Obamacare VS The Constitution

[Shady]

Apparently yesterday was a disaster for the Obama administration at the Supreme Court. Obama's Solicitor General basically threw up all over himself trying to argue in favour of the individual mandate.

Today doesn't sound as though things got any better for them. CNN's Jeffrey Toobin described this mornings arguments as a plane crash, in which the enitre law will probably be struck down by the court.

Heckuva job Barry.

[dre]

Its a good thing if the mandate gets struck down... the government will be forced to find a better way to deal with the free rider problem. But be carefull what you cheer for because striking down the mandate will mean the government takes a larger and more expensive role in healthcare, and the tax payer is left holding the bag when people without insurance get sick.

[stopstaaron]

U.S needs some kind of universal healthcare ..at least Obama's heart was in the right place but it isn't going to work unless the republicans & the democrats work on a bill together

[stopstaaron]

CNN's Jeffrey Toobin described this mornings arguments as a plane crash, in which the enitre law will probably be struck down by the court.

That isn't what I read.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/28/politics/scotus-health-care/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Washington (CNN) -- The heart of the health care law championed by President Barack Obama may be in judicial trouble, but the Supreme Court appeared inclined Wednesday to keep at least some provisions of the sweeping reform legislation intact.

[punked]

Apparently yesterday was a disaster for the Obama administration at the Supreme Court. Obama's Solicitor General basically threw up all over himself trying to argue in favour of the individual mandate.

Today doesn't sound as though things got any better for them. CNN's Jeffrey Toobin described this mornings arguments as a plane crash, in which the enitre law will probably be struck down by the court.

Heckuva job Barry.

Wow I for one am suprised the Media wrote the headline which would get them the most readers. Yep just shocked.

[Signals.Cpl]

I'm curious, what are the major problems with the Obamacare? I don't really know much about is and was wondering why people are opposed or for as the case may be.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm curious, what are the major problems with the Obamacare? I don't really know much about is and was wondering why people are opposed or for as the case may be.

The major problems include:

1) Individual mandate to purchase health insurance or face tax penalties (unconstitutional to force Americans to buy a product or service).

2) Expansion of Medicaid eligibility that states will have to cover (additional impact to states' budgets.

3) Prevents insurance companies from using market based risk premiums.

4) Cost controlling "ethics panels" to save money and send grandma to the grave early.

[dre]

The major problems include:

1) Individual mandate to purchase health insurance or face tax penalties (unconstitutional to force Americans to buy a product or service).

2) Expansion of Medicaid eligibility that states will have to cover (additional impact to states' budgets.

3) Prevents insurance companies from using market based risk premiums.

4) Cost controlling "ethics panels" to save money and send grandma to the grave early.

All of these problems could be solved with a public non profit insurance option... Which is what they should have done in the first place and what Obama wanted to do. Instead he let lobbiests for the insurance industry write the piece of corporate welfare thats currently on the books.

[bush_cheney2004]

All of these problems could be solved with a public non profit insurance option... Which is what they should have done in the first place and what Obama wanted to do. Instead he let lobbiests for the insurance industry write the piece of corporate welfare thats currently on the books.

The so called 'public option' was politically DOA. The Clintons found that out in 1993. Besides, many states already have non-profit HMOs.

[dre]

The so called 'public option' was politically DOA. The Clintons found that out in 1993. Besides, many states already have non-profit HMOs.

Well there was strong popular support for it. And really it was pretty close... just a few more congressional retards on his side and he wouldnt have had to trade the public option for a mandate.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well there was strong popular support for it. And really it was pretty close... just a few more congressional retards on his side and he wouldnt have had to trade the public option for a mandate.

Strong popular support by a minority of voters does not a public option make. A majority of polled Americans were satisfied with their existing health care insurance:

Most Americans report high levels of satisfaction with the health care they receive, with 58 percent satisfied and 23 percent dissatisfied with their health care.

Satisfaction with health care is highest among those with Medicare, with 73 percent satisfied and 16 dissatisfied. Those with employer-provided plans also report high levels (65 percent) of satisfaction with their health care. 53 percent among those on Medicaid report satisfaction with health care, and 27 percent are dissatisfied.

http://reason.com/blog/2012/03/28/reason-rupe-58-percent-of-american-satis

[dre]

Strong popular support by a minority of voters does not a public option make. A majority of polled Americans were satisfied with their existing health care insurance:

Most Americans report high levels of satisfaction with the health care they receive, with 58 percent satisfied and 23 percent dissatisfied with their health care.

Satisfaction with health care is highest among those with Medicare, with 73 percent satisfied and 16 dissatisfied. Those with employer-provided plans also report high levels (65 percent) of satisfaction with their health care. 53 percent among those on Medicaid report satisfaction with health care, and 27 percent are dissatisfied.

http://reason.com/blog/2012/03/28/reason-rupe-58-percent-of-american-satis

A clear majority of Americans -- 72 percent -- support a government-sponsored health care plan to compete with private insurers, a new CBS News/New York Times poll finds. Most also think the government would do a better job than private industry at keeping down costs and believe that the government should guarantee health care for all Americans.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500160_162-5098517.html

[bush_cheney2004]

A clear majority of Americans -- 72 percent -- support a government-sponsored health care plan to compete with private insurers, a new CBS News/New York Times poll finds. Most also think the government would do a better job than private industry at keeping down costs and believe that the government should guarantee health care for all Americans.

The US and state governments already have many programs that do this. The US government cannot guarantee health care any more than the Canadian government can. Health care is not a right.

A majority of Americans will not jeopardize their existing employer sponsored plans to provide insurance for all.

Edited April 1, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[dre]

The US and state governments already have many programs that do this. The US government cannot guarantee health care any more than the Canadian government can. Health care is not a right.

A majority of Americans will not jeopardize their existing employer sponsored plans to provide insurance for all.

They wouldnt have to....

[bush_cheney2004]

They wouldnt have to....

Yes they would....Americans would experience the rationing and scarcity seen in Canada. Many doctors refuse to take on new Medicaid patients even today because of low reimbursement rates. Higher fee for service rates ensure excess capacity for those with the ability to pay. Again, health care is not a right, not even in Canada.

[August1991]

Yes they would....Americans would experience the rationing and scarcity seen in Canada.

Perhaps. But what is more important, Americans would suffer the lack of innovation.

We Canadians benefit from American innovation.

(What would the French State be without individual Quebec cultural invention?)

Edited April 1, 2012 by August1991

[Shady]

We Canadians benefit from American innovation.

Exactly.

[Shady]

Anyone else hear Obama's solicitor general fall on his face during the arguments at the Supreme Court?

[punked]

Anyone else hear Obama's solicitor general fall on his face during the arguments at the Supreme Court?

Getting a little ahead of yourself there Shady. Here is the facts, after years of failing to stop the rise in insurance costs and having Americans die the Democrats did something. You might not agree with it but they tried. At this point the Republicans have NO SOLUTIONS to the problem. We will see what happens but they tried.

[Shady]

At this point the Republicans have NO SOLUTIONS to the problem.

Wrong as usual. The Republicans offered all kinds of solutions. The biggest being taking away the health insurance's anti-trust exemption. Why do you insist on giving insurance companies this exemption punked? Why are you on the side of big insurance? Why is the president, and why are Democrats?

Do the right thing. End health insurance's anti-trust exemption. End their monopolies.

[dre]

Yes they would....Americans would experience the rationing and scarcity seen in Canada. Many doctors refuse to take on new Medicaid patients even today because of low reimbursement rates. Higher fee for service rates ensure excess capacity for those with the ability to pay. Again, health care is not a right, not even in Canada.

Thats not germane to the argument you presented. You claimed people would have to give up their private insurers but they would not. In fact... the introduction of a public option would really be a step towards privatisation.

[punked]

Wrong as usual. The Republicans offered all kinds of solutions. The biggest being taking away the health insurance's anti-trust exemption. Why do you insist on giving insurance companies this exemption punked? Why are you on the side of big insurance? Why is the president, and why are Democrats?

Do the right thing. End health insurance's anti-trust exemption. End their monopolies.

Wont do anything Shady competition isn't the problem for those who get kicked off their health insurance, for those who have per-existing conditions, for students getting kick off their parents insurance, for the 30 million uninsured. It wont solve the problem, I would like to see single payer but when it comes to the political possibilities hate to say it Romney was right a mandate is needed. That is the only way to insure all Americans. Otherwise it is insurance for some, no healthcare for others, or worse healthcare for others in which the bill is picked up by the tax payers.

BTW the Democratic's already did what you say they wont do and Obama supported it. More Shady lies eh?\

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/24/AR2010022404324.html

The House voted Wednesday to strip health insurance companies of their exemption from federal antitrust laws, a Democratic measure that could resonate with public concerns about insurers but that has an uncertain future in the Senate.

The provision passed on a 406 to 19 vote, with most Republicans joining all the House Democrats in voting for the measure.

Everyone might notice the only people to vote against this thing Shady says the Republicans are for the Dems are against were REPUBLICANS!

Don't worry Shady now that you have been caught in another lie I don't expect you to respond to it. Maybe you right wing blogs have some talking points for you on this one. But if they don't, don't worry I know when you are caught in a lie you just pretend you never read the post.

Republicans have one plan for Healthcare. If you are Rich you are fine, if you are poor don't get sick, and if you are in the middle it is a toss up. That is it.

Edited April 1, 2012 by punked

[bush_cheney2004]

Thats not germane to the argument you presented. You claimed people would have to give up their private insurers but they would not. In fact... the introduction of a public option would really be a step towards privatisation.

It is directly related to my original 'argument', and I did not claim that people would have to give up employer based insurance. Higher demand with lower reimbursements would only lead to rationing and shortages to provide universal access to the 15% who do not have it today. What is excess capacity today would turn into Canadian style gate-keeping and long wait times.

[Shady]

Wont do anything

Actually, it would.

BTW the Democratic's already did what you say they wont do and Obama supported it.

Awesome. Why didn't they include it in their plan?

Republicans have one plan for Healthcare.

Actually, there are several plans, with a list of many reforms. You just choose to ignore them so you can spout your leftwing talking points. As usual.

[dre]

It is directly related to my original 'argument', and I did not claim that people would have to give up employer based insurance. Higher demand with lower reimbursements would only lead to rationing and shortages to provide universal access to the 15% who do not have it today. What is excess capacity today would turn into Canadian style gate-keeping and long wait times.

Well employer based insurance is pure government intervention. It oughtta be shut down because it places an unfair burden on the private sector and puts companies at a disadvantage when competing with companies in places where the government has NOT forced the private sector to be their employees moms.

There would be way less government intervention in a system where private insurers were deregulated, and forced to compete with a public non profit agency.

You are also wrong about scarcity. Because people without insurance eventually need more care than people with insurance. They wait until preventable and treatable conditions progress into medical emergencies and then they show up at the ER, where the government forces private hospitals to treat them under the emergency medicine act.

Really you guys are unwittingly arguing for the most government intervention in the healthcare market possible.