Fired for free expression?

[Guest American Woman]

I don't think he violated anything. Even as a soldier he has free speech. Just now we can all see it because people post this stuff online. Once that happens, it's hard to erase and the damage done. I question leadership all the time. If I did not I would not be where I am today.

If you posted online 'screw [fill in the name of your boss]' and declared that you will not do what he tells you to do unless you agree with it, I doubt whether you would be where you are today; ie; still employed by that company.

Edited November 8, 2012 by American Woman

[jacee]

I was hired to a position that requires me to think. Recently I made my concerns known about a certain process we are implementing on a national level. I've had a lot of experience with the program we are using. I made some good suggestions, but other members on the team had different ideas (and know a lot less about the program we are using) and my suggestions were mostly ignored.

If you know something does not work, what do you do? Keep doing it, or try to make a change for the better? And if it does not work, it will set you up for failure.

I don't think he violated anything. Even as a soldier he has free speech. Just now we can all see it because people post this stuff online. Once that happens, it's hard to erase and the damage done. I question leadership all the time. If I did not I would not be where I am today.

And that includes questioning the Commander in Chief if he is violating the constitution. Or starting another war under false pretenses.

It all depends how it is done. I've had it out with bosses in every job I've held including the one I have now, and I have quit a couple jobs simply because my concerns were not taken into consideration.

If you have quality leadership, there would be no reason to question. When leadership is not working as expected, questions need to be asked. Firing someone for questioning and hiring a person who will do the job without question does not resolve the root issue which is unrealistic expectations from leadership when most know the process sends us in the wrong direction.

Here is the other side of this. When leadership puts in a new process and we fail to make it work (due to unrealistic expectations regardless of voiced concerns) people are let go. So even when we DON'T question it, we run the risk of getting fired because we could not make the process work no matter what we did. That is not a failure on our part, but we end up paying for the failed leadership and the decisions they make.

It depends how it is handled. You can be respectful when questioning leadership. It can be constructive. If leadership is not willing to listen, then they are not leaders.

The topic is not about disagreeing with your bosses in person in the workplace.

It's about dissing your boss behind his back but in a very public forum.

It's not about disagreeing, but about publicly expressing intent to disobey direct orders, in violation of his employment contract/oath of service.

It's not a freedom of speech issue because he agreed to those terms.

And btw, you can be fired for disobeying direct orders even if you're not in the military.

It's a condition of employment.

Good topic. It's clear there are some unrealistic ideas of what free speech means.

There are limits and there are consequences.

Edited November 8, 2012 by jacee

[Guest American Woman]

Another FB member finds out that freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences:

Woman fired over Facebook post speculating on Obama assassination - http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/11/turlock-woman-fired-facebook-obama.html

Her racist remark "and another 4 years of the n**** [my edit]...maybe he will get assassinated this term..!!" went viral and caught the attention of the Secret Service - and her employer. End result. No more job.

[jacee]

Good example.

One won't go to jail for unwise free speech, but might be socially ostracized ... or fired.

If she had wished, hoped, or wanted Obama to be assassinated, instead of just wondered, the authorities might be a lot more concerned.

[Sleipnir]

This Marine was dishonorably discharged for calling Obama a liar on his facebook page, and suggesting he might not follow certain orders.

When you're in the military you are expect to follow the order from your superior. I serious doubt that acts of insubordination are permitted in the military. So the way I see it, it does not fall under 'freedom of expression'.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Sleipnir

[bleeding heart]

If you posted online 'screw [fill in the name of your boss]' and declared that you will not do what he tells you to do unless you agree with it, I doubt whether you would be where you are today; ie; still employed by that company.

For sure. Heck, I once worked at Walmart...and we were explicitly informed that "discussing our wages" with one another would be possible grounds for dismissal.

[kimmy]

Another FB member finds out that freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences:

Woman fired over Facebook post speculating on Obama assassination - http://latimesblogs....book-obama.html

Her racist remark "and another 4 years of the n**** [my edit]...maybe he will get assassinated this term..!!" went viral and caught the attention of the Secret Service - and her employer. End result. No more job.

I suspect the Secret Service aspect of this story is mostly media hype. "The Secret Service said all threats or perceived threats are taken seriously and investigated, but it declined further comment." I doubt the Secret Service is spending much time trying to figure out if a 22 year old ice-cream girl is a threat to the President, but "Secret Service investigating" is something that makes a story more "newsy".

But I am sure that if we look at the way this story is being covered on the right-wing noise-boxes, or look in the comments section on their articles, we will probably find that fanatics are interpreting this to mean that the Secret Service is going to conduct a witch-hunt against people who publicly criticize Obama, comparing it to how communist states hunt down people who criticize Dear Leader.

-k

[Guest]

Another FB member finds out that freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences:

Woman fired over Facebook post speculating on Obama assassination - http://latimesblogs....book-obama.html

Her racist remark "and another 4 years of the n**** [my edit]...maybe he will get assassinated this term..!!" went viral and caught the attention of the Secret Service - and her employer. End result. No more job.

As long as the government doesn't try to punish her. Facebook has no obligation to provide a forum for her views, and her employer undoubtedly has standards for their employees that she has obviously fallen well below.

Astonishingly, in the UK right now, the police and the courts would deem it necessary to get involved.

[Wilber]

Nugent insulted. That's a laugh. What a piece of work. As far as being singled out by fish and game authorities is concerned, anyone who has spent time in Alaska knows they take their wildlife regs very seriously and tend to crap big time on those who violate them. He's not being singled out, he's just pissed because he isn't getting special consideration.