Jack Weber Posted March 20, 2012 Report Posted March 20, 2012 Jack...you're wiser than this. This isn't that scene from 'Miss Congeniality' where the contestants all wish for World Peace. No,however,one should'nt shrug ones shoulders at a known coup d'etat on a leader who was elected and bent on independence,orchestrated by Belgian mining interests AND the good 'ol US State Department(under the standard guise of stopping Communists)...And has set that particular country back for more than 5 decades and cost millions upon millions of lives... When Mobutu Sese Seko dies,he was one of the 30 richest men in the world...What did Zaire get for the interference that allowed him to come to power,other than poverty and death? There's no pretty way to put that...And there was,in fact,no excuse for it... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted March 20, 2012 Report Posted March 20, 2012 No,however,one should'nt shrug ones shoulders at a known coup d'etat on a leader who was elected and bent on independence,orchestrated by Belgian mining interests AND the good 'ol US State Department(under the standard guise of stopping Communists)...And has set that particular country back for more than 5 decades and cost millions upon millions of lives... That's what votin' is fer. When Mobutu Sese Seko dies,he was one of the 30 richest men in the world...What did Zaire get for the interference that allowed him to come to power,other than poverty and death? They are not children running the show in the Third World and are largely responsible for their own strife. America doesn't go into any region saying: "Why not off a million of your own people, Shiek Yerbootie?" That's more their doing. Remember, guns don't kill people. People kill people. Thanks to video uploads, we now know that a jagged knife or a cement block works just fine. There's no pretty way to put that...And there was,in fact,no excuse for it... Sure, I agree. I'm not going to get all wrist-slitty over it, mind-you. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 That's what votin' is fer. They are not children running the show in the Third World and are largely responsible for their own strife. America doesn't go into any region saying: "Why not off a million of your own people, Shiek Yerbootie?" That's more their doing. Remember, guns don't kill people. People kill people. Thanks to video uploads, we now know that a jagged knife or a cement block works just fine. Sure, I agree. I'm not going to get all wrist-slitty over it, mind-you. Are you suggesting that the people of Zaire voted in Mobutu Sese Seko,and therefore,deserved what they got from him? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 Are you suggesting that the people of Zaire voted in Mobutu Sese Seko,and therefore,deserved what they got from him? It's really up to the people of Zaire to pick their leaders. How they do it is up for grabs. I'd prefer they had elections and women's rights (etc). But, I also want to believe in Santa... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 It's really up to the people of Zaire to pick their leaders. How they do it is up for grabs. I'd prefer they had elections and women's rights (etc). But, I also want to believe in Santa... Here's the beauty of that statement... In 1960,they did just that...Patrice Lamumba...Who was arrested,and executed,and then at the behest of the Belgian mining interests AND the US State Dept....Those same people who democratically elected Mr. Lamumba had one Mobutu Sese Seko intalled as their "Dear Leader"... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 Here's the beauty of that statement... In 1960,they did just that...Patrice Lamumba...Who was arrested,and executed,and then at the behest of the Belgian mining interests AND the US State Dept....Those same people who democratically elected Mr. Lamumba had one Mobutu Sese Seko intalled as their "Dear Leader"... Meh...same show different day for Africa. It boils down to which tribe you're from as to who gets the burning necklace. They don't need our help to kill each other. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Meh...same show different day for Africa. It boils down to which tribe you're from as to who gets the burning necklace. They don't need our help to kill each other. You do understand your "meh" is the very same intransigence people like Dre use in there feelings towards the Middle East issue,right? I assume you would agree that that intransigence is a sort of weak position(Middle East or Africa)? One also would have to wonder what one of the richest countries in the world would look like if it had been allowed to shape its own destiny? Edited March 21, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 You do understand your "meh" is the very same intransigence people like Dre use in there feelings towards the Middle East issue,right? I assume you would agree that that intransigence is a sort of weak position(Middle East or Africa)? One also would have to wonder what one of the richest countries in the world would look like if it had been allowed to shape its own destiny? Damned if we do...damned if we do not. As my wife said to me: Where'd my UNICEF money go? The kid with flies all over had 7 kids. And they all hate the neighbors. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 Damned if we do...damned if we do not. As my wife said to me: Where'd my UNICEF money go? The kid with flies all over had 7 kids. And they all hate the neighbors. The UNICEF money went into the pockets of people like Mobutu Sese Seko... I would talk to the US State Dept. or the Belgian Embassy because they are the enablers of the theft that took place! I wonder if UNICEF would have been needed/still needed in Zaire/DRC if Patrice Lamumba had been allowed to live? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 The UNICEF money went into the pockets of people like Mobutu Sese Seko... I would talk to the US State Dept. or the Belgian Embassy because they are the enablers of the theft that took place! I wonder if UNICEF would have been needed/still needed in Zaire/DRC if Patrice Lamumba had been allowed to live? Belgium has a horrible colonial history. Not yer Pax Britania by any means. But, I'm not taking the fall for Belgium anymore than I would for slavery. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 Belgium has a horrible colonial history. Not yer Pax Britania by any means. But, I'm not taking the fall for Belgium anymore than I would for slavery. Belgium has a horrible colonial history...True... But why would the US State Dept. also enabled the UNICEF theft of your wife's money... I wonder why? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 Belgium has a horrible colonial history...True... But why would the US State Dept. also enabled the UNICEF theft of your wife's money... I wonder why? Enabled. Such a deflection of responsibility. By the same token one could say UNICEF enables murderous dictators. But, I doubt that's their objective any more than its America's to see despots slaughter their own. We are all captains of our own ships. No money is stolen without a thief. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 Enabled. Such a deflection of responsibility. By the same token one could say UNICEF enables murderous dictators. But, I doubt that's their objective any more than its America's to see despots slaughter their own. We are all captains of our own ships. No money is stolen without a thief. The US State Dept. certainly did enable the intallation of Col. Mobutu...The guy who took the UNICEF money... How did he become one of the 30 richest men in the world anyway? I don't disagree that the US didn't/doesn't want to see despots slaughter their own...They just could'nt be bothered to stop them because,ya'know,they were killing "communists"... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Guest American Woman Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 Enabled. Such a deflection of responsibility. By the same token one could say UNICEF enables murderous dictators. But, I doubt that's their objective any more than its America's to see despots slaughter their own. We are all captains of our own ships. No money is stolen without a thief. Well said. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Well said. I'm sure you're well versed in the declassified documents that indicate both Eisenhower and Allan Dulles openly wanted Lamumba "eliminated"? Belgian mining concern Union Miniere? Edited March 21, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted March 21, 2012 Report Posted March 21, 2012 I'm sure you're well versed in the declassified documents that indicate both Eisenhower and Allan Dulles openly wanted Lamumba "eliminated"? Belgian mining concern Union Miniere? The younger Dulles was what one would term a 'prick'. Perhaps from having McCarthy question his agency's loyalty to the Government. Who knows? Either way, he was responsible for the CIA's cowboy-like ways pre-Bush Sr. Ike wasn't all bad. At least he had the world in context where others lived in lala land. Tough job in a very dangerous time. H-Bombs, Iron Curtains, Bamboo Curtains...the planet was going to Hell quickly. The Congo Crisis was just one of many fires burning. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest American Woman Posted March 23, 2012 Report Posted March 23, 2012 U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales was charged on Friday with 17 counts of premeditated murder, a capital offense that could lead to the death penalty in the massacre of Afghan civilians, the U.S. military said. link I'm surprised at the "premeditated" charge - I thought it sounded more as if he had just snapped. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 23, 2012 Report Posted March 23, 2012 Harper is definitely way to the Right of Americans on the Left. He's your Bush Either you know how absurd this statement is or you're completely clueless about Canadian politics. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 23, 2012 Report Posted March 23, 2012 Either you know how absurd this statement is or you're completely clueless about Canadian politics. Actually I agree with AW for the most part on that one. Quote
j44 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Posted March 24, 2012 I'm surprised at the "premeditated" charge - I thought it sounded more as if he had just snapped. I don't know much (or anything) about military law/justice but I'd guess that 'premeditated' justifies the death penalty. The death penalty being something that can at least partly appease the Afghans. I don't doubt for a second that he just snapped and that it was not premeditated but that is just the politics of it. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted March 24, 2012 Report Posted March 24, 2012 I don't know much (or anything) about military law/justice but I'd guess that 'premeditated' justifies the death penalty. The death penalty being something that can at least partly appease the Afghans. I don't doubt for a second that he just snapped and that it was not premeditated but that is just the politics of it. You're likely right. Not that I think he will get the death penalty, but just the possibility with such a charge is something that might help appease the Afghans; the hope might be that it will help calm things down a bit until time has dulled emotions a bit. It may be a play for time. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 26, 2012 Report Posted March 26, 2012 Actually I agree with AW for the most part on that one. Of course you do, because you buy into his villification. The far-left in this country paint him as Bush Light, bent on making Canada another US state. In reality, that couldn't be further from the truth. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Posted March 26, 2012 Of course you do, because you buy into his villification. The far-left in this country paint him as Bush Light, bent on making Canada another US state. In reality, that couldn't be further from the truth. That's right, because despite the size of any such bogeyman invented by Canadians "far-left" or otherwise, Canada can't become another US state. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Manny Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Here is where the real war is being fought, the war of ideology. Taliban tightens grip on Afghan schools The power to teach young people what to think and believe is the most important, because it sets the path for the future. And in this regard we are failing badly, because the troops went in as enemy invaders and killed a lot of people, non-combatants and we all made excuses, like sorry it was necessary to predator drone blow up your house without knowing who was in it, for the chance to kill Mullah Omar. Well guess what, these people like Mullah Omar better than they like us. And now that the war is winding down and we are making overtures to appease the Taliban, by releasing prisoners, we've conceded that. The short term mission to uproot the Taliban from power, has failed. The long term objective to make Afghanistan and the Middle East more friendly/ cooperative to western thinking, has failed. Little girls will not be going to school. And may I point out, it does not please me but I'm upset, because a lot of people knew this wouldn't work but some others insisted it was good, good for Afghanistan and good for us. It proves who was right. There should have been other ways to achieve these goals. Military power is becoming obsolete, it achieves little of lasting value in cases like this and is grossly inefficient. A terrible waste of lives and resources. Quote
GostHacked Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Of course you do, because you buy into his villification. The far-left in this country paint him as Bush Light, bent on making Canada another US state. Through globalism and other means, Canada IS becoming more like the US. It's the whole air of conservatism that Harper is supposed to exude. That is the similarities to Bush. Claimed to be a conservative but the money spent goes completely against it. In reality, that couldn't be further from the truth. And it's closer to the truth than you imagine. Why do you see so many laws passed in Canada are quite similar to the USA make their way up here? Why do you think NAFTA, SPP and bills like SOPA PIPA CISPA exist? Why is our police getting militarized like the counterparts in the USA? Why do we have the warrant-less wiretapping laws now? Why is both governments getting more closed while asking people to be open? Why are both country's natural resources getting sold off to foreign entities? When you look at it, the similarities are too numerous to ignore. Quote
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