Quebec Pupil Wears Headphones to Avoid Hearing Music

[The_Squid]

They should not be denied a fundamental right, a requirement even, simply because they don't want their child committing a sin when he/she is in class. The kid can be taught the ABCs and 123s without it being done through music. There's no reason he/she needs to be exposed to music, if they don't want him to be.

So, what about biology (evolution) class? Some Muslims don't believe in evolution. Should they be excused from taking this class?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/uk-muslim-students-boycott-lectures-on-evolution/story-e6frgcjx-1226208363347

Please provide some evidence of your contention that they already are excused from biology class as well.

What about music class? Should they receive an 'F'?

Edited December 22, 2011 by The_Squid

[The_Squid]

These people of faith actually attempt to perpetuate their crazy laws with some pseudo-science!!

http://www.islam-laws.com/musicgreatersin.htm

Music creates vibrations in the body and these are conveyed to all the parts of the body through the nervous system. As a result of this, indigestion occurs. Music affects the heart in such a way that the heartbeats become irregular. The blood pressure goes awry. All such ailments make a person permanently ill. Consequently, even modern medical science, in spite of its astonishing progress, fails in such a situation. Sometimes, the music is so intense that the listeners lose their sanity. They become dumb and various kinds of mental diseases occur. In places where music is more prevalent, we find that there are more neurotic illnesses. It is for this reason that more mental hospitals are to be found in Europe and America.

This is the kind of crazy superstitions that our public school system should be kowtowing to?

[olp1fan]

These people of faith actually attempt to perpetuate their crazy laws with some pseudo-science!!

http://www.islam-laws.com/musicgreatersin.htm

This is the kind of crazy superstitions that our public school system should be kowtowing to?

I read earlier from an Islamic site that listening to music gives you homosexual tendencies and is to be forbidden

[cybercoma]

So, what about biology (evolution) class? Some Muslims don't believe in evolution. Should they be excused from taking this class?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/uk-muslim-students-boycott-lectures-on-evolution/story-e6frgcjx-1226208363347

Please provide some evidence of your contention that they already are excused from biology class as well.

What about music class? Should they receive an 'F'?

Would being in a biology class constitute a sin like promiscuous sex and drinking?

[Michael Hardner]

I read earlier from an Islamic site that listening to music gives you homosexual tendencies and is to be forbidden

Well, we in the west now KNOW that to be true, but only because of decades of extensive research with ABBA, Madonna, Britney Spears, etc. In this sense, perhaps we are more advanced.

[olp1fan]

Well, we in the west now KNOW that to be true, but only because of decades of extensive research with ABBA, Madonna, Britney Spears, etc. In this sense, perhaps we are more advanced.

I think you're joking so I will give you a LOL good one

[The_Squid]

Would being in a biology class constitute a sin like promiscuous sex and drinking?

A sin seems to change depending upon their religious leaders... music is a sin to some, but not others.

They might ask to be excused from biology class based upon religious grounds. If this happens, should they be excused?

You claim that they are already being excused from biology. Where is the evidence to back up this claim?

[sharkman]

There is more on this particular Muslim interpretation about music here: http://www.inter-islam.org/Prohibitions/Mansy_music.htm

It seems that the same rules that prohibit many Muslims from drinking and promiscuity, also refer to music. There is concern about the psychological and physiological effects of being constantly exposed to music. Songs carry messages and Muslims here are arguing that they should be free to choose whether or not they are exposed to those messages.

Whether you agree with them or not, they have a point. We shouldn't be forcing people to be exposed to something that they feel is against their religious values.

My view is that is fine. They should be free to choose. And they are, at any time they can go to the school administrators or teacher and say, "whenever music is playing we are going to instruct our child to put on headphones because we don't want our child to be exposed to this."

They shouldn't, however, be able to make the school run around putting headphones, or whatever else parents may come up with, on the students in question. In an above example one poster walked his self out of whatever class it was that offended his then religion whenever it was on. What's wrong with that solution?

[cybercoma]

They tried changing the curriculum in many states in the US. They added labels to science books in Texas and sued the school board in Kansa. Children have been excluded, but I don't have the specific news reports at my disposal to show you. In Canada, children have been excluded from sexual education classes for religious reasons. It happens. Besides, the parents haven't fought to exclude the child from a core part of the curriculum. They've just requested that he/she is not exposed to music, as it is against their religion. It's a reasonable request and when you think it about it, you begin to realize that we are constantly bombarded by messages in popular music.

Edited December 22, 2011 by cybercoma

[The_Squid]

It happens.

You claimed it happened in biology classes in Canada.... Unless you can provide some evidence, then what you claim is probably not true at all.

Should children be excused from biology class for religious reasons? You still have not answered that....

[The_Squid]

It's a reasonable request and when you think it about it, you begin to realize that we are constantly bombarded by messages in popular music.

This is what music does to a person according to their religious teachings:

http://www.islam-law...cgreatersin.htm

Music creates vibrations in the body and these are conveyed to all the parts of the body through the nervous system. As a result of this, indigestion occurs. Music affects the heart in such a way that the heartbeats become irregular. The blood pressure goes awry. All such ailments make a person permanently ill. Consequently, even modern medical science, in spite of its astonishing progress, fails in such a situation. Sometimes, the music is so intense that the listeners lose their sanity. They become dumb and various kinds of mental diseases occur. In places where music is more prevalent, we find that there are more neurotic illnesses. It is for this reason that more mental hospitals are to be found in Europe and America.

This is actually a nutso theory. This kind of nonsense borders upon child abuse.

[GostHacked]

Could be a new movie here in the works. Footloose : Islam

[GostHacked]

This is what music does to a person according to their religious teachings:

http://www.islam-law...cgreatersin.htm

This is actually a nutso theory. This kind of nonsense borders upon child abuse.

Actually it's not so nutso. Music does have a huge psychological and physiological effect on the human body, mind, spirit. Play soft easy listening music to a child and see how they react, then switch it up with some hard metal and see how the child reacts.

Sound is vibrations, and we can pick up those vibrations through the ear drum. Certain notes and combination of notes can make you feel a certain way. As a former DJ, I can play a track that will get everyone up and dancing .. or I can play a track that makes them all leave.

Music has a huge effect on me. And if it's not the kind of music I like, I get very irritated. If you are musically inclined at all, you'll know what I am talking about. So they are not off the mark when they describe the effects of music.

[The_Squid]

Actually it's not so nutso. Music does have a huge psychological and physiological effect on the human body, mind, spirit. Play soft easy listening music to a child and see how they react, then switch it up with some hard metal and see how the child reacts.

Sound is vibrations, and we can pick up those vibrations through the ear drum. Certain notes and combination of notes can make you feel a certain way. As a former DJ, I can play a track that will get everyone up and dancing .. or I can play a track that makes them all leave.

Music has a huge effect on me. And if it's not the kind of music I like, I get very irritated. If you are musically inclined at all, you'll know what I am talking about. So they are not off the mark when they describe the effects of music.

I know that music can cause physilogical and pyschological effects.

But come on.... Seriously? According to Islamic teachings:

They become dumb and various kinds of mental diseases occur. In places where music is more prevalent, we find that there are more neurotic illnesses. It is for this reason that more mental hospitals are to be found in Europe and America.

So music causes mental illness? This is no different than saying mental illness is demon posession.

You are equating proven effects of music to the crap that some Imams teach? Really? You don't see that there is a difference????

Edited December 22, 2011 by The_Squid

[GostHacked]

I know that music can cause physilogical and pyschological effects.

But come on.... Seriously? According to Islamic teachings:

Agreed, the correlation to the mental hospitals is not a supporting point of that argument.

So music causes mental illness? This is no different than saying mental illness is demon posession.

Ever get the urge to just get up off your ass and dance? Ever try to explain and understand why you could not resist the urge to get up and get down? If music can have positive effects on a person,(depending on the musci) playing music the person does not like can effect them in negitive ways. One reason why loud obnoxious music is used as a method of sleep deprivation and torture.

You are equating proven effects of music to the crap that some Imams teach? Really?

No I am not equating that. I am saying that it is not nuts to say that music has physiological and psychological effects on the human body, no matter if it is positive or negative. I don't agree with the Imam's specific take on it.

[Guest American Woman]

You claimed it happened in biology classes in Canada.... Unless you can provide some evidence, then what you claim is probably not true at all.

Should children be excused from biology class for religious reasons? You still have not answered that....

I think this post by cybercoma might help shed some light on how he feels about it:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/25/id_not_science/

The United Kingdom is putting creationism in its place, that is to say, nowhere near a science classroom. It's about time a government stood up and defended reason against religious zealots who are trying to indoctrinate children with untested mythological ideas presented as tried and tested scientific knowledge.

[The_Squid]

It's about time a government stood up and defended reason against religious zealots who are trying to indoctrinate children with untested mythological ideas presented as tried and tested scientific knowledge.

I totally agree with this. I wish we would do the same thing for their mytholgical ideas that are presented as science about music too!!

Why should they be allowed to spread crazy, bogus ideas about what music will do to their poor children if they have to sing "itsy bitsy spider"?

[The_Squid]

I think this post by cybercoma might help shed some light on how he feels about it:

If that's the way he feels, I wonder why he is avoiding the question....???

[Wilber]

"Music" covers a lot of territory. What are they talking about, Bach or Guns N' Roses?

[The_Squid]

"Music" covers a lot of territory. What are they talking about, Bach or Guns N' Roses?

Everything. From guitars to sitars.... from bach to rock.... Listening or playing music is a sin, forbidden by their interpretation of their holy book. If one listens to music, it will cause mental illness.

[Guest American Woman]

If that's the way he feels, I wonder why he is avoiding the question....???

Maybe because he's applauding the government for standing up to Christian "religious zealots" in the classroom while he thinks the government should respect the religious beliefs of Muslims. In fact, he seems to be defending their 'music is bad' belief. In other words, perhaps he's avoiding the question because it would show his hypocrisy.

[Guest American Woman]

Quote Cybercoma: It's about time a government stood up and defended reason against religious zealots who are trying to indoctrinate children with untested mythological ideas presented as tried and tested scientific knowledge.

I totally agree with this. I wish we would do the same thing for their mytholgical ideas that are presented as science about music too!!

Why should they be allowed to spread crazy, bogus ideas about what music will do to their poor children if they have to sing "itsy bitsy spider"?

Perhaps Cybercoma can explain since he feels we should be respecting religious beliefs pertaining to music while applauding the government taking a stand against religious beliefs about creationism.

[olp1fan]

Maybe because he's applauding the government for standing up to Christian "religious zealots" in the classroom while he thinks the government should respect the religious beliefs of Muslims. In fact, he seems to be defending their 'music is bad' belief. In other words, perhaps he's avoiding the question because it would show his hypocrisy.

you often do see bleeding heart liberals attack Christianity and give Islam a pass.. which is lame cause they both deserve a bashing

[cybercoma]

If that's the way he feels, I wonder why he is avoiding the question....???

Because that quote she went and dragged out of context would be akin to Muslims getting the schoolboard to ban all music in the curriculum because it's against their teachings. That's why.

Check out this article from Macleans about Muslims in Manitoba that wanted their kids pulled from music classes and co-ed phys. ed. classes. In the comments, you will see a Terry D. Borys. I believe he did exactly the right thing and sheds a lot of light on the problems with the discourse around this matter. These circumstances need to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. Muslims that do not want to be exposed to music are a very small minority and any accommodation needs to be reasonable. That does not, contrary to what people keep saying, mean that I support accommodating them in all situations by any means necessary. It means that if they can be reasonably accommodated they should be. If they want to opt out of entire portions of the curriculum (ie, a whole music class, or all co-ed physical education, or all sexual education classes) then too bad. However, the discourse around religious accommodation in the public, which is reflected on this forum as well, is one of intolgerance and beliigerence towards the values and beliefs of others. That, I believe is wholly unacceptable in our society, where we try to allow people the liberty to be who they want to be and more importantly raise their children the way they want to. Reasonable accommodation does mean accommodating everything. In the OP, I think it's reasonable that the child not be exposed to music, but I don't necessarily think it would be reasonable to withdraw the kid from music classes, if that's part of the curriculum. I think Borys handled it admirably.

[cybercoma]

Maybe because he's applauding the government for standing up to Christian "religious zealots" in the classroom while he thinks the government should respect the religious beliefs of Muslims. In fact, he seems to be defending their 'music is bad' belief. In other words, perhaps he's avoiding the question because it would show his hypocrisy.

Why do you make garbage up? I have a problem with Christians trying to change the curriculum, just like I would have a problem with Muslims trying to get music pulled out of the classroom or trying to force the schools to have segregated physical education classes. My problem is with religious zealots forcing their religious beliefs on others, but you seemed to miss that when you were quote mining.