mentalfloss Posted March 29, 2012 Report Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I pointed this one out a long time ago. (in a thread) In 4 years or so (God knows what the price of hydro will be then) when this program is finished people will get a rude awakening when they see the real price of hydro. I don't McDalton will be in power then though. He did this to try and divert people's attention from the fact he's fleecing people on the price of hydro. The price of hydro is increasing partly because much of the current equipment is out of date and needs to be replaced. It's also because of the debt incurred when Harris split up Hydro One into five companies. Edited March 29, 2012 by mentalfloss Quote
Boges Posted March 29, 2012 Report Posted March 29, 2012 The price of hydro is increasing partly because much of the current equipment is out of date and needs to be replaced. It's also because of the debt incurred when Harris split up Hydro One into five companies. Yeah the Green Energy program has nothing to do with it. Regarding Debt Retirement, that appears as a separate segment on the bill, it's not what's been going up in the past few years. When will that debt be paid off anyway? Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 29, 2012 Report Posted March 29, 2012 That's the type of ignorance that I find intolerable. Tens of thousands of people make their living in this industry but you make it about the biggest of the big race owners. Do you have any evidence to support your theory that the racing industry is in massive decline? Sure there is some declining revenue. Both most forms of entertainment are declining in this day and age. Look at movie and network TV revenue. The industry has actually grown significantly in the past 10 years. It appears all the evidence I put forward that the industry produces more wealth than it takes for the slots are just ignored by ideologues who probably could care less about the welfare of rural Ontario, they don't vote Liberal afterall. Ignorance,my ass... If the horse racing industry was self sustaining it would'nt need to glomb off the hind teat of slot machines at those fables tracks to get people in the door... I remember when Wine Tasting Tim stood out in front of Fort Erie Race Track with one of those HUUUUUGGGGGEEEEE signs trumpeting how the "synergy" of slots at the race track AND horse racing woould be mutually beneficial... Guess what? It ain't! It's time for the well heeled folks running "The Sport of Kings" to step and save their blessed industry on their own... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted March 29, 2012 Report Posted March 29, 2012 The price of hydro is increasing partly because much of the current equipment is out of date and needs to be replaced. It's also because of the debt incurred when Harris split up Hydro One into five companies. Ooops....Mike The Knife to the rescue again!!! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Boges Posted March 29, 2012 Report Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Ignorance,my ass... If the horse racing industry was self sustaining it would'nt need to glomb off the hind teat of slot machines at those fables tracks to get people in the door... I remember when Wine Tasting Tim stood out in front of Fort Erie Race Track with one of those HUUUUUGGGGGEEEEE signs trumpeting how the "synergy" of slots at the race track AND horse racing woould be mutually beneficial... Guess what? It ain't! It's time for the well heeled folks running "The Sport of Kings" to step and save their blessed industry on their own... You don't read posts before you reply do you? "well-heeled folks" You think there the ones that care about this? There the ones that'll bail on the industry because it's not worth their investment and private sector jobs will go with it. And do you not believe that the industry pumps $1.1 billion plus into the provincial coffers or are you just ignoring that fact because it doesn't suite your incorrect opinion? Edited March 29, 2012 by Boges Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 29, 2012 Report Posted March 29, 2012 You don't read posts before you reply do you? "well-heeled folks" You think there the ones that care about this? There the ones that'll bail on the industry because it's not worth their investment and private sector jobs will go with it. And do you not believe that the industry pumps $1.1 billion plus into the provincial coffers or are you just ignoring that fact because it doesn't suite your incorrect opinion? It is'nt worth it anymore... No one goes to the track for horse racing anymore except degenerate gamblers... And your "$1.1 billion plus into provincial coffers" is more than likely because this dying industry is ,in a large part, being subsidized by other degenerate gamblers who are at the track for slot machines and nothing else... Your wonderful horse racing industry can't stand on its own anymore and it's downsizing because of it...If those in the industry want to make it work,let them market it to the point that 10's of thousands of people want to go...Otherwise,they need to know their role... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Boges Posted March 29, 2012 Report Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) It is'nt worth it anymore... No one goes to the track for horse racing anymore except degenerate gamblers... And your "$1.1 billion plus into provincial coffers" is more than likely because this dying industry is ,in a large part, being subsidized by other degenerate gamblers who are at the track for slot machines and nothing else... Your wonderful horse racing industry can't stand on its own anymore and it's downsizing because of it...If those in the industry want to make it work,let them market it to the point that 10's of thousands of people want to go...Otherwise,they need to know their role... The entire OLG is subsidized by degenerate gamblers. And their new OLG plan is attempting to create more of them. BTW where's your evidence in the "massive" drop in interest in horse racing. In that evidence you would have include a decline in Off Track Wagering and the fact people can bet on horse racing on their computer and at home. You're exposing your ignorance on how the system works. The slot-revenue sharing program provides an incentive for owners to invest in breeding, hiring trainers, and many other things that therefore goes into assisting the agricultural sector. Horse racing is the provinces second largest agricultural sector. Ontario's system is the envy North America because of this program. For every dollar the OLG give the industry it gets back four. There's no guarantee these "well-heeled" people that can afford to buy racehorses will get a massive payout, but that carrot keeps people investing and keeps many people employed. So yes the industry will survive the closure of this program because there still is interest in horse racing, especially at world-class tracks like Mohawk and Woodbine, but it won't create anywhere near the wealth for the province as it did before. It's the type of short-sighted nature of this government that will ultimately ruin Ontario. Edited March 29, 2012 by Boges Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 29, 2012 Report Posted March 29, 2012 The entire OLG is subsidized by degenerate gamblers. And their new OLG plan is attempting to create more of them. BTW where's your evidence in the "massive" drop in interest in horse racing. In that evidence you would have include a decline in Off Track Wagering and the fact people can bet on horse racing on their computer and at home. You're exposing your ignorance on how the system works. The slot-revenue sharing program provides an incentive for owners to invest in breeding, hiring trainers, and many other things that therefore goes into assisting the agricultural sector. Horse racing is the provinces second largest agricultural sector. Ontario's system is the envy North America because of this program. For every dollar the OLG give the industry it gets back four. There's no guarantee these "well-heeled" people that can afford to buy racehorses will get a massive payout, but that carrot keeps people investing and keeps many people employed. So yes the industry will survive the closure of this program because there still is interest in the industry but it won't create anywhere near the wealth for the province as it did before. It's the type of short-sighted nature of this government that will ultimately ruin Ontario. Well,wait a minute... You cryptically intimated that losing horse racing revenue would kill $1.1 billion ...If we are talking about OLG completely,then that's a different matter... However,you call it incentivizing...I call it subsidizing...The horse racing industry would simply not be as large as it is now if it was'nt for the fact that slot machines at racetracks have kept it alive... It is up to your blessed horse racing industry to survive on its own and not the other way around... Your protestations,notwithstanding... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Boges Posted March 29, 2012 Report Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Well,wait a minute... You cryptically intimated that losing horse racing revenue would kill $1.1 billion ...If we are talking about OLG completely,then that's a different matter... However,you call it incentivizing...I call it subsidizing...The horse racing industry would simply not be as large as it is now if it was'nt for the fact that slot machines at racetracks have kept it alive... It is up to your blessed horse racing industry to survive on its own and not the other way around... Your protestations,notwithstanding... And without that program those slots wouldn't be in racetracks in the first place, the government had to bribe the owners and horsemen. So perhaps they shouldn't have used that influx of cash to better the industry, should some idiotic premier come by and go back on the deal. I think the Ontario government could care less they have to close slots at tracks like Hanover or Clinton. But do you think they'll play hardball with Georgian Downs, Ajax, Sudbury and Woodbine? They'll need to give the track-owners a Vig to keep those slots there. And we'll also see what happens with the NDP. The NDP have come out against the OLG plan, so will they back up their talk and force the Liberals to back-off on their stance a bit? We'll see. Edited March 29, 2012 by Boges Quote
jacee Posted March 29, 2012 Report Posted March 29, 2012 For every dollar the OLG give the industry it gets back four. That's good information, Boges. Can you provide a source for that? As much as I care about the horseracing industry, however, it seems to be distracting from more critical issues raised by the budget. Perhaps that's its purpose. Quote
Boges Posted March 30, 2012 Report Posted March 30, 2012 That's good information, Boges. Can you provide a source for that? As much as I care about the horseracing industry, however, it seems to be distracting from more critical issues raised by the budget. Perhaps that's its purpose. http://www.value4money.ca. Lots of information there about the value of horse racing. Quote
MiddleClassCentrist Posted March 30, 2012 Report Posted March 30, 2012 http://www.value4money.ca. Lots of information there about the value of horse racing. Wow, they developed a propaganda webpage for themselves... I guess they realise that their business model is dead. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Jack Weber Posted March 30, 2012 Report Posted March 30, 2012 Wow, they developed a propaganda webpage for themselves... I guess they realise that their business model is dead. Pretty much... Frank Stronach and Ernie Samuels now have a webpage!!! Pony up (pun intended) or get lost... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Boges Posted March 30, 2012 Report Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Apparently even a Liberal report supports the Horse racing job claims. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2012/03/30/wdr-horse-racing-reoprt-disputes.html Edited March 30, 2012 by Boges Quote
Boges Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 NDP is making some pretty significant demands to avoid an election http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-conditions-on-ontario-budget-include-tax-hike-for-highest-earners/article2390643/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Politics&utm_content=2390643 Ms. Horwath has come up with a proposal designed to get around the fact that the Premier has “drawn a line in the sand.” Having Ontarians in the highest income brackets – those who earn more than $500,000 a year – pay higher taxes would raise more than enough money to pay for the three demands she outlined on Tuesday: * Removing the provincial portion of the harmonized sales tax from home-heating bills, a measure that would cost $350-million a year. * Providing $50-million in funding to support more than 4,000 child-care spaces. * Provide those living on disability with additional annual funding of $40-million. Increasing the tax rate for high-income earners by 2 percentage points to 13.16 per cent would raise $570-million a year, according to the New Democrats’ calculations. Remember right after the election the PCs and NDP voted to getting rid of the provincial portion of the HST on home heating and the Liberals refused. Will they do so again. Quote
MiddleClassCentrist Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) NDP is making some pretty significant demands to avoid an election http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-conditions-on-ontario-budget-include-tax-hike-for-highest-earners/article2390643/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Politics&utm_content=2390643 Remember right after the election the PCs and NDP voted to getting rid of the provincial portion of the HST on home heating and the Liberals refused. Will they do so again. I think it is silly but, along the NDP lines, to ask for increased taxes to fund additional programs. How about just asking to ensure that the wealthy are assisting? Like using the tax money against the deficit entirely... Let's not create new problems when we still have a large one to solve. Ontarians would vote out McGuinty if they were given a good horse to bet on. (For you Boges ) Edited April 3, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Jack Weber Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 I think it is silly but, along the NDP lines, to ask for increased taxes to fund additional programs. How about just asking to ensure that the wealthy are assisting? Like using the tax money against the deficit entirely... Let's not create new problems when we still have a large one to solve. Ontarians would vote out McGuinty if they were given a good horse to bet on. (For you Boges ) I wonder who Frank and Ernie are betting on? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
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