change it, then tell them to STFU....stop your whinning....

It's too late to change what happened but we can recall how phony the support for this war really was and use that knowledge to underscore why we should require a super-majority. 50% + 1 or 2 in the heat of the moment is pretty slim.

My first tour i remembered getting on the plane thousands of people lined the streets and were at the airport, their support was real...once they found out we were killing people they quickly changed that support....then they conviently forgot about us....that is until we were accused of doing something , unfounded or not...who does that, and then still has the balls to say "I support the troops" and now you want to vote on conflicts and wars....no thanks, i'll take my chances with the elected governments.

If i sound jaded it is because i am just like you are with our current governmental system....

eyeball · May 23, 2012

i'll take my chances with the elected governments.

They probably ignore me even more than they do you but if you're happy letting them call all the shots who the hell am I to argue?

Signals.Cpl · May 23, 2012

They probably ignore me even more than they do you but if you're happy letting them call all the shots who the hell am I to argue?

They might ignore you, but the Canadian people send us to missions without the proper equipment. And yes it is the Canadian people because they vote for the politicians who dismantle the military while at the same time commiting it to more missions.

Canuckistani · May 23, 2012

They might ignore you, but the Canadian people send us to missions without the proper equipment. And yes it is the Canadian people because they vote for the politicians who dismantle the military while at the same time commiting it to more missions.

Exactly. Which is why the "support the troops" chant is so insidious when used to silence dissent against sending the troops on futile missions. Unfortunately a lot of military fall into that trap, where speaking out against sending our troops is seen as military bashing, instead of what it often is - trying to save lives wasted on futile efforts. All that "Taliban Jack" and "No cut and run" when here we are, negotiating with the Taliban and cutting and running.

Our initial mission in Afghanistan made complete sense. Our ally had been attacked, and we owed them our support. Defeat Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and capture Bin Laden. Once the US took it's eye off the ball for other adventures and the mission became nation building, we should have withdrawn.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Canuckistani

GostHacked · May 23, 2012

They might ignore you, but the Canadian people send us to missions without the proper equipment.

Wrong, the Canadian GOVERNMENT sent them on the mission. Not the Canadian people. And if you think we can't afford decent kit when deploying overseas, what makes you think we can afford something like the F-35?

And yes it is the Canadian people because they vote for the politicians who dismantle the military while at the same time commiting it to more missions.

I'll call bullshit on this, because as soon as you get home, who helps you integrate back into society? The Government? AHAHAHAHAHAH

The people care more about it than our leaders. The same leaders willing to sacrifice YOU for THEIR gains without a blink of an eye. The government declares war (but no declaration given) .... Not to mention Canada went into Afghanistan under Chretien (Liberal), continued under Martin (Liberal) and continues yet under Harper (Conservative) .....

The people here are tired of this war, which has lasted longer than both World Wars without really any headway. The mission will continue past 2014, when our leaders told us we'd be out 2 years ago.

You can try to blame the people, but the people don't send our men and women to war. That's the governments 'responsibility'.

dre · May 23, 2012

They might ignore you, but the Canadian people send us to missions without the proper equipment. And yes it is the Canadian people because they vote for the politicians who dismantle the military while at the same time commiting it to more missions.

The "Canadian PEople" arent sending you on these missions. You are sent by the government against our will.

I have no interest what-so-ever in soldiers having to waste their time or their lives on these pointless adventures, and no interest at all on my money being wasted on them either.

I apologize to you and the members of the military for our governments behavior, and especially to the families of all the soldiers whos lives our government has needlessly forfeited... But you cant blame me for this.

Im a VICTIM of our government just like you!

Edited May 23, 2012 by dre

g_bambino · May 23, 2012

[A]s soon as you get home, who helps you integrate back into society? The Government? AHAHAHAHAHAH
The people care more about it than our leaders.

Then haven't you just hit on what 'support the troops' means, at least in part?

The Prince's Charities Canada, with the benefaction of Prince Charles, runs The Prince's Operation Entrepreneur programme, which provides Canadian Forces veterans with financial assistance, education, and mentoring on business practices in order to help them establish companies of their own. That's exactly the kind of support with integration back into society you mention as not coming from the government. It's provided regardless of what mission the veterans are veterans of.

[ed.: c/e]

Edited May 23, 2012 by g_bambino

g_bambino · May 23, 2012

Im a VICTIM of our government just like you!

Good grief. A person from North Korea would probably slap you in the face for whining about being a victim of a representative democracy.

Smallc · May 23, 2012

Good grief. A person from North Korea would probably slap you in the face for whining about being a victim of a representative democracy.

No kidding. Canada isn't your private island, Dre.

dre · May 23, 2012

No kidding. Canada isn't your private island, Dre.

I never said it was.

dre · May 23, 2012

Good grief. A person from North Korea would probably slap you in the face for whining about being a victim of a representative democracy.

:lol:

GostHacked · May 23, 2012

Good grief. A person from North Korea would probably slap you in the face for whining about being a victim of a representative democracy.

Too bad they don't know anything other than what is within their borders and what the government tells them.

GostHacked · May 23, 2012

Then haven't you just hit on what 'support the troops' means, at least in part?

The Prince's Charities Canada, with the benefaction of Prince Charles, runs The Prince's Operation Entrepreneur programme, which provides Canadian Forces veterans with financial assistance, education, and mentoring on business practices in order to help them establish companies of their own. That's exactly the kind of support with integration back into society you mention as not coming from the government. It's provided regardless of what mission the veterans are veterans of.

[ed.: c/e]

At least post a link. But this charity at a quick glance does some of what I am talking about. However it seems like it is more of a charity and I'd even classify it as an NGO. It's not government run from what I can tell, but does have departments like the DND supporting it.

g_bambino · May 23, 2012

[T]his charity at a quick glance does some of what I am talking about.

Sure. But, I was only using it as an example to consider when thinking about the question of what does "support the troops" mean? People try to make the phrase out to be synonymous with "support the mission" or "support war". Yet, The Prince's Operation Entrepreneur programme (and the two charitable organisations brought together to run it) can be seen as but one example actual support for the troops (even if they are, in that specific example, ex-troops); its "support the troops" put into action and takes no regard as to what missions the Canadian Forces vets were in, or even if they weren't in any at all. That kind of non-governmental assistance for (ex-)servicemen and women (support for the troops) is something you subtly hinted at in between pointing out that the government does little to integrate veterans back into civilian life and saying average people care more than (political, I assume) leaders do.

(Here's a direct link: The Prince's Operation Entrepreneur.)

[ed.: +]

Edited May 23, 2012 by g_bambino

Signals.Cpl · May 24, 2012

Wrong, the Canadian GOVERNMENT sent them on the mission. Not the Canadian people. And if you think we can't afford decent kit when deploying overseas, what makes you think we can afford something like the F-35?

And the Canadian people had NOTHING to do with the election of the Liberals? See I don't think it comes down to being able to afford or not afford proper kit. It comes down to shortsighted politicians who cut the military budget in order to balance the books and the people who keep electing them without demanding a properly funded military. Since 1960's the military has been on the cutting block because politicians see it as one of those areas where you can cut and cut and no one will ever care or notice because after all the soldiers will do the mission wether they have the kit or not, just because more of soldiers have to die to accomplish the same mission is not their concern. After all it was The Liberals who cancelled the helicopter purchase in 1993, then over the next decade a number of SAR helicopters went down with some SAR Techs dying because the government decided that the helicopter chosen is the Cadillac of the helicopters. Then they waited for Jean Chretien to hand over leadership before they turned around and bought the SAME helicopters. Right now, once the F-35s are purchased or cancelled the Canadian public will go on with their lives forget the military exists and promptly go back to the same old feel good "we are peacekeepers" bullshit. Then in the future whenever the military is required the people will "support the troops", there would be a rush to bring the military equipment up some laughable standard and then when the mission over and military goes back in the drawer to be forgotten and ignored while the DND budget is repeatedly slashed.

I'll call bullshit on this, because as soon as you get home, who helps you integrate back into society? The Government? AHAHAHAHAHAH

Go back and read some history from the 90's and see how the Canadian public treated soldiers. Veterans have 1-2 week window a year to shame the people in to getting some scraps from the Federal government, because the vets get some exposure around remembrance day and the day after November 11th the Vets are forgotten for another year. Tell me, how does the public help integrate soldiers coming back with PTSD? Or those who are missing limbs or other kinds of major physical injuries? Show me how the Canadian public helps homeless veterans, the once who went on these bullshit peacekeeping missions for which they were not properly trained, equipped, supported, or given the proper ROE's to even defend themselves. Show me concrete examples where the soldiers get any sort of help adjusting to civilian life, anything other then what the DND does for them?

The people care more about it than our leaders. The same leaders willing to sacrifice YOU for THEIR gains without a blink of an eye. The government declares war (but no declaration given) .... Not to mention Canada went into Afghanistan under Chretien (Liberal), continued under Martin (Liberal) and continues yet under Harper (Conservative) .....

And who elects those leader?

The people here are tired of this war, which has lasted longer than both World Wars without really any headway. The mission will continue past 2014, when our leaders told us we'd be out 2 years ago.

Source? Last I heard the CF is pulling out of Afghanistan in 2014 as is the US and probably every other member of the ISAF.

You can try to blame the people, but the people don't send our men and women to war. That's the governments 'responsibility'.

Sorry, I must have missed the civics class where the teacher explained how the people DONT elect their government. The Liberals were elected and they acted with the agreement of the people mainly because they were elected again AFTER they send in troops. The government has the responsibility at least in a democracy to follow the wishes of the people and if you think that the people had nothing to do with electing the Liberals and essentially approving their actions then there is nothing more we can talk about.

Signals.Cpl · May 24, 2012

The "Canadian PEople" arent sending you on these missions. You are sent by the government against our will.

I have no interest what-so-ever in soldiers having to waste their time or their lives on these pointless adventures, and no interest at all on my money being wasted on them either.

I apologize to you and the members of the military for our governments behavior, and especially to the families of all the soldiers whos lives our government has needlessly forfeited... But you cant blame me for this.

Im a VICTIM of our government just like you!

Somebody elected the Liberals, just like somebody elected the conservatives just like people voted for all other political parties. The politicians dont elect themselves. If the Canadian people did not want any involvement in Afghanistan, then there should have been an outcry during the elections.