Abortion revisited

[BubberMiley]

So you think its ok to have abortions instead of using a condom and/or birth control pills.

The point is it doesn't matter if I think it's okay or not. It's none of my business.

[Signals.Cpl]

Abortion because you failed to use other means of birth control is a perfectly legitimate reason.

The first time. Its ok to say I screwed up, I'm pregnant and I cannot afford or do not want the baby, but then they do it again, and again, and again and you guessed it once again. At some point someone has to step in and inform them that its cheaper and easier to put on a condom, use birth control pills or any other means.

[BubberMiley]

At some point someone has to step in and inform them that its cheaper and easier to put on a condom, use birth control pills or any other means.

Fine, you do that. But that won't give you the right to tell them they have to keep something in their body that they don't want.

[Signals.Cpl]

Fine, you do that. But that won't give you the right to tell them they have to keep something in their body that they don't want.

I think I have the right as does every other taxpayer. There are plenty of people waiting for legitimate operations and they have to wait long due to budget issues but then we spend money on morons who cannot use and form other form of birth control.Maybe if they had any sort of intelligence they would not be in the same position over and over and over again. If you want an abortion, then pay for it out of your own pocket, you are telling me that I have no say what comes out of their body but they have the right to repeatedly hit up the Tax payers for a free abortion?

[BubberMiley]

If you want an abortion, then pay for it out of your own pocket, you are telling me that I have no say what comes out of their body but they have the right to repeatedly hit up the Tax payers for a free abortion?

Yep. If you keep breaking your leg in skiing accidents, it's still none of my business. I can advise you to give it up, but I have no right to say the doctors shouldn't treat you.

[Guest American Woman]

To me an abortion has to have a legitimate reason behind it, instead of some 19 or 20 year old idiot girl who gets regular abortions because she is too stupid to use other means of birth control.

Do you have any proof that this is happening? Seriously. Do you think going in for an abortion is just a simple thing, like going to the drug store to buy a condom? It's a medical procedure; one that is often not even available in the city/town of residence of the woman seeking the abortion. If there is some proof that this is happening, I'd love to see it. I can't imagine that there are women thinking that being on the pill is too much effort but going in for abortion after abortion isn't.

[Black Dog]

I think I have the right as does every other taxpayer. There are plenty of people waiting for legitimate operations and they have to wait long due to budget issues but then we spend money on morons who cannot use and form other form of birth control.

False choice.

Maybe if they had any sort of intelligence they would not be in the same position over and over and over again.

Any evidence this is happening in a statistically significant way? In other words: is this even a problem?

If you want an abortion, then pay for it out of your own pocket, you are telling me that I have no say what comes out of their body but they have the right to repeatedly hit up the Tax payers for a free abortion?

Yes.

[Canuckistani]

Do you have any proof that this is happening? Seriously. Do you think going in for an abortion is just a simple thing, like going to the drug store to buy a condom? It's a medical procedure; one that is often not even available in the city/town of residence of the woman seeking the abortion. If there is some proof that this is happening, I'd love to see it. I can't imagine that there are women thinking that being on the pill is too much effort but going in for abortion after abortion isn't.

Background: Although repeat induced abortion is common, data concerning characteristics of women undergoing this procedure are lacking. We conducted this study to identify the characteristics, including history of physical abuse by a male partner and history of sexual abuse, of women who present for repeat induced abortion.

http://www.canadianmedicaljournal.ca/content/172/5/637.full

Repeat abortions account for roughly 40% of all abortions performed.

http://www.abortionincanada.ca/welcome.html

I support easy access to abortion, with no restrictions within a certain time limt - 20 weeks say, But, we need to do a better job of education to prevent so many repeat abortions.

[Wilber]

If these babies want equal protection they should stop being such freeloaders and stop loafing around other people's wombs for months on end.

Sometimes it is worth remembering that at one time, we were all a fetus.

[Guest American Woman]

You gotta be kidding me! We're talking human rights!

Nope, I'm not kidding you. Minors don't have the same rights as adults. Furthermore, embryos and fetuses, while human, are developing human beings. And as I pointed out, and don't recall your response, embryos can be frozen. Babies, after birth, cannot. Also, embryos and fetuses do not have the right to life insurance nor are they a tax deduction. They have yet to be born. They are also treated differently by Canadian law if they are killed by their mothers in their first year of life. I would say that's proof that babies don't have the same "human rights" as adults - in countries that have such "infanticide laws."

I think the normal procedures for rape victims is to get "cleaned out" in the hospital right after rape occurs. This not only prevents unwanted pregnancy but also STD.

While this may be the procedure that is best to be followed, guess again if you think it always happens. That nine year old girl that I referred to earlier sure didn't follow "normal procedure." So I'll ask you again - do you support abortion in the case of rape?

If you got rape, won't you go see the doctor to make sure you didn't get anything?

Just over half of rape victims don't report the crime. Do you really think that every rape victim goes to the doctor to make sure they didn't get anything? Seriously? If you truly did, you now know that they don't, so I'll await your answer.

Well that explains it. You're not on the right page! Here is what I'm on about....

Yes, that's what you are on about. Yet you don't define the issue. Just because that's what you are one about, along with some others, doesn't mean that's what it's all about.

Edited May 31, 2012 by American Woman

[Black Dog]

Women undergoing repeat abortions are more likely than those undergoing a first abortion to report using a method of contraception at the time of conception. In addition, women seeking repeat abortions report more challenging family situations than women seeking initial abortions: they are more likely to be separated, divorced, widowed or living in a common-law marriage, and to report difficulties with their male partner. They also are older, have more children and are more often non-white than women seeking initial abortions.

There is little evidence to suggest that women seeking repeat abortion are using pregnancy termination as a method of birth control

[Black Dog]

Sometimes it is worth remembering that at one time, we were all a fetus.

So?

[bush_cheney2004]

Sometimes it is worth remembering that at one time, we were all a fetus.

Yea...kinda puts things in perspective. Thanks Mom!

[Canuckistani]

Women undergoing repeat abortions are more likely than those undergoing a first abortion to report using a method of contraception at the time of conception. In addition, women seeking repeat abortions report more challenging family situations than women seeking initial abortions: they are more likely to be separated, divorced, widowed or living in a common-law marriage, and to report difficulties with their male partner. They also are older, have more children and are more often non-white than women seeking initial abortions.

There is little evidence to suggest that women seeking repeat abortion are using pregnancy termination as a method of birth control

If women seeking repeat abortions used contraceptives more than those seeking the first one, what does non-white have to do with using repeat abortions. Are contraceptives less effective with non-whites? Same with separated, divorced, widowed or living common-law. Seems to me there's a contradiction here.

[Black Dog]

If women seeking repeat abortions used contraceptives more than those seeking the first one, what does non-white have to do with using repeat abortions.

It doesn't have anything to do with it, it's a simple statistical fact.

Are contraceptives less effective with non-whites? Same with separated, divorced, widowed or living common-law. Seems to me there's a contradiction here.

What's the contradiction?

[Canuckistani]

It doesn't have anything to do with it, it's a simple statistical fact.

What's the contradiction?

They're presumably listing reasons why repeating women weren't using contraceptives, yet say more repeaters use them.

Do you not agree that 40% of abortions performed are on repeaters is a shocking statistic? Do you think that figure can be explained by contraception failure?

Edited May 31, 2012 by Canuckistani

[Signals.Cpl]

Do you have any proof that this is happening? Seriously. Do you think going in for an abortion is just a simple thing, like going to the drug store to buy a condom? It's a medical procedure; one that is often not even available in the city/town of residence of the woman seeking the abortion. If there is some proof that this is happening, I'd love to see it. I can't imagine that there are women thinking that being on the pill is too much effort but going in for abortion after abortion isn't.

Yes it is, its simple enough for a women to go and get an abortion, and no getting a condom is simpler but thats the point. I know women who have had multiple abortions because their boyfriends don't like using a condom. Its irresponsible and stupid women who expose themselves to this repeatedly, you don't think there are those who seem to think these people exist but trust me they do, and they are not ashamed to explain why they have had 2,3 or 4 abortions.

[Guest American Woman]

http://www.canadianmedicaljournal.ca/content/172/5/637.full

Background: Although repeat induced abortion is common, data concerning characteristics of women undergoing this procedure are lacking. We conducted this study to identify the characteristics, including history of physical abuse by a male partner and history of sexual abuse, of women who present for repeat induced abortion.

http://www.canadianm.../172/5/637.full

Repeat abortions account for roughly 40% of all abortions performed.

http://www.abortionincanada.ca/welcome.html

I support easy access to abortion, with no restrictions within a certain time limt - 20 weeks say, But, we need to do a better job of education to prevent so many repeat abortions.

Thank you for the information/sources.

The information that you linked to states that older women are more likely to be having repeat abortions, which would indicate that young women aren't having abortion after abortion rather than using contraceptives. Furthermore, the info says that only slightly more than 8% of repeat abortions are a third abortion. And of course some of these women did use contraceptives; contraceptives aren't foolproof, and some have a higher success rate than others. The information presented also doesn't tell how much time has elapsed between abortions, suggesting to me, that since older women are more likely to be having repeat abortions, a few years have passed between their first and second or third abortion.

Again, I don't see the information as supporting the scenario that was presented; I don't see it as supporting the idea that young women are having abortion after abortion rather than using contraceptives.

Edited May 31, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

Yes it is, its simple enough for a women to go and get an abortion, and no getting a condom is simpler but thats the point. I know women who have had multiple abortions because their boyfriends don't like using a condom. Its irresponsible and stupid women who expose themselves to this repeatedly, you don't think there are those who seem to think these people exist but trust me they do, and they are not ashamed to explain why they have had 2,3 or 4 abortions.

I'm sure there are some stupid women - just as there are stupid men who have unprotected sex because they don't like using a condom. They are just as stupid and irresponsible as the woman - and just as responsible for the resulting pregnancy.

As the available information shows, however, the women you are referring to are hardly the norm; they are the exception.

(And no, it's not always simple for a woman to go in and get an abortion.)

[Guest American Woman]

If women seeking repeat abortions used contraceptives more than those seeking the first one, what does non-white have to do with using repeat abortions. Are contraceptives less effective with non-whites?

Same with separated, divorced, widowed or living common-law. Seems to me there's a contradiction here.

Perhaps they make different contraceptive choices? All contraceptives are not as effective.

[Canuckistani]

http://www.abortionincanada.ca/welcome.html

I support easy access to abortion, with no restrictions within a certain time limt - 20 weeks say, But, we need to do a better job of education to prevent so many repeat abortions.

Thank you for the information/sources.

The information that you linked to states that older women are more likely to be having repeat abortions, which would indicate that young women aren't having abortion after abortion rather than using contraceptives. Furthermore, the info says that only slightly more than 8% of repeat abortions are a third abortion. And of course some of these women did use contraceptives; contraceptives aren't foolproof, and some have a higher success rate than others. The information presented also doesn't tell how much time has elapsed between abortions, suggesting to me, that since older women are more likely to be having repeat abortions, a few years have passed between their first and second or third abortion.

Again, I don't see the information as supporting the scenario that was presented; I don't see it as supporting the idea that young women are having abortion after abortion rather than using contraceptives.

In a way it doesn't matter, since I would never advocate denying a woman an abortion because she's had one before. I just wanted to look it up for myself, and was shocked to see how common repeat abortions are. I do think we can do better here. I'm for abortion because I see it as the lesser of two evils, but would rather we prevent it as much as possible. Not least because of the psychological effects it has on many women.

[Black Dog]

Yes it is, its simple enough for a women to go and get an abortion, and no getting a condom is simpler but thats the point. I know women who have had multiple abortions because their boyfriends don't like using a condom. Its irresponsible and stupid women who expose themselves to this repeatedly, you don't think there are those who seem to think these people exist but trust me they do, and they are not ashamed to explain why they have had 2,3 or 4 abortions.

Wait, what?

[Wilber]

So?

Think about it.

[Black Dog]

They're presumably listing reasons why repeating women weren't using contraceptives, yet say more repeaters use them.

Do you not agree that 40% of abortions performed are on repeaters is a shocking statistic? Do you think that figure can be explained by contraception failure?

Failure or improper use of contraceptives, yes.

[Black Dog]

Think about it.

Yes, I was a fetus once. Now what?

You know who else was a fetus once? Hitler.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Black Dog