Super Bowl 46 Playoff Thread

[bush_cheney2004]

...Why anyone associates a team winning the Super Bowl with the QB of that team being great tells us more about the intelligence, or lack there of, of that person rather than whether or not said QB is truly great.

Maybe because the professional players do as well. They don't suffer through mini camps, OTAs, pre-season, 16 games, and the playoffs just to get impressive statistics for fans to google at "FO". They do it for the money....and a shot at winning the league and Super Bowl championship. That's why guys like Bradshaw, Montana, and Aikman matter more than their stats....to the pros and the fans.

[Boges]

Why anyone associates a team winning the Super Bowl with the QB of that team being great tells us more about the intelligence, or lack there of, of that person rather than whether or not said QB is truly great.

If statistics were the most important benchmark for great QB's then where do you put someone like Dan Marino in comparison to Eli?

I never said Eli would have a better legacy than Peyton if he won tomorrow but it would be a lot closer. Especially if Peyton can't re-gain his greatness due to this neck problem he has suffered from this past year.

When you think of the teams Peyton has brought into the playoffs and failed to even make it to the Super Bowl let alone win it.

In the one season Peyton did win a title he benefited from an immense meltdown by the Patriots that year and played a Bears team that had a QB that recently had to fight for a starting job with something called John Beck in Washington.

There has to be intangibles that stats don't show when you consider legacy. Eli might have suffered from some average regular seasons but he's shown to be a terrific playoff QB.

[Boges]

I don't know how you can call this a "fact" when one considers that the Pats played better than the Ravens and the Pats actually won the game.

You seem to forget that the Raven's lost based on missing a FG that would have merely tied the game.

That is hardly evidence that the Raven's were so much better than the Pats.

I never said the Ravens were better. But they came within a Lee Evans drop from winning the game.

Tom Brady even said he played very poorly that game, no wait he said he "sucked". Sure it's more damning to the Ravens that they blew the game and the Giants did need OT and two very bad Special Teams plays to beat the Niners.

As I said the game should be close but I think it's a very good match up for the Giants against the Patriots.

Another factoid I'm sure was mentioned at some point on FO.com; The Ravens were the first team the 2011 Pats beat with a winning (regular season only) record.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Boges

[msj]

If statistics were the most important benchmark for great QB's then where do you put someone like Dan Marino in comparison to Eli?

Seriously?

I would prefer to draft a Dan Marino than an Eli Manning if I could be given such a clear choice (of course, this kind of knowledge is always known after the fact).

I never said Eli would have a better legacy than Peyton if he won tomorrow but it would be a lot closer. Especially if Peyton can't re-gain his greatness due to this neck problem he has suffered from this past year.

When you think of the teams Peyton has brought into the playoffs and failed to even make it to the Super Bowl let alone win it.

In the one season Peyton did win a title he benefited from an immense meltdown by the Patriots that year and played a Bears team that had a QB that recently had to fight for a starting job with something called John Beck in Washington.

There has to be intangibles that stats don't show when you consider legacy. Eli might have suffered from some average regular seasons but he's shown to be a terrific playoff QB.

The problem with fans of your ilk is that you place so much importance on a tournament that has a small sample size and for which you place all this importance on one player out of 53.

Yes, the QB is generally the most important player on the field but teams win and lose all the time due to plays that don't involve the QB.

Throw in random luck (fumble recovery being the most obvious) and to come to the conclusion that QB X is better than QB Y because X has more rings than Y is just plain illogical if not outright stupid.

One should look at a players entire career to make judgements.

Peyton is clearly the best QB to ever play the game - even if he doesn't come back.

Tom Brady is certainly up there too. Despite having more rings, and even if "he wins" one more tomorrow, Brady still has a way to go to hope to surpass Peyton.

And I say that as a fan of the Patriots with nothing more than a grudging respect of the Colts.

[msj]

I never said the Ravens were better. But they came within a Lee Evans drop from winning the game.

You mean where Sterling Moore defensed the pass?

Tom Brady even said he played very poorly that game, no wait he said he "sucked". Sure it's more damning to the Ravens that they blew the game and the Giants did need OT and two very bad Special Teams plays to beat the Niners.

Sure, he didn't play well but that's to be expected when you are going up against one of the best pass defences in the league.

Yet the Pat's still got 23 points on them.

And Brady still played better than Flacco, Manning or Smith.

[Shady]

You mean where Sterling Moore defensed the pass?

Sure, he didn't play well but that's to be expected when you are going up against one of the best pass defences in the league.

Yet the Pat's still got 23 points on them.

And Brady still played better than Flacco, Manning or Smith.

I disagree that Brady played better than Flacco. I'd say they played about the same.

[msj]

I disagree that Brady played better than Flacco. I'd say they played about the same.

But Flacco did not play the best pass defence in the league.

Brady did.

Flacco played the third worst pass defence in the league.

[Shady]

But Flacco did not play the best pass defence in the league.

Brady did.

Flacco played the third worst pass defence in the league.

So what? If you take the Patriots pass defence over the last 8 weeks, it was ranked much higher than third worst. Their ranking is skewed because of how they played at the beginning of the season.

Yes, but Flacco played on the road, while Brady played at home.

[msj]

So what? If you take the Patriots pass defence over the last 8 weeks, it was ranked much higher than third worst. Their ranking is skewed because of how they played at the beginning of the season.

Yes, but Flacco played on the road, while Brady played at home.

And that is all factored into the numbers I have already linked to.

[Shady]

And that is all factored into the numbers I have already linked to.

That's great. But they still played about equal. Plus, Flacco can't be held responsible for the touchdown drop of his reciever.

[msj]

That's great. But they still played about equal. Plus, Flacco can't be held responsible for the touchdown drop of his reciever.

No he can't be held responsible for that pass which was defenced by Sterling Moore rather than dropped by Lee Evans.

[Shady]

No he can't be held responsible for that pass which was defenced by Sterling Moore rather than dropped by Lee Evans.

Nope, that ball should've been held on to. There was no reason not to secure it. But it was a nice play by the much better than third worst pass defense.

[msj]

Nope, that ball should've been held on to. There was no reason not to secure it. But it was a nice play by the much better than third worst pass defense.

Sure, and I can go back to NFL Game Pass and watch the entire game again and point out various what if scenarios.

It's not as if the Pats didn't have any "drops" or that the Ravens didn't defence passes well too.

You just forget about all of those because it happens on third and 5, or first and 10, or whatever.

[Shady]

Sure, and I can go back to NFL Game Pass and watch the entire game again and point out various what if scenarios.

It's not as if the Pats didn't have any "drops" or that the Ravens didn't defence passes well too.

You just forget about all of those because it happens on third and 5, or first and 10, or whatever.

No need. I've watched the game, twice. And Flacco and Brady played just about even. In fact, Flacco probably played a little better than Brady in my opinion. But that's what's great about sports. A lot of it's completely subjective.

[msj]

No need. I've watched the game, twice. And Flacco and Brady played just about even. In fact, Flacco probably played a little better than Brady in my opinion. But that's what's great about sports. A lot of it's completely subjective.

Well, I've watched the game twice and have read the play by play.

I agree with the stats already presented which are certainly more objective than either of our opinions.

[msj]

Well, isn't that sad: another 8 months before real football begins.

Another great game even if the wrong team won.

[Boges]

Well, isn't that sad: another 8 months before real football begins.

Another great game even if the wrong team won.

The Great Tom Brady is 0-2 again Eli Manning in Super Bowls.

Big mistakes by the Pats down the stretch. How does Wes Welker miss that play at the Giants 20? That INT Brady threw was Brutal.

Gronk almost had that Hail Mary. I bet Bradshaw would have been seen as a goat had the Pats won because he failed to kneel at the one when Belicheat told everyone to let him in.

[msj]

The Great Tom Brady is 0-2 again Eli Manning in Super Bowls.

Big mistakes by the Pats down the stretch. How does Wes Welker miss that play at the Giants 20? That INT Brady threw was Brutal.

That interception wasn't even close to brutal.

It was thrown with lots of time left in the game, was a chance taken during a good opportunity, and was not much more than a very long punt (albeit on first and 10 rather than third and ten).

The defender (a linebacker) made a very good play (for a linebacker) and Gronk likely would have been able to make better adjustments to either catch the ball or break up the play if he wasn't injured.

Gronk almost had that Hail Mary. I bet Bradshaw would have been seen as a goat had the Pats won because he failed to kneel at the one when Belicheat told everyone to let him in.

Gronk wasn't even close to catching that.

As for Belichick - yes, I told my wife that he should let them score (although sooner than when they did) and I was disappointed when Bradshaw failed to down himself at the one.

As for judging Bradshaw based on outcome - that's what typical people do - because the NYG won he will pass with little criticism. Had the Pats miraclously won then he would be judged as the "goat."

His decision to not down himself was poor regardless of the final outcome.

[Boges]

That interception wasn't even close to brutal.

It was thrown with lots of time left in the game, was a chance taken during a good opportunity, and was not much more than a very long punt (albeit on first and 10 rather than third and ten).

The defender (a linebacker) made a very good play (for a linebacker) and Gronk likely would have been able to make better adjustments to either catch the ball or break up the play if he wasn't injured.

The ball was also clearly underthrown. From what I've seen about the Pats, long passes like that aren't their game. Lots of throws underneath to their two TE's and Welker.

A 20 or so yard pass to 85 was their longest pass of the game, I belive.

That's why I was pretty confident even though Brady is amazing that he had very little chance of moving the team down the field with a minute left at the end of the game.

[bush_cheney2004]

Alas, Tom Brady can't throw and catch the ball. Patriot receivers had hands of stone at the worst possible time...Giants didn't.

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/super-bowl-2012-gisele-bundchen-comforts-husband-tom-brady-slams-patriots-receivers-article-1.1017852

Edited February 6, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[Boges]

Alas, Tom Brady can't throw and catch the ball. Patriot receivers had hands of stone at the worst possible time...Giants didn't.

Thanks Giselle.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/02/06/gisele-budnchen-blames-husband-tom-bradys-receivers-for-super-bowl-loss/

Please post pics.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Boges

[Shady]

His decision to not down himself was poor regardless of the final outcome.

I disagree. I think that he did the right thing by scoring the touchdown. I'd rather have the sure points, and a four point lead with less than a minute left, than run the time down, and have everything come down to a field goal kick with a ton of pressure on my kicker.

[bush_cheney2004]

I disagree. I think that he did the right thing by scoring the touchdown....

Would you be saying that if Bronk caught the deflected Hail Mary in the end zone, giving the Pats a win?

Going out of bounds after getting the first down and Bradshaw not downing himself on the one yard line preserved time and a time out for Brady to do his thing, and he almost did.

[Shady]

Would you be saying that if Bronk caught the deflected Hail Mary in the end zone, giving the Pats a win?

Yes.

Going out of bounds after getting the first down and Bradshaw not downing himself on the one yard line preserved time and a time out for Brady to do his thing, and he almost did.

I mostly agree. Although I think Nicks going out of bounds was a lot worse than Bradshaw not downing himself.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I mostly agree. Although I think Nicks going out of bounds was a lot worse than Bradshaw not downing himself.

Right, it's part of the same end game strategy to keep Brady off the field. To be fair, I have rarely seen the one yard line lay down ever work in the NFL. It is also not in keeping with the game's honour! It's a discontinuity for the game to purposely let the other team score to preserve time on the clock. Whatever happened to defense?

Edited February 6, 2012 by bush_cheney2004