Should Canada Accept Gay Refugees?

[dre]

I know you mean well but this is probably a poor observation to be using if you're okay with gay refugees.

Who says gay refugees cant raise families? Theres a shortage of people willing to do the hard work of raising a family... theres no shortage of sperm and eggs.

[eyeball]

Who says gay refugees cant raise families? Theres a shortage of people willing to do the hard work of raising a family... theres no shortage of sperm and eggs.

True, I guess I should have said this is probably a poor observation to be using on someone who's not okay with gay refugees.

My bad.

[cybercoma]

So the entire refugee system is just a feel-good program that only exists to make the government look and feel good and maintain a this "Canadians are nice" image? Great to know how well my tax dollars are used.

It's to save people's lives because it's the right thing to do. If you were one of the persecuted, you would want to have somewhere to escape.

[cybercoma]

Should we Canadians accept more refugees? Why invite more trouble?

That's a fair question, but I want to know why you made it about gays? Your title asks whether Canada should accept a specific type of refugee, not refugees in general.

[cybercoma]

Who says gay refugees cant raise families? Theres a shortage of people willing to do the hard work of raising a family... theres no shortage of sperm and eggs.

Even if they don't, accepting a gay refugee is like someone giving birth to 1 more person... except instead of waiting 18 years for that person to enter the workforce, this one can work immediately.

[August1991]

That's a fair question, but I want to know why you made it about gays? Your title asks whether Canada should accept a specific type of refugee, not refugees in general.

And you ask a fair question too.

In general, gays are not a problem. They are also genuine refugees (in the 21st century modern meaning - not the 1950 UN definition). And since foreign gay guys from Third World countries (or rich, backward Arabian countries) are typically fleeing their families, the gay guys don't sponsor their costly, elderly parents/grandparents.

Gay immigrants make sense now; except that Canada will gain a reputation in the world as a gay country. And then what?

Decades ago, Canada had a good reputation in the world since at the time, we had the courage of our beliefs. Nowadays, I don't know.

Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

Gay immigrants make sense now; except that Canada will gain a reputation in the world as a gay country. And then what?

Decades ago, Canada had a good reputation in the world since at the time, we had the courage of our beliefs. Nowadays, I don't know.

You say "Canada will gain a reputation as a gay country" then in the next sentence "Canada HAD a good reputation...".

You're either moralizing against homosexuality here, or being unclear in your language.

[cybercoma]

Not to mention this refugee happened to be from Korea, yet he's criticizing "backward Arabian" countries. Meanwhile, the Persian nation of Iran says it doesn't have any gays.

It's all very inconsistent.

[Moonlight Graham]

No. Of course not. We don't accept every last person on the planet that's persecuted now.

Exactly.

[August1991]

You say "Canada will gain a reputation as a gay country" then in the next sentence "Canada HAD a good reputation...".

You're either moralizing against homosexuality here, or being unclear in your language.

Do we have the courage of our beliefs nowadays?

Not to mention this refugee happened to be from Korea, yet he's criticizing "backward Arabian" countries. Meanwhile, the Persian nation of Iran says it doesn't have any gays.

Of course, there are no gay men in Persia, Iran or Mecca. [/sarcism] Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991

[cybercoma]

Do we have the courage of our beliefs nowadays?

What beliefs? Courage against what exactly?

[August1991]

What beliefs? Courage against what exactly?

We in the West must defend freedom. An individual should be free to choose. Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

Do we have the courage of our beliefs nowadays?

Are we brave enough to accept refugees who don't have the same rights we guarantee to our own citizens ? Absolutely we are.

[cybercoma]

I'm not sure why this is "brave"

[August1991]

Are we brave enough to accept refugees who don't have the same rights we guarantee to our own citizens ? Absolutely we are.

Huh?

In the 1940s, many Canadians died in Europe. I have walked through the Commonwealth cementeries. Michael Hardner, why are these men buried in Europe? As I walked by a gravestone or two, I have asked myself this question.

Would posters such as you, cybercoma or recent immigrants to Canada take a similar risk to die?

----

What is Canada? Why sacrifice my life?

Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991

[cybercoma]

How many of those dead were gay?

[Bryan]

People who are in genuine need, and in immediate threat of death in their homes countries are clearly in need of compassion, and understanding. Where we are able to help, we should in some capacity.

We already have a lot of people who came here as refugees who routinely go back to the country they supposedly fled from for vacations. The bar to prove that you actually area refugee is already far too low, the last thing we need right now is to lower it even further. That all we need, for the word to get back to the places already playing tricks to get in here: "just tell them that your gay".

The bottom line is, no one should be given automatic refugee status. It should be a very difficult thing to qualify for, and there should never be a 'checklist' that someone can cheat one. It should also be revokable if it's found that you lied.

[cybercoma]

You know what else, I'm willing to bet someone that was saved from death and torture because Canada accepted him/her with open arms would be much more willing to fight and die for this country than someone that was born and raised in this country, spoiled by its gifts.

[cybercoma]

People who are in genuine need, and in immediate threat of death in their homes countries are clearly in need of compassion, and understanding. Where we are able to help, we should in some capacity.

We already have a lot of people who came here as refugees who routinely go back to the country they supposedly fled from for vacations. The bar to prove that you actually area refugee is already far too low, the last thing we need right now is to lower it even further. That all we need, for the word to get back to the places already playing tricks to get in here: "just tell them that your gay".

The bottom line is, no one should be given automatic refugee status. It should be a very difficult thing to qualify for, and there should never be a 'checklist' that someone can cheat one. It should also be revokable if it's found that you lied.

It needs to be expedient enough that we can respond to crises. It can't be very difficult in all cases. There's already a fairly rigorous process one has to go through to get in.

[August1991]

How many of those dead were gay?

God knows.

cybercoma, call me naive, but I think that we in the West have something fundamental to defend, and these men in the 1940s had the courage to defend it.

I fear that too many of us in the West, in this 21st century, have lost our sense of direction.

Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991

[cybercoma]

God knows.

But cybercoma, call me naive, but I think that we in the West have something fundamental to defend, and these men in the 1940s had the courage to defend it.

I fear that too many of us in the West in the 21st century have lost our sense of direction.

I don't at all see how this is relevant to this thread. How exactly do you tie this to persecuted gays? How have we "lost our sense of direction"?

[August1991]

I don't at all see how this is relevant to this thread. How exactly do you tie this to persecuted gays? How have we "lost our sense of direction"?

Gays have not lost direction. It is the West that is confused.

IMHO, gay men are like left-handed people. In a world with ignorant bullies who want to exterminate left-handed people, why invite more left-handed people to your country? It is foolish if you live in a society who has lost courage to confront ignorant bullies.

I fear that we in the West have lost our courage. In the 1940s, we in the West had courage - even if we were foolish.

Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

I fear that we in the West have lost our courage.

Do you think we entered World War II to combat prejudice on some level ?

[August1991]

Do you think we entered World War II to combat prejudice on some level ?

Absolutely.

Battlefieds after the fact? I have been here and there. I have looked over various battles of the Seven Years War and from Ypres to Verdun. Marathon, Thermopylae, Carthage. I have not been to Stalingrad (a tremendous regret) but I walked around Borodino. I have walked the beaches of Normandy, and the US cemetery at Nettuno. I have been to Dieppe several times.

I recently walked on the terrifying fields of Treblinka and years ago, I went to Dachau. I have seen with my own eyes both Auschwitz I and II.

Yes Michael, we Canadians defeated "prejudice on some level". In the 1940s, our men did good. I know this because people in small French towns told me. My grandmother was too proud/discrete to say the same but she lost her first husband because he "did good". Michael, I have spoken to French people, Russian women about this, British, even German women and Dutch.

From 1939 on, our Canadian men in general did good. For young Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders, it is striking to walk in these cemeteries. For young people from Quebec, when they see the family names on the gravestones and understand the consequence, it is a life changing experience.

Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991

[August1991]

We already have a lot of people who came here as refugees who routinely go back to the country they supposedly fled from for vacations.

I suspect that Arab gays out of the closet in Montreal don't go home to Tunis or even Beirut unless the closet door is closed. Bryan, whaddya think? Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991