The_Squid Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Must be a slow night. Make sure you mention this when someone posts about Muslims being bonkers. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Well your first problem is that you're not me. If you were, maybe you would think that. But you can't be sure because you're not. Me. Right..and you aren't the people in your "OP" either. But you judge them just the same, despite "scripture" telling you not to. I can tell that you get deeply upset when people have moral objections, in general, and so you start bringing up non sequiturs like the Lindbergh baby hoping to jar loose some piece of logic that you can pull at... It was quite logical, challenging your naive shock about commonplace kidnapping crimes in the USA or Canada. But in the end you don't like other people having different morals than you, from what I can tell. I don't have any morals. Are you saying I didn't read the bible, or that my view of what constitutes being Christian is, is incorrect ? Yes, I am saying you are a poser hoping to leverage a false expertise in Christianity and/or the Bible. Luckily, I'm under no obligation to answer to you on this one. ..or any other one. Doesn't mean you can shut me up Mr. Not-A-Moderator. Maybe I do have a superior understanding of Christianity. Does that offend you or make you afraid somehow ? Maybe I don't, but I think I do. Does that anger you ? No, it only confirms what I have long suspected. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Make sure you mention this when someone posts about Muslims being bonkers. You left out Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, etc. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 Right..and you aren't the people in your "OP" either. But you judge them just the same, despite "scripture" telling you not to. I guess I've sinned then. It was quite logical, challenging your naive shock about commonplace kidnapping crimes in the USA or Canada. Ostensibly normal parents paying people to kidnap their children and take them offshore until they're past age of majority... all of this to save them from being gay. Call my shock naive if you like, or maybe you can call it Canadian. I don't have any morals. So don't begrudge others from having them. Anyway objecting to others' judgmentalism shows a certain morality from what I can see. Yes, I am saying you are a poser hoping to leverage a false expertise in Christianity and/or the Bible. Only a jaded intellectual would characterize my disappointment this way. I don't believe Christianity is an intellectual pursuit that can be mastered or that one can become expert in. It's an affair of the heart and of character and of soul. ..or any other one. Doesn't mean you can shut me up Mr. Not-A-Moderator. Why would I want to ? If I did, I'd never get the answer to why someone who claims to have no morals is so concerned with the morals of others. No, it only confirms what I have long suspected. That I have morals ? Well, try not to look down your nose at me for having them. But wait, you can't because you don't have any right ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Judge not lest ye be judged..... Matt 7:2-5 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly with honesty and justice, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other ignoble means, His judgment of us will reflect it and judging with fairness and compassion will garner likewise in His judgment of us]. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye [point out his sins, "minor" in Jesus' example here] and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye [our own sins, even and especially those we will not admit, magnified by our selective blindness]? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' [tell him of his "minor" sins] when all the time there is a plank in your own eye [that there are greater or the same sins in our own lives which we do nothing about or think we are above]? You hypocrite* [pointing out the sins of others while by pretense thinking of ourselves as above sin], first take the plank out of your own eye [sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness and learn and live the Truth and Light by His Word], and then you will see clearly [be in a righteous position] to remove the speck from your brother's eye [to judge and to help him out of his bondage to sin]." At Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan, Jesus was talking to the multitudes gathered there after hearing of His message and of His healings to beseech them to not become like the pharisees and hypocrites who think they are above sin. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) I guess I've sinned then. If that is your belief...then you must repent, sinner! Ostensibly normal parents paying people to kidnap their children and take them offshore until they're past age of majority... all of this to save them from being gay. People kidnap their kids from custodial parents all the time, for far more trivial reasons. Call my shock naive if you like, or maybe you can call it Canadian. No, it has nothing to do with being Canadian, and pretending to not know better because of your nationality is just plain silly. So don't begrudge others from having them. Anyway objecting to others' judgmentalism shows a certain morality from what I can see. No, it is much more straightforward...your "OP" was the height of self admitted smugness and superiority, which I will usually engage with malice and glee. Hence the jugular vein question about abortion, which you recoiled from immediately. Only a jaded intellectual would characterize my disappointment this way. I don't believe Christianity is an intellectual pursuit that can be mastered or that one can become expert in. It's an affair of the heart and of character and of soul. Speak for yourself, not others or their intentions. That I have morals ? Well, try not to look down your nose at me for having them. But wait, you can't because you don't have any right ? I have no soul to worry about. Edited February 15, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 I was psychologically abused for years as a J-Dub, I've seen / heard some pretty shocking things from "Christians" Nothing surprises me anymore Quote
Bob Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Only a jaded intellectual would characterize my disappointment this way. I don't believe Christianity is an intellectual pursuit that can be mastered or that one can become expert in. It's an affair of the heart and of character and of soul. In other words, Christianity is whatever you say it is. bush_cheney2004 - I see you're going after the low-hanging fruit (Michael Hardner). It's just too hard to resist, sometimes. I understand. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again!
kimmy Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 So to sum up... Michael's a leftist poseur for thinking that modern western Christians ought to be above sending their kids to a brainwashing boot-camp? Have I got that right? I would say that if Michael is guilty of anything, it's naivety. Nothing that the true fanatics might do ought to be surprising. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Michael Hardner Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 People kidnap their kids from custodial parents all the time, for far more trivial reasons. This crime is still more difficult to understand than that. No, it has nothing to do with being Canadian, and pretending to not know better because of your nationality is just plain silly. Well, you're making the judgment by calling me naive so I was presuming that your usual Canuck-sniffing was at the heart of your assessment. No, it is much more straightforward...your "OP" was the height of self admitted smugness and superiority, which I will usually engage with malice and glee. Hence the jugular vein question about abortion, which you recoiled from immediately. Calling someone smug and superior is a judgment and a moralization, which should be impossible because you're amoral by your own admission. I admit my sin of casting judgment. Instead I will pity those who commit these crimes. I will however assess them - not judge them - as not being Christians. The abortion question isn't germane to the discussion. Ask away though. Speak for yourself, not others or their intentions. Am I allowed to call you smug and superior though ? I have no soul to worry about. But you have a morality that is apart from religion. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 In other words, Christianity is whatever you say it is. Well, I have a definition of Christianity. I don't define it for everyone but I define it for myself. Other Christians may not consider me as one either, and I can't change that. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 So to sum up... Michael's a leftist poseur for thinking that modern western Christians ought to be above sending their kids to a brainwashing boot-camp? Have I got that right? I would say that if Michael is guilty of anything, it's naivety. Nothing that the true fanatics might do ought to be surprising. -k I thought about this some more and I would characterize my post as an Outrage Post. I'm not usually one to post that way, it's usually right-of-centres who want to screen immigrants because somebody wanted to wear their turban in a legion hall. When I read those types of Outrage posts, I try to empathize or just say nothing because often the cases warrant the response. Other times, I'll point to the fact that the system handles these or I'll point out that these aren't indicators for the group represented at large. I'm not damning Christianity here, but pointing out that there are people out there that aren't (IMO) Christians but are claiming to be. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Shady Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 I'm not damning Christianity here, but pointing out that there are people out there that aren't (IMO) Christians but are claiming to be. I'm stunned. I'm sure everybody else is too. Next you'll tell us that water ca make you wet, and that it usually takes a while for paint to dry. Anyways, once again, great thread. It combines the usual Canadian pseudo-supiority complex, with a tremendous feigning of concern. But don't worry, the anti-Amercan and anti-Christian bigots of the forum will rush to your defense. All over you serious case of the vapors! Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 It combines the usual Canadian pseudo-supiority complex, with a tremendous feigning of concern. But don't worry, the anti-Amercan and anti-Christian bigots of the forum will rush to your defense. All over you serious case of the vapors! I think I've already addressed all of this. Your side gets the vapours if a member of a certain religion does something wrong, my side does the same thing but for different religions. Don't judge me, though, or an amoral moralist will moralize on your morals ! Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Guest Manny Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 I'm guessing the people who would send their kids to this facility are concerned about their spiritual welfare, because those are values they find important. People commit their kids to facilities for a number of reasons, usually to save their lives. Like drug interventions for example. Quote
Guest Manny Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 I looked at the website of Escuale Caribe and it looks like a typical youth rehab organization. I see lots of pictures of smiling teenagers there. And the site indicates that parents can visit any time they want. There are many similar camps here in Canada to help teenagers who are in trouble, whether that be drugs, alcohol, crime, delinquency. Some of them are christian based, some aren't. But often with the drugs/ alcohol they do try to turn people on to a belief in some kind of deity, to help them believe they can get off their addiction. The people who need to attend these things are often very troubled, and can even be violent towards others or themselves. It's not always going to be a nice time. And I don't doubt that all such facilities have some horror stories to tell. For these youth who are in such a state of crisis, it literally is a life or death struggle for them. Mere hugs and encouragement and praise are not enough. In the old days they joined the army, where boot camp meant you were going to get your ass booted. But the vast majority came out as rehabilitated citizens, their demons cast out. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) bush_cheney2004 - I see you're going after the low-hanging fruit (Michael Hardner). It's just too hard to resist, sometimes. I understand. Right...Christianity can most certainly be an academic and intellectual endeavour (not just a spiritual journey), as its history is woven into the foundation of "western" thought and culture. It is rich, complex, and no stranger to violent coercion. Hell, just a generation ago, nuns were kicking ass and taking names in Catholic classrooms; teachers did the same in public schools (corporal punishment). Edited February 15, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 So to sum up... Michael's a leftist poseur for thinking that modern western Christians ought to be above sending their kids to a brainwashing boot-camp? Have I got that right? Yes...the very idea of a "modern western Christian" denies the entire domain of "Christain" culture and practices. I would say that if Michael is guilty of anything, it's naivety. Nothing that the true fanatics might do ought to be surprising. Yep...such has been going on for a long time. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) I admit my sin of casting judgment. Instead I will pity those who commit these crimes. I will however assess them - not judge them - as not being Christians. By George, I think you've got it! The abortion question isn't germane to the discussion. Ask away though. The point of the question was to reveal your selective version of Christianity, just like that of those you would castigate to the depths of Hell. Am I allowed to call you smug and superior though ? Most certainly...I would add arrogant "prick" too. Edited February 15, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 .... Mere hugs and encouragement and praise are not enough. In the old days they joined the army, where boot camp meant you were going to get your ass booted. But the vast majority came out as rehabilitated citizens, their demons cast out. Excellent explanation of "behaviorial therapies" long accepted as appropriate and effective. "Son, you can go to jail for your crime or join the United States Marine Corps". Christ is a drill sergeant. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 Right...Christianity can most certainly be an academic and intellectual endeavour (not just a spiritual journey), as its history is woven into the foundation of "western" thought and culture. Of course. Anything can. It is rich, complex, and no stranger to violent coercion. Hell, just a generation ago, nuns were kicking ass and taking names in Catholic classrooms; teachers did the same in public schools (corporal punishment). Doesn't seems relevant to this discussion though, unless you'd like me to moralize against them too. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 The point of the question was to reveal your selective version of Christianity, just like that of those you would castigate to the depths of Hell. I have fully admitted here that I don't expect others to classify me as I do myself. Everyone is in charge of their own identity. See: "Real Americans". Most certainly...I would add arrogant "prick" too. I see, so I can moralize on some things... I guess if they're the same things you moralize on. Colour me confused but I'll continue. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
olpfan1 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Religion is more harmful than drugs Quote
cybercoma Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Film Website It's really hard to believe that this kind of thing happens in the US in 2012, that people would send their own children to such a place. Christianity has so many warped adherents such as these that it's not surprising that there is bigotry against them. Things like this shouldn't happen today. "At least they don't murder their daughters or behead people." [/conservative_posters] Quote
Shady Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 "At least they don't murder their daughters or behead people." [/conservative_posters] Which conservative poster? Quote
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