Canada's surpluses and deficits

[Topaz]

Here's a chart of Canada's years of surpluses and deficits under either the PC or the Liberals since 1963 and until Chretien came into power, no party could reduce the deficit. Now, I know aome people think the way the Liberals did it was wrong because they under cut the military to get the money for the debt, so now we can compare their to the Tories under Harper who is doing his reductions affect Canadians workers and social programs. http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/canada-deficit/

[Shady]

I guess you must have missed the Liberals cuttin EI and transfer payments and government overall by 15% when they balanced the budget.

[Tilter]

Your CBC reference is another demonstration of the love the CBC has fro the CPC.

[Tilter]

I guess you must have missed the Liberals cuttin EI and transfer payments and government overall by 15% when they balanced the budget.

But THOSE cuts were to fund ADSCAM <_<

[dre]

Here's a chart of Canada's years of surpluses and deficits under either the PC or the Liberals since 1963 and until Chretien came into power, no party could reduce the deficit. Now, I know aome people think the way the Liberals did it was wrong because they under cut the military to get the money for the debt, so now we can compare their to the Tories under Harper who is doing his reductions affect Canadians workers and social programs. http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/canada-deficit/

I think the liberals deserve some credit for that. They could have just kept spending borrowed money like all the other governments do.

But really I think the reason we were able to balance the budget was because of the .COM boom. Even the US ran close to balanced budgets for part of the 90's.

[Michael Hardner]

I think the liberals deserve some credit for that. They could have just kept spending borrowed money like all the other governments do.

But really I think the reason we were able to balance the budget was because of the .COM boom. Even the US ran close to balanced budgets for part of the 90's.

They cut transfer payments, though, forcing the provinces to deal with it. The money will still be spent and borrowed unless services are reduced, or consolidated. Nobody is really good at that, it seems, and I'm not sure why.

[cybercoma]

Here's a chart of Canada's years of surpluses and deficits under either the PC or the Liberals since 1963 and until Chretien came into power, no party could reduce the deficit. Now, I know aome people think the way the Liberals did it was wrong because they under cut the military to get the money for the debt, so now we can compare their to the Tories under Harper who is doing his reductions affect Canadians workers and social programs. http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/canada-deficit/

Remember when I pointed out that Mr. Mulcair said the Conservatives were starting fires only to put them out later? That graph illustrates perfectly how they've destroyed the government's fiscal capacity while dramatically increasing spending. They created the crisis and they're going to solve it by enacting austerity measures that allow them to gut government services in accordance with their destructive ideology.

[Topaz]

I guess you must have missed the Liberals cuttin EI and transfer payments and government overall by 15% when they balanced the budget.

The debt that Harper has was created by THEM on what? Where did that 13 Billion surplus go or better yet how did it get up to 54 Billion? Harper has increase premiums on EI, while increasing EI lines. Let's just wait and see how much cutting Harper does and he's already cut health care transfers to the future to 3% when the feds using to pay 50%.

[fellowtraveller]

The Liberalsa 'slayed the deficit' with two tools: cutting transfer p[ayments to the provinces and by a fortuitous drop in interest rates on the national debt.

That was a long time ago.

I like the reference to the Tories 'created the crisis' that has deviled the worlds economies for close to five years. They are sneaky bastards all righty.

[punked]

The debt that Harper has was created by THEM on what? Where did that 13 Billion surplus go or better yet how did it get up to 54 Billion? Harper has increase premiums on EI, while increasing EI lines. Let's just wait and see how much cutting Harper does and he's already cut health care transfers to the future to 3% when the feds using to pay 50%.

Hold on. The LIBERALS cut health care transfers from 50% down to 12% by the time they were done, at least Harper has brought it back to 18% I will give him real create where the LIBERALS have failed. Now that he doesn't have a minority he will cut it back to 12 I am sure but lets be serious here the real health care cutters were and have been the Liberals.

[Shady]

They created the crisis and they're going to solve it by enacting austerity measures that allow them to gut government services in accordance with their destructive ideology.

Yes, they created the crisis.

It was Harper that created the American financial and real estate crash. It was also Harper that created the European debt crisis. Don't you ever get tired of your Harper Derangement Syndrome? It makes you look like a complete idiot.

[BubberMiley]

Don't you ever get tired of your Harper Derangement Syndrome? It makes you look like a complete idiot.

Not as much as using a term like "Harper Derangement Syndrome" does.

[cybercoma]

Yes, they created the crisis.

It was Harper that created the American financial and real estate crash. It was also Harper that created the European debt crisis. Don't you ever get tired of your Harper Derangement Syndrome? It makes you look like a complete idiot.

You know what looks bad? Blaming all the failures on external forces (American financial crisis, Europe, Liberal government, etc.) whilst attributing all the successes to Harper. It's disingenuous and shows a total lack of intellectual honesty.

[Shady]

You know what looks bad? Blaming all the failures on external forces (American financial crisis, Europe, Liberal government, etc.) whilst attributing all the successes to Harper. It's disingenuous and shows a total lack of intellectual honesty.

I haven't attributed all successes to Harper. In fact, in other threads I've criticized his spending. But you on the otherhand, either don't understand, or don't want to understand how a bad American economy, and a bad European economy effects Canada.

Ever heard the quote from Trudeau? "When America sneezes, Canada catches a cold." Well, add Europe sneezing as well. But you don't care about facts. Instead, you create these tinfoil conspiracies about the Harper government creating a crisis. Well, the biggest crisis affecting the Canadian economy is the American and European economies. Enough with your Harper Derangement Syndrome. You sound like a crazy person.

[Shady]

It's disingenuous and shows a total lack of intellectual honesty.

You should know, you're the champion of disingeniousness and intellectual dishonest.

[cybercoma]

I haven't attributed all successes to Harper. In fact, in other threads I've criticized his spending. But you on the otherhand, either don't understand, or don't want to understand how a bad American economy, and a bad European economy effects Canada.

Ever heard the quote from Trudeau? "When America sneezes, Canada catches a cold." Well, add Europe sneezing as well. But you don't care about facts. Instead, you create these tinfoil conspiracies about the Harper government creating a crisis. Well, the biggest crisis affecting the Canadian economy is the American and European economies. Enough with your Harper Derangement Syndrome. You sound like a crazy person.

It's interesting that you would think that what I meant by crisis is the financial crash of 2008. I'm glad you think I'm a complete moron, but that isn't the crisis that I'm talking about.

[Shady]

It's interesting that you would think that what I meant by crisis is the financial crash of 2008. I'm glad you think I'm a complete moron, but that isn't the crisis that I'm talking about.

Oh I know. You're referring to your tinfoil made up conspriacies. Mel Gibson would be proud.

[Shady]

Anyone with even just a thread of economic knowledge knows that our fiscal situation was mostly impacted by the American recession and subsequent slow recovery, and the European debt crisis. It's common knowledge. At least with those not severly stricken with Harper Derangement Syndrome.

[cybercoma]

Oh I know. You're referring to your tinfoil made up conspriacies. Mel Gibson would be proud.

Is this what passes for discussion on this forum? Or should I point out the rules to you?

[cybercoma]

Anyone with even just a thread of economic knowledge knows that our fiscal situation was mostly impacted by the American recession and subsequent slow recovery, and the European debt crisis. It's common knowledge. At least with those not severly stricken with Harper Derangement Syndrome.

Anyone with even just a thread of economic knowledge knows that we were in a good position without the government even doing anything. The regulations that saved our asses were already in place. All of Harper's tinkering is exactly what I said: a manufactured crisis that he gets to fix going into the next elections. CPC candidates everywhere will be saying, "Vote for me and I'll solve all of the country's problems," without any regard for the fact that they created the problem by destroying the fed's fiscal capacity. It's nothing more than political blackmail.

Edited April 24, 2012 by cybercoma

[Shady]

Anyone with even just a thread of economic knowledge knows that we were in a good position without the government even doing anything. The regulations that saved our asses were already in place. All of Harper's tinkering is exactly what I said: a manufactured crisis that he gets to fix going into the next elections. CPC candidates everywhere will be saying, "Vote for me and I'll solve all of the country's problems," without any regard for the fact that they created the problem by destroying the fed's fiscal capacity. It's nothing more than political blackmail.

Once again, your premise is complete nonsense. The fed's fiscal capacity was negatively impacted by the global recession, brought upon by the American financial and real estate crash, and also the European debt crisis. Harper's so-called tinkering pales in comparison. You're polical flatulence is getting tiresome.

[BubberMiley]

Once again, your premise is complete nonsense. The fed's fiscal capacity was negatively impacted by the global recession, brought upon by the American financial and real estate crash, and also the European debt crisis. Harper's so-called tinkering pales in comparison. You're polical flatulence is getting tiresome.

Over in the U.S. politics side, the Obama Derangement Syndrome takes over and there was no American financial and real estate crash, and everything is Obama's fault. It's amazing to watch when partisan blinders don't cause any cognitive dissonance.

[capricorn]

It's nothing more than political blackmail.

A reduction in the GST and lower personal/corporate taxes is my kind of blackmail. Call me self centered.

[cybercoma]

Once again, your premise is complete nonsense. The fed's fiscal capacity was negatively impacted by the global recession, brought upon by the American financial and real estate crash, and also the European debt crisis. Harper's so-called tinkering pales in comparison. You're polical flatulence is getting tiresome.

There it is! I win! :lol:

[August1991]

Anyone with even just a thread of economic knowledge knows that we were in a good position without the government even doing anything. The regulations that saved our asses were already in place.

That's a debateable point. Canadian financial regulations are arguably less stringent, and easier to circumvent, than US regulations. For example, Canadian banks have no minimum reserve requirements.

But anyway, cybercoma, you admirably move away from Harper-bashing and think rather of his "neo-liberal ideology" when you make such arguments.

And there's the rub. The graph in the OP fails to include broader macroeconomic conditions. In 2008-09 (as in 1980-82), government tax revenues fell sharply because of lower economic activity - meanwhile government spending rose more quickly because of mandated transfer payments. (Look at the graph carefully.)

IOW, ideology aside, Harper and Obama both became leaders at an unfortunate macro-economic moment.

----

Last point: Look at the graph at the end of the Mulroney government (1990-92). Government spending was (finally) falling and revenues rising. That's remarkable, given the mini-recession. And it took six years or so to get there.

The successors to Obama, McGuinty and Charest may face a similar uphill battle.