waldo Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 The jury's still out as to Tory guilt. Misleading calls followed identification as non-Tories --- Pattern of calls points to party's voter identification database An investigation by CBC News has turned up voters all over Canada who say the reason they got robocalls sending them to fictitious polling stations was that they'd revealed they would not vote Conservative.It is only now emerging that calls impersonating Elections Canada followed previous calls by Conservative workers asking which way voters were leaning. That suggests that the "Elections Canada" calls, which are illegal, came from people with access to data gathered by the Conservative Party, which carefully controls access to it. Asked about that, party spokesman Fred Delorey had no comment and declined an interview Looks like the CBC is in competition with Maher and McGregor for a scoop. it would appear your booster club manual advises to ignore, to not comment on the linked article's findings and implications, while at the same time dissing the article as nothing more than a journalistic competition. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 16, 2012 Author Report Posted March 16, 2012 It gets worse for the Conservatives. Former Tory MP had misgivings about voter ID system[inky Mark] says the party had control over the entire, nationwide database. An MP and his staff were at the mercy of headquarters, Mark says, because they had the power to allocate and revoke database passwords. Quote
Vendetta Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 Suggests Harper himself is quite worried about what might have been happening under his nose. I think you mean "happening under his direction." Quote
waldo Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 Everyone involved in politics knows about CIMS, how it works, what information it contains, and the database's potential. People have already said that the Conservatives have the best voter information database because it not only contains information on their supporters, but that has been combined with constituency voter info. CIMS has been attributed to the CPC's ability to raise so much money as well. There database is quite simply more advanced than the ones used by the other parties. If any voter suppression were to take place, this system would make it incredibly easy and it is fully controlled by the central party, as the Electoral District Agreement here shows.http://cpccims.ca/forms/CIMS%20EDA%20Agreement%20Form.pdf ah yes, the much vaunted CIMS - Conservatives' Constituency Information Management System... Conservatives use a single clearing house for all data collection, storage, data mining, mailing lists, voter tracking and any other partisan use such information may serve. CIMS is used not only to track voter allegiance in a given riding -- something every political party attempts -- but also a host of other data gathered in the course of an MP's constituency office duties. Logging constituent files in a central party database that may also be used as part of election planning, fundraising, advertising strategy and policy deliberation appears to be clearly offside, two nationally respected privacy experts told The Canadian Press. "If somebody contacts their MP because they're having a problem with their CPP benefit or their military pension, they don't expect to end up on a mailing list for a political party,'' said David Fraser, a Halifax lawyer who specializes in privacy issues with the firm McInnes Cooper. "If they are going to end up on a mailing list, I think there's an ethical obligation to inform them and give them the opportunity to opt out.'' Michael Geist, a law professor who serves as the Canada research chair of Internet and e-commerce law at the University of Ottawa, agrees. "When you're going to your local MP with a concern or a problem, there is a certain level of confidentiality,'' said Geist. "The notion that it's simply a data point that gets used to characterize the particular constituent could have a bit of a chilling effect." for weeks on end, in and out of Parliament, Harper Conservative Dean Del Maestro repeated with the utmost banality, over and over again, that all Conservative voter contact pursuits were legitimately aimed at simply "getting their vote out... to identify polling station location changes". But hey now! Elections Canada told parties not to call voters with polling station locations The Conservative party asked for the location of all polling stations and then contacted voters about where to find them during last year's federal campaign, despite a request they not do so by Elections Canada for fear of muddying the election-day waters. Elections Canada confirms the Conservative party requested a list of all polling stations before the federal vote last May 2, and that as a result the elections watchdog provided the list to all parties. In its statutory report following the 2011 campaign, released last August, Elections Canada highlighted the incident in a separate box. "Because a polling site can be replaced by another at the last minute, and to ensure that electors always have access to the most accurate information regarding their location, Elections Canada indicated to political parties that the list supplied should only be used for internal purposes and that parties should not direct electors to polling sites," said the report. All parties were instructed to tell voters to check Elections Canada's website or their voter information card for poll locations "to prevent electors from being directed to incorrect polling sites." Quote
PIK Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) ... Edited March 16, 2012 by PIK Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
madmax Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 Looks like the CBC is in competition with Maher and McGregor for a scoop. Most accurate post yet... Quote
Topaz Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 I'm glad the media is on this, the more the merrier and lets to the whole truth. In the house today, the NDP asked the Tories if they would be willing to let some from EC, I think, to come and update the committee on this, and Van Loan said that was up to the committee, which is powered by the Tories. What the NDP is saying that the finger of guilt is pointing to the Tories and then Del Mastro and Pierre, went after the NDP and Libs and talked about the smearing. It's NOT smearing if its the truth. The NDP and the Libs are calling for a Public Inquiry and the Tories say we don't need one, ehich means THEY don't want one. The public NEEDS to get behind the NDP, Liberals and get EC to call for one, so there's no doubt to who IS behind this. The more the Tories resist, the more they are guilty. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/15/pol-investigation-.html Quote
capricorn Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 In the house today, the NDP asked the Tories if they would be willing to let some from EC, I think, to come and update the committee on this, and Van Loan said that was up to the committee, which is powered by the Tories. It's a smart move by the Conservatives to show they are confident Elections Canada will get to the bottom of this matter. The Committee will probably invite Mayrand to appear following the House's one week break. The public NEEDS to get behind the NDP, Liberals and get EC to call for one, so there's no doubt to who IS behind this. Elections Canada does not have the authority to call a public inquiry. The more the Tories resist, the more they are guilty. Falsely accused Canadians offer resistance all the time. That doesn't mean they are guilty of the charges. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
g_bambino Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) It's NOT smearing if its the truth. Has anyone, especially the Liberals and NDP making the smears, been able to definitively prove what they're saying to be true? If so, I must have missed it (though, admittedly, I'm not much following this non-story). The NDP and the Libs are calling for a Public Inquiry and the Tories say we don't need one, ehich means THEY don't want one. That is, of course, your interpretation. One could also argue that there's no need for one until the need for one has been established, and that won't happen at least until Elections Canada has completed its investigation. The public NEEDS to get behind the NDP, Liberals and get EC to call for one... Elections Canada cannot call royal commissions or public inquiries. [ed.: sp] Edited March 16, 2012 by g_bambino Quote
WWWTT Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 Falsely accused Canadians offer resistance all the time. That doesn't mean they are guilty of the charges. Who's bein charged? Aswell any acusation or claim can be made in the lower house,the lower house does not have to abide by the same rules as a provincial/federal court. Another side note would be that we are all innocent until proven guilty-only in a court of law! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
scribblet Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 Good news, sorta http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/16/john-ivison-pierre-poutine-called-voters-in-ridings-across-ontario-not-just-guelph/ A CBC Television story Thursday suggested misdirection calls were recorded coast-to-coast and interviewed people who said they received calls sending them to the wrong polling station. Yet only one person from outside Ontario said the call was a robocall claiming to come from Elections Canada. The rest were either live calls or came from the Conservative Party. There were 20,000 voting locations in last year’s election — 127 of which were moved during the campaign — so thousands of Canadians received legitimate calls from political parties alerting them to the move. Elections Canada revealed Thursday that over 700 Canadians from across the country have contacted them because they suspected “wrong-doing.” In his press release, the chief electoral officer, Marc Mayrand, urged Canadians to be “cautious about drawing conclusions based on possibly inaccurate and incomplete information.” The facts remain rarer than hen’s teeth but the news that the Pierre Poutine call was sent out across Ontario suggests the extent of the wrong-doing was more limited than some of the coverage would have us believe. Meanwhile, the search for Mr. Poutine goes on. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
CPCFTW Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 Who's bein charged? Aswell any acusation or claim can be made in the lower house,the lower house does not have to abide by the same rules as a provincial/federal court. Another side note would be that we are all innocent until proven guilty-only in a court of law! WWWTT I think you're a kitten-eating child molester!!! I call for a public inquiry into all your phone records and internet browsing history, along with a search of your home. You better not resist!! The more you resist, the more guilty you are!! Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 I think you're a kitten-eating child molester!!! I call for a public inquiry into all your phone records and internet browsing history, along with a search of your home. You better not resist!! The more you resist, the more guilty you are!! Vic Toews wants to do it for you... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
WWWTT Posted March 16, 2012 Report Posted March 16, 2012 I think you're a kitten-eating child molester!!! I call for a public inquiry into all your phone records and internet browsing history, along with a search of your home. You better not resist!! The more you resist, the more guilty you are!! HAHA thats freekin funny man! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
cybercoma Posted March 16, 2012 Author Report Posted March 16, 2012 This is a cute new approach. Now we'll spin the message that it was a small isolated incident. Sona himself won't take the fall, so time to change gears again. Quote
madmax Posted March 17, 2012 Report Posted March 17, 2012 I think you're a kitten-eating child molester!!! I call for a public inquiry into all your phone records and internet browsing history, along with a search of your home. You better not resist!! The more you resist, the more guilty you are!! No need for a public inquiry.. We have Vic Toews... Sad sad sad.. Quote
madmax Posted March 17, 2012 Report Posted March 17, 2012 Vic Toews wants to do it for you... DANG IT!!! oh well.. you beat me too it.. I should have read to the end .... nah.. i am glad we can laugh and agree on something lol.. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 17, 2012 Report Posted March 17, 2012 DANG IT!!! oh well.. you beat me too it.. I should have read to the end .... nah.. i am glad we can laugh and agree on something lol.. You'd be surprised on how much we might agree on...Or disagree on... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
UofGPolitico Posted March 17, 2012 Report Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Good news, sorta http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/16/john-ivison-pierre-poutine-called-voters-in-ridings-across-ontario-not-just-guelph/ A CBC Television story Thursday suggested misdirection calls were recorded coast-to-coast and interviewed people who said they received calls sending them to the wrong polling station. Yet only one person from outside Ontario said the call was a robocall claiming to come from Elections Canada. The rest were either live calls or came from the Conservative Party. There were 20,000 voting locations in last year’s election — 127 of which were moved during the campaign — so thousands of Canadians received legitimate calls from political parties alerting them to the move. Elections Canada revealed Thursday that over 700 Canadians from across the country have contacted them because they suspected “wrong-doing.” In his press release, the chief electoral officer, Marc Mayrand, urged Canadians to be “cautious about drawing conclusions based on possibly inaccurate and incomplete information.” The facts remain rarer than hen’s teeth but the news that the Pierre Poutine call was sent out across Ontario suggests the extent of the wrong-doing was more limited than some of the coverage would have us believe. Meanwhile, the search for Mr. Poutine goes on. I love how John Ivison, who often appears on the CBC, basically has now downplayed Terry's drum beating. Terry is a defacto Liberal, so it makes sense he'd fall for the trap. Edited March 17, 2012 by UofGPolitico Quote
waldo Posted March 17, 2012 Report Posted March 17, 2012 grounds for an effing huge investigation! --- Ian Brodie (Stephen Harper's former chief of staff) The fraudulent calls that misdirected voters across Canada are grounds "for a f—king huge investigation," Stephen Harper's former chief of staff said in an email to a reporter this week. Ian Brodie, who was not involved in the 2011 election campaign, made the comment in an email that was not intended for publication but that was posted online after a misunderstanding. Brodie's comments have a strikingly different tone than the official Conservative talking points, in which any reports of misleading calls beyond Guelph are dismissed as baseless smears by sore losers on the opposition benches. "Something seems to have gone on, on a scale I've never seen before," Brodie wrote to Globe and Mail columnist Lawrence Martin, then joked: "As you may be aware, I am a strong proponent of the death penalty for this sort of thing." Quote
MACKER Posted March 17, 2012 Report Posted March 17, 2012 The rest were either live calls or came from the Conservative Party. There were 20,000 voting locations in last year’s election — 127 of which were moved during the campaign — so thousands of Canadians received legitimate calls from political parties alerting them to the move. FALSE.. elections Canada told the parties NOT to provide poll information so they were not legitimate, they directly were in opposition to an elections Canada directive. Quote
madmax Posted March 17, 2012 Report Posted March 17, 2012 I am not concerned about the moved polling stations..every party and riding delt with those changes so there shouldn't be a special excuse for a party that pretends its elections canada. I am concerned about the imposter pretending to be Elections Canada. And if its tied to the campaign of any political party... then the full weight of the law applied. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 17, 2012 Author Report Posted March 17, 2012 grounds for an effing huge investigation! --- Ian Brodie (Stephen Harper's former chief of staff) Rick Mercer on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/rickmercer/status/180961217161076736 Funny Tories who always told me Brodie was a genius now assure me he knows nothing about politics. #cdnpoli Quote
Shakeyhands Posted March 17, 2012 Report Posted March 17, 2012 Rick Mercer on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/rickmercer/status/180961217161076736 Ha.. now that is funny! Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
capricorn Posted March 17, 2012 Report Posted March 17, 2012 Ian Brodie also made some interesting comments that are not reported in the Globe and Mail article. Brodie said in an email to Martin that the culprit may not have needed to have access to CIMS, because so much information about voters is available from public sources, including Elections Canada, which lists donations."If you gave me an hour, I could cull a list of known Liberal and NDP supporters that added up to more than ten thousand names — using nothing but the Elections Canada website! And if I had a reasonably competent amateur programmer, I could match my list of known supporters to home telephone numbers in a single afternoon. Five cents per name and a few quotes from a few demon dial companies and there you go — a very large calling campaign. http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Robocalls+probe+Pierre+Poutine+made+crank+calls+outside+Guelph/6316233/story.html A list of Liberal and NDP supporters could have been developed from the list of donors publicly available on the Elections Canada site. It was widely speculated that Pierre Poutine had to have access to CIMS to carry out his plan. Maybe that's not the case at all. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
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