Guest Manny Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Soccer isn't needed, we already have national sports. As long as they distract the public interest, they work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Soccer isn't needed, we already have national sports. As long as they distract the public interest, they work well. Believe it or not, but one can follow a national sport, and still follow the so-called public interest. It's not an either or. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manny Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 What I mean is, soccer and other sports are an important device in bringing nationalism into play. Like the movie Invictus. A nation with a sports team finds its nationalistic hostility satisfied through sports. Without it, war is a convenient next option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Soccer isn't needed, we already have national sports. As long as they distract the public interest, they work well. this is probably a huge leap of logic for you but there are many millions of canadians who don't follow hockey and could care less who wins what, every sport has it's following...when you come down from your delusional hockey fantasy you may want to check participation statistics, Soccer leads all team sports in Canada with approximately 300,000 more active participants than hockey, so maybe it's hockey we don't need as a national sport since soccer is now the largest... Edited July 7, 2012 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 What I mean is, soccer and other sports are an important device in bringing nationalism into play. Like the movie Invictus. A nation with a sports team finds its nationalistic hostility satisfied through sports. Without it, war is a convenient next option. fans are fickle, they'll follow which ever team/individual is winning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) this is probably a huge leap of logic for you but there are many millions of canadians who don't follow hockey and could care less who wins what, every sport has it's following...when you come down from your delusional hockey fantasy you may want to check participation statistics, Soccer leads all team sports in Canada with approximately 300,000 more active participants than hockey, so maybe it's hockey we don't need as a national sport since soccer is now the largest... I dont think anyone can quibble with the popularity of soccer on our shores. And no one denies the huge particapation numbers , but one certainly can explain a lot of that. One, field vs rink. Two , Cost to start Three, equipment cost Four ongoing costs during sports year. But, one only need to look at viewership ratings to see that soccer , on its best day,gets maybe at best 1 to 4 and can soar to 8:1 in favour of hockey. Our national sport wont change for quite some time, if ever. Edited July 9, 2012 by guyser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 this is probably a huge leap of logic for you but there are many millions of canadians who don't follow hockey and could care less who wins what, every sport has it's following...when you come down from your delusional hockey fantasy you may want to check participation statistics, Soccer leads all team sports in Canada with approximately 300,000 more active participants than hockey, so maybe it's hockey we don't need as a national sport since soccer is now the largest... Soccer leads team sports because it's easy and cheap. The equipment for football and hockey is enormous. And you have to actually be coordinated enough to hit and catch the ball in baseball. Soccer? All you have to do is run around a little, and stand in place a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I dont think anyone can quibble with the popularity of soccer on our shores. And no one denies the huge particapation numbers , but one certainly can explain a lot of that. One, field vs rink. Two , Cost to start Three, equipment cost Four ongoing costs during sports year. your info as to of the costs requirements of soccer are out of date by at least 20yrs...you base your biases on skewed idea of what you think soccer is about not anything factual... "fields" are more far expensive then you assume, prime real estate value alone is enormous it far exceeds that of rink property in in quantity and area...kids play on "fields/pastures" top level adults require well maintained "pitches" that are engineered for drainage and irrigation...there is as much difference between a field "pasture" and a quality pitch as there is pond and an indoor rink... cost to start, it didn't cost me much to start wyly jr in hockey, used equipment wasn't a deterrent...what my brother paid to keep his son in hockey per year was comparable to what paid out every year for my daughter in soccer... on going costs-soccer has become a year round sport, many regions of Canada play the "rink" game and others play futsal and others play a small sided outdoor game in dedicated indoor facilities, and others play a full outdoor game indoors...so extensive outdoor and indoor costs in multimillion dollar facilities that... But, one only need to look at viewership ratings to see that soccer , on its best day,gets maybe at best 1 to 4 and can soar to 8:1 in favour of hockey.oh really...the the 2010 FIFA World Cup final had a Canadian audience of 5.82 million(with no canadian team involved) so with your estimations 24 million (4 to 1)canadians must have been watching the Stanley cup final of 2010 or as many as 48 million (8 to 1)Canadians viewing, that's awesome for a country of 34 millon ...the fact is if you had checked viewership and not made wild assumptions you would've discovered 4 million canadians watched the stanley cup final of 2010, almost 2 million less than the WC final with no canadians involved...now go check hockey viewership where canada has already been eliminated from a world championship...and put a competitive/quality team at club level fans will also respond, Montreal has already had fan turnout of 60K, something that will repeat when the league reaches a respectable level of competition...the fans are there all they need is a quality product to encourage them out... Our national sport wont change for quite some time, if ever. as I posted before fans are fickle, they follow winners, if Canada dropped down a division in international competition failing to make the Olympics the fans would disappear...when the BlueJays won the WS everyone in canada was suddenly a baseball fan when they lose where are those fans? hockey is no different.. there are millions of soccer fans in canada "MILLIONS"! unfortunately when our national team is ranked 70 or 90th in the world there isn't a lot of support or reason to cheer, but Canadians have alternate choices, teams related to their heritage, Italy, Portugal, Germany, England etc should Canadian soccer ever reach competitive levels all those Canadians cheering others countries on will flock to Canadian colours... Edited July 9, 2012 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) your info as to of the costs requirements of soccer are out of date by at least 20yrs...you base your biases on skewed idea of what you think soccer is about not anything factual... Ok well lets look at this. "fields" are more far expensive then you assume, prime real estate value alone is enormous it far exceeds that of rink property in in quantity and area...kids play on "fields/pastures" top level adults require well maintained "pitches" that are engineered for drainage and irrigation.. I know I know, prime real estate and the attached taxes and operating costs in the City of Toronto are dirt cheap. Cut the pitch once or twice a week vs scraping the ice every hour or other hour. We only build tiny tiny rinks and no parking at all. Top level Adulthockey players play without drainage, irrigation, just a hose and some cold temps , no boards nothing at all to play. Fact is, both the field and the rink are comparable when one factors in the parking,the dual purpose they all try to achieve these days.(pitch/parking/playground all in one) But one curiosity, perhaps one can shed light on this..... Soccer field rental, Prime, Commercial Adult = $41 Per hour(City of T figures) Hockey rink rental, Prime, Commercial Adult = $300 Per Hour ($88 Outside) .there is as much difference between a field "pasture" and a quality pitch as there is pond and an indoor rink... And guess which one costs far more to build keep and maintain? How much does heat cost on an outdoor pitch? Anything? It costs to heat outdoor hockey arenas, indoor ones too,(below the ice) since they must ensure the ground frost does not heave the whole works. cost to start, it didn't cost me much to start wyly jr in hockey, used equipment wasn't a deterrent...what my brother paid to keep his son in hockey per year was comparable to what paid out every year for my daughter in soccer... Wait a sec, Soccer = shoes, shin guards , mouthpiece is equal to.... Hockey= skates, shin guards,hockey pants,suspenders,garter belt or pants, jock,shoulder pads,helmet, mouthguard,cage,gloves riiiight.... on going costs-soccer has become a year round sport, many regions of Canada play the "rink" game and others play futsal and others play a small sided outdoor game in dedicated indoor facilities, and others play a full outdoor game indoors...so extensive outdoor and indoor costs in multimillion dollar facilities that... and for all that....still cheaper than hockey. oh really...the the 2010 FIFA World Cup final had a Canadian audience of 5.82 million(with no canadian team involved) so with your estimations 24 million (4 to 1)canadians must have been watching the Stanley cup final of 2010 or as many as 48 million (8 to 1)Canadians viewing, that's awesome for a country of 34 millon ...the fact is if you had checked viewership and not made wild assumptions you would've discovered 4 million canadians watched the stanley cup final of 2010, almost 2 million less than the WC final with no canadians involved...now go check hockey viewership where canada has already been eliminated from a world championship... TSN reports an avg viewership of 3.04 M watched Spain defeat Italy.(2.57 on TV, otrhers on RDS) TSN Gold Medal Hockey Game avg viewership 16.6M (peak at 26.5M viewers) Still want to roll your eyes or just do the math? Hockey outstrips soccer by anywhere of 4-1 to 8-1 . (as an aside, TSN gets 5.3M for the World Jr Hockey Finals.) as I posted before fans are fickle, they follow winners, if Canada dropped down a division in international competition failing to make the Olympics the fans would disappear Not going to happen. there are millions of soccer fans in canada "MILLIONS"! unfortunately when our national team is ranked 70 or 90th in the world there isn't a lot of support or reason to cheer, but Canadians have alternate choices, teams related to their heritage, Italy, Portugal, Germany, England etc should Canadian soccer ever reach competitive levels all those Canadians cheering others countries on will flock to Canadian colours... "Millions"...ok....are there more hockey fans or soccer fans? ETA, not to mention, compressors,chlorine solutions,chill pipes, boards, glass , Edited July 9, 2012 by guyser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Ok well lets look at this. I know I know, prime real estate and the attached taxes and operating costs in the City of Toronto are dirt cheap. Cut the pitch once or twice a week vs scraping the ice every hour or other hour. We only build tiny tiny rinks and no parking at all. Top level Adulthockey players play without drainage, irrigation, just a hose and some cold temps , no boards nothing at all to play. Fact is, both the field and the rink are comparable when one factors in the parking,the dual purpose they all try to achieve these days.(pitch/parking/playground all in one) But one curiosity, perhaps one can shed light on this..... Soccer field rental, Prime, Commercial Adult = $41 Per hour(City of T figures) Hockey rink rental, Prime, Commercial Adult = $300 Per Hour ($88 Outside) And guess which one costs far more to build keep and maintain? How much does heat cost on an outdoor pitch? Anything? It costs to heat outdoor hockey arenas, indoor ones too,(below the ice) since they must ensure the ground frost does not heave the whole works. :lol: nice avoidance of soccers indoor expenses it's now a 12 month a year game unlike hockey...how much does it cost to heat an indoor facility to room t-shirt warmth, considerably more than the bone chilling temps of a hockey arena...hockey teams have 30% larger teams to defray costs vs indoor squads, indoor where depending on facility rents are pushing $300...Wait a sec,Soccer = shoes, shin guards , mouthpiece is equal to.... Hockey= skates, shin guards,hockey pants,suspenders,garter belt or pants, jock,shoulder pads,helmet, mouthguard,cage,gloves riiiight.... riiiiight and the same equipment is worn year, after year, after year, whereas I would have as many as 4 pair ($400-800)of footwear(training and game) to replace every two years on average but you're sports genius and you were aware that different field conditions(hard or soft, short grass or long wet or dry) and and indoor(hardwood, plastic, carpet or artificial turf) can all require specific footwear and you were just pretending to be dumb correct?TSN reports an avg viewership of 3.04 M watched Spain defeat Italy.(2.57 on TV, otrhers on RDS)TSN Gold Medal Hockey Game avg viewership 16.6M (peak at 26.5M viewers) Still want to roll your eyes or just do the math? Hockey outstrips soccer by anywhere of 4-1 to 8-1 . (as an aside, TSN gets 5.3M for the World Jr Hockey Finals.) :lol: a one time event, the perfect storm that won't happen again until canada hosts another O, it was a patriotic spectacle drawing in people who knew nothing of the sport and will never watch another game their entire life...wanna talk about the 2006 Olympic hockey final no one watched? thought not...if canadians aren't in the final it's a bust, yet even without canadians in soccer WC or the Euro millions tune in...and TSN reported 4.6 million tuned into the Euro final and that doesn't include many other international satellite and web feeds that TSN and RDS have no numbers for ....time to face the truth once canadian hockey teams are eliminated from a competition TV audiences plummet falling behind those of soccer competitions such as the Euro and the WC...Not going to happen. "Millions"...ok....are there more hockey fans or soccer fans? my mom, mrs wyly and mrs wyly's mom watching watching an oylmpic final do not fit the definition of "hockey fan", it was an event bigger than the game itself... time for you to put your hockey stick between your legs and slick off to some dark corner.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manny Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) time for you to put your hockey stick between your legs and slick off to some dark corner.... We can't, cause that's where a bunch of you guys are playin soccer... or somethin... To play our game we need a well- lit, cold room, you know? Places where you guys don't like to go. Which is good, actually... But now thanks to global warming, Hockey could be an endangered species. Well, that's possibly likely... if we are to lose hockey and it gets replaced by "the beautiful sport", it's quite possible. But then, being a real man has become an endangered species as well these days. Edited July 10, 2012 by Manny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 :lol: nice avoidance of soccers indoor expenses it's now a 12 month a year game unlike hockey.. Except Hockey is 12 months a year for many players, elite players and those wanting to be. I kind of figured anyone would know that. Obviously not. .how much does it cost to heat an indoor facility to room t-shirt warmth, considerably more than the bone chilling temps of a hockey arena...hockey teams have 30% larger teams to defray costs vs indoor squads, indoor where depending on facility rents are pushing $300... Any grasping at straws, such as 'more players to defray' is akin to moving the goalposts. Hockey arenas have to be kept cold, and as such, keeping ice is expensive, moreso in the summer. A zamboni is a single use machine, more expensive than a mower which can utilized in other places. riiiiight and the same equipment is worn year, after year, after year, whereas I would have as many as 4 pair ($400-800)of footwear(training and game) to replace every two years on average but you're sports genius and you were aware that different field conditions(hard or soft, short grass or long wet or dry) and and indoor(hardwood, plastic, carpet or artificial turf) can all require specific footwear and you were just pretending to be dumb correct? Not dumb at all, but then again, I know the costs and you are grasping at straws. Equipment for many is not worn year after year, especially when they are young.Even at that, equiping one far exceeds the other. Denying that is playing dumb. DId I mention how much a stick costs? They have come down in price . many are $100 or more, wood on avg $25-$40. Want to guess how many a player goes thru in a season? Want to guess how much a skate sharpening costs? Want to guess how much tape a player goes through? :lol: a one time event, the perfect storm that won't happen again until canada hosts another O, it was a patriotic spectacle drawing in people who knew nothing of the sport and will never watch another game their entire life...wanna talk about the 2006 Olympic hockey final no one watched? thought not...if canadians aren't in the final it's a bust, yet even without canadians in soccer WC or the Euro millions tune in...and TSN reported 4.6 million tuned into the Euro final and that doesn't include many other international satellite and web feeds that TSN and RDS have no numbers for ....time to face the truth once canadian hockey teams are eliminated from a competition TV audiences plummet falling behind those of soccer competitions such as the Euro and the WC... And those ratings you cite .....well, not even close. Grey Cup last year? 4.6M Euro Final this year? 3.0M So Grey Cup outdrew Euro Final. Sorry, them the numbers from TSN TORONTO - Spain's decisive 4-0 victory over Italy in the final of the European soccer championship drew big ratings in Canada, with an average of 3.04 million viewers, TSN announced Tuesday.The broadcaster said 2.57 million viewers watched Sunday afternoon's game on TSN, while 469,000 tuned in on French-language affiliate RDS. Spain's 1-0 win over Germany in the 2008 final drew 1.3 million on TSN and RDS. However, those numbers were recorded before the introduction of a new ratings measurement system. Audience levels for the final broadcast peaked at 3.6 million viewers as Spain went on become the first team ever to repeat as European champion. Overall, 6.6 million viewers watched some or all of the tournament finale. The strong ratings were well short of last year's Grey Cup final, which was watched by an average of 4.6 million viewers on TSN and RDS — and that was considered a down year. However, they were comparable to last month's Stanley Cup final, which saw an average of 2.67 million viewers a game in a series that featured no Canadian teams. http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/soccer/spains-dominant-euro-2012-final-victory-draws-big-ratings-in-canada-161289315.html time for you to put your hockey stick between your legs and slick off to some dark corner.... Not sure why I would do that. It can easily be seen that....1) Hockey surpasses soccer in viewers and 2 ) hockey is far more expensive. I dont know why you argue against the obvious. I really like soccer now, have become a fan over the past couple of Euros and WC , I admire the talent and what they can do with a ball. In fact dont really care that soccer gets lower ratings than a lot of sports, like Curling for instance , people watch what they want to watch. Pull the blinders off , I dont slag soccer anywhere in this thread, just feel its ridiculous to compare costs as being on par or close (or even outstripping hockey costs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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