Jack Weber Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) Folks, hockey is very expensive. To sign with my brothers AAA team is $2300 , then there are arena fees for entry for all other than players, sticks running from $100-$250 a month, so far there have been 4 tourneys, Flint Mich,Some Christian College tourney down Mass way (Mercyhurst maybe) and Pennsylvania. To come is the christmas tourney and since they have qualified there is the Silver Stick tourney in January. DO the math for those 4 tourneys, gas food hotel entertainment. All told about 60 games then playoffs. $5000 + and in many cases almost $10,000 every year. All players above House league sign contracts, 2 yr contracts was the norm and has been forever. I signed them waaaaaay back in the day. It was a little cheaper to play elite, however we played 60 games, 5 tourneys (one on West Coast in Van City or St,Louis each yr) and then playoffs right thru to the finals. Yup! Ne thankful you dont have swimmers. Seems swimming and figure skating are not volunteer jobs, they are paid. A freind has 3 daughters in swimming, in excess of $5000 per child. Coach gets paid, hotel and expenses paid.....my brother is a AAA coach and doles lots of his own money but does not get free anything. (well he gets free tape....and I steal it from him alllll the time) Contracts for rep hockey,or any sport,that I doubt would hold up in court are completely ridiculous.The reason for this is to guilt the kid,and the parents into staying with hockey (in this case) and keep money in that system... They justifications given were that they did'nt want him playing any contact sport that might get him hurt... As I said,the real reason is money rlated and the happy by-product (for the hockey folks) of this is it keeps another sport without a viable athelete. The ironic thing was that with two games to go in high school football season,some hockey goon sent this kid head first into the boards from behind leaving him seriously concussed...Ended his football season,in the process...A championship season,I might add...The hockey team sucks! I wonder if thiese hockey people called to apologize to the high school football coaches for getting a starting running back hurt?? I saw the kid on Tuesday afternoon and he still can't see straight and has balance problems...Needless to say,the parents have had enough of dealing with hockey people and the cost factor,and this kids going to start playing more football in the Spring,Summer,and,Fall... Edited December 10, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Um you can;t blame the hockey coaches for that! the kid wanted to play both sports ...I didn't see the hit but a lot of times players turn into the boards at the last second before they get hit.. im not saying that is what happened here ... it could have been totally wreckless on the checkers part or it could have been a split second hit that went wrong but don't blame the hockey people ...that kid had a choice to play hockey or football and he chose both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Um you can;t blame the hockey coaches for that! the kid wanted to play both sports ...I didn't see the hit but a lot of times players turn into the boards at the last second before they get hit.. im not saying that is what happened here ... it could have been totally wreckless on the checkers part or it could have been a split second hit that went wrong but don't blame the hockey people ...that kid had a choice to play hockey or football and he chose both I'm not blaming the coaches...I'm saying the stupid justifications for the contract were bogus and ironic...And the intention of a questionably enforceable highly suspect.Remember,even though the kid wanted to play both sports,he was being strongarmed into doing only one... This kid was suspended for going to a football practice on the day of a hockey game because of this silliness,yet we never heared word one from these clowns after this happened... By the way,I've been told by both parents that it was a blatant dirty hit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 meh, lesson for the future .. never sign a contract unless you're willing to abide by it otherwise do not sign! of course the parents thought it was dirty..they're not biased at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) meh, lesson for the future .. never sign a contract unless you're willing to abide by it otherwise do not sign! of course the parents thought it was dirty..they're not biased at all The lesson I see is to play another sport that does'nt try to monopolize a young mans time.And one that uses the pretnse of false protection to justify the monopolization... This is yet another reason why I have little to no time for hockey at any level... Edited December 10, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 The lesson I see is to play another sport that does'nt try to monopolize a young mans time.And one that uses the pretnse of false protection to justify the monopolization... This is yet another reason why I have little to no time for hockey at any level... Both sports require a lot of attention, the parents should not have let him play both..should have made him pick one..I didn't know of any hockey player playing football or vice versa when I was in HS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Both sports require a lot of attention, the parents should not have let him play both..should have made him pick one..I didn't know of any hockey player playing football or vice versa when I was in HS That's probably because of the overlap... Thankfully,many rep football programs have got smart and now play in the Spring and Summer...However,in this specific case,these coaches wanted this kid to give up playing football in the Summer,as well... Now just the opposite is going to happen because of the attitude of these people.I have to say,it seems to be the pervasive attitude of many of those involved in youth hockey...Looks good on them...And good on the kid because he's realized the stupidity of these goofy contracts and what it's really all about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 I read more and more parents aren't letting their kids play ice hockey due to concussions I think that is a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 I read more and more parents aren't letting their kids play ice hockey due to concussions I think that is a good thing I read things like minor football has more participants than minor hockey in places like Quebec because of the cost involved,amongst other things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Its possible But we're starting to learn a lot about concussions and the effects they have on the brain so I am really thinking Hockey and Football will be played less and less by kids and teens as the years go on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Its possible But we're starting to learn a lot about concussions and the effects they have on the brain so I am really thinking Hockey and Football will be played less and less by kids and teens as the years go on Maybe,but as of now,their popularity tends to say otherwise... And outside of Canada,hockey does'nt come close to the popularity of football in North America... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Worldwide though its basically only U.S that is crazy about football .. hockey has Russia, U.S, Northern Europe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 soccer allows players to come into the game if there is an injury ..so its not like they play short a man or menonly three substitutions in TOTAL...there is no in and out like hockey substitutions, no forth line warming the bench to replace injured layers...subs in soccer are tactical they aren't meant for injuries, once three subs are used if there is an injury the team plays short handed for the remainder of that game, regardless the amount of time left...at no time does a hockey team play a man or two down unless there is a penalty, and then it's temporary for the length of the penalty...a game ejection in soccer means the team plays shorthanded for the remainder of the game, two ejections they play with nine, no bringing subs from the bench to replace them....in hockey you only have an extra goalie on the bench so if a player gets hurt you have to play down a man or twowhich puts extra pressure on other players and they end up playing a lot more minutes more minutes ya someone from that over worked forth line of bench warmers may actually get in a shift or two... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Maybe,but as of now,their popularity tends to say otherwise... And outside of Canada,hockey does'nt come close to the popularity of football in North America... Hockey in my town was cheap to sign up compared to you boys out in ontario, but still too expensive for the cattle guys to afford so, not much elite hockey players come out of that. I blame hockey canada and that ridiculous minor hockey garbage past 14 yrs old. One thing I like about the states is how they develop talent, all through the high school and college level, that way they at least get an education out of it rather than the clown show we have. For high school aged kids there is a proposterous amount of hockey leagues to play in, which is imo a money scam. I'd have it done thru mhsaa (in manitoba), and if the kid isn't good enough, then house league. For high school volleyball and basketball, it cost zippo except for meals, hotels and shorts/shoes. I'm pretty sure 6 man football in sk is very reasonably priced and its done through the high school system and is very popular over there. Its funny my town is kicking out more canadian college/ncaa athletes than chl hockey players both male and female. And jack weber is right about some coaches, they need to get their head out of their ass when it comes to teenagers playing more than one sport. Save it for when there is money on the line. Some people are idiots when it comes to hockey and their kids and that's why hockey is passe in my town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Hockey in my town was cheap to sign up compared to you boys out in ontario, but still too expensive for the cattle guys to afford so, not much elite hockey players come out of that. I blame hockey canada and that ridiculous minor hockey garbage past 14 yrs old. One thing I like about the states is how they develop talent, all through the high school and college level, that way they at least get an education out of it rather than the clown show we have. For high school aged kids there is a proposterous amount of hockey leagues to play in, which is imo a money scam. I'd have it done thru mhsaa (in manitoba), and if the kid isn't good enough, then house league. For high school volleyball and basketball, it cost zippo except for meals, hotels and shorts/shoes. I'm pretty sure 6 man football in sk is very reasonably priced and its done through the high school system and is very popular over there. Its funny my town is kicking out more canadian college/ncaa athletes than chl hockey players both male and female. And jack weber is right about some coaches, they need to get their head out of their ass when it comes to teenagers playing more than one sport. Save it for when there is money on the line. Some people are idiots when it comes to hockey and their kids and that's why hockey is passe in my town. Here's the thing... As I states before,rep football in this country has started to get its act together...Instead of going up against hockey,like when I was playing,they've gone to Sping and Summer ball.They no longer compete with hockey or high school ball,they only compete with soccer and baseball.Interestingly enough,I remember watching the Grey Cup 2 or 3 years ago,and during the pre-game they had a piece on minor football in this country and how quickly it is growing.That's wher I learned that it's more popular than minor hockey in Quebec (which I was shocked by) and that it is extremely popular with the children of first generation Canadians. This only bodes well for the future of the sport in this country.The problem is that hockey has become an elitist sort of thing st that level because of the cost just for entry.secondly,at about age 13,many kids give up on soccer and are looking for a sport that is more acceptable in North American society.Hockey is about as foreign as it gets to these kids,but football is'nt.And it's far more affordable for the parents,because unlike hockey,pads are usually included in the initial fee. The Spring and Summer thing cannot be overstated...This has had a positive effect on the calibre of play at the high school level,which has started to pay dividends at the CIS level in this country.This will undoubtedly pay the same dividends at the professional level in this country,as well... And this is why,it seems these contracts come into play from the hockey side of things.These people are trying to monopolize the young atheletes by essentially guilting the kid AND the parents into playing one sport.I've seen this time and time again from these people for it be just a coincidence,especially when they are demanding that they cannot participate in an off season sport. And you are right,and it's the same arguement we made to the kid who was unfortunately injured a few weeks ago..I'm not a coach,but I'm involved with the high school team,and I've known this kid for a long time going back to pee wee football.I asked him if he was getting paid by these coaches to not play another sport?He obviously said no because he's just started grade 9.I asked him what does he think he owes these people after his parents shelled out ove 2 grand?He realized that it was basically nothing.He admitted to me he's basically a 4th line player..To which I answered he should realize that he's essentially a starting running back that's going to win a regional championship in grade 9 AND athletic scholarships are now available in Ontario (on a limited basis).I asked him if he had considered the fact that even if he never played a down of pro ball,that if he got a free university education out of this then it was worth it,and that as far as hockey goes,this is probably as far as it was going to be for him?It seemed a light bulb went off... I know his parents pretty well,and they are not very pleased with what has happened.So much that they seriously thinking of changing sports,and going towards the football side of things from here on out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Here's the thing... As I states before,rep football in this country has started to get its act together...Instead of going up against hockey,like when I was playing,they've gone to Sping and Summer ball.They no longer compete with hockey or high school ball,they only compete with soccer and baseball.Interestingly enough,I remember watching the Grey Cup 2 or 3 years ago,and during the pre-game they had a piece on minor football in this country and how quickly it is growing.That's wher I learned that it's more popular than minor hockey in Quebec (which I was shocked by) and that it is extremely popular with the children of first generation Canadians. This only bodes well for the future of the sport in this country.The problem is that hockey has become an elitist sort of thing st that level because of the cost just for entry.secondly,at about age 13,many kids give up on soccer and are looking for a sport that is more acceptable in North American society.Hockey is about as foreign as it gets to these kids,but football is'nt.And it's far more affordable for the parents,because unlike hockey,pads are usually included in the initial fee. The Spring and Summer thing cannot be overstated...This has had a positive effect on the calibre of play at the high school level,which has started to pay dividends at the CIS level in this country.This will undoubtedly pay the same dividends at the professional level in this country,as well... And this is why,it seems these contracts come into play from the hockey side of things.These people are trying to monopolize the young atheletes by essentially guilting the kid AND the parents into playing one sport.I've seen this time and time again from these people for it be just a coincidence,especially when they are demanding that they cannot participate in an off season sport. And you are right,and it's the same arguement we made to the kid who was unfortunately injured a few weeks ago..I'm not a coach,but I'm involved with the high school team,and I've known this kid for a long time going back to pee wee football.I asked him if he was getting paid by these coaches to not play another sport?He obviously said no because he's just started grade 9.I asked him what does he think he owes these people after his parents shelled out ove 2 grand?He realized that it was basically nothing.He admitted to me he's basically a 4th line player..To which I answered he should realize that he's essentially a starting running back that's going to win a regional championship in grade 9 AND athletic scholarships are now available in Ontario (on a limited basis).I asked him if he had considered the fact that even if he never played a down of pro ball,that if he got a free university education out of this then it was worth it,and that as far as hockey goes,this is probably as far as it was going to be for him?It seemed a light bulb went off... I know his parents pretty well,and they are not very pleased with what has happened.So much that they seriously thinking of changing sports,and going towards the football side of things from here on out... A big reason hockey is more affordable out here is that there is every brand of snowmobile dealer within easy driving distance. If parents are forking out the dollars you guys say they are in urban ontario, that snowmobile is a realistic option and since farm kids can have their dads claim it as a business expense and can burn farm gas in it, its more affordable than hockey, and dad has hundreds of acres of fields for the kid to play on. Its funny because you have 16 year old kids bringing their sleds to school and to and from basketball practice and high school basketball was free anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) Hockey in my town was cheap to sign up compared to you boys out in ontario, but still too expensive for the cattle guys to afford so, not much elite hockey players come out of that. I blame hockey canada and that ridiculous minor hockey garbage past 14 yrs old. One thing I like about the states is how they develop talent, all through the high school and college level, that way they at least get an education out of it rather than the clown show we have. For high school aged kids there is a proposterous amount of hockey leagues to play in, which is imo a money scam. I'd have it done thru mhsaa (in manitoba), and if the kid isn't good enough, then house league. For high school volleyball and basketball, it cost zippo except for meals, hotels and shorts/shoes. I'm pretty sure 6 man football in sk is very reasonably priced and its done through the high school system and is very popular over there. Its funny my town is kicking out more canadian college/ncaa athletes than chl hockey players both male and female. we need to look at where costs go, facilities eat up a lot of cash, then is supporting organization which requires office rent and full time staff, hockey facilities are particularly expense...on a personal level again hockey is probably the most expensive, for cost equipping one hockey player you could equip an entire soccer, basketball or volleyball team...6 or 9 man football in sask is covered by the schools the facilities used are free and the equipment recycled year after year so cost the players nothing... And jack weber is right about some coaches, they need to get their head out of their ass when it comes to teenagers playing more than one sport. Save it for when there is money on the line. Some people are idiots when it comes to hockey and their kids and that's why hockey is passe in my town. yes and no...it depends on the level the team is playing at and when it being played...two sports doesn't work with team sports it hurts the entire team when a player misses games or practices because he's at his/her other sport, if they're doing it in the off season it shouldn't be an issue... Edited December 10, 2011 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 One thing I like about the states is how they develop talent, all through the high school and college level, that way they at least get an education out of it rather than the clown show we have. Then you should really love Canadian Hockey...right? All CHL teams have an Education advisor on roster. He will contact school principals, find out the schedule....liason w same when there are missed days or tests. Most of the rules are quite strict, ie return from a game in the SOO back to Guelph (a loooong way) and you better have your ass in that school seat come 9AM tomorrow.. Failure to perform at school is cause for benching, discipline or outright release.They take it very seriously. For high school volleyball and basketball, it cost zippo except for meals, hotels and shorts/shoes. Not exactly zippo since the whole community supports the school thru taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Then you should really love Canadian Hockey...right? All CHL teams have an Education advisor on roster. He will contact school principals, find out the schedule....liason w same when there are missed days or tests. Most of the rules are quite strict, ie return from a game in the SOO back to Guelph (a loooong way) and you better have your ass in that school seat come 9AM tomorrow.. Failure to perform at school is cause for benching, discipline or outright release.They take it very seriously. Not exactly zippo since the whole community supports the school thru taxes. That's a high school education, i'm talking a bit later development just after high school when the junior career is just about over. For some of those kids, Chl is about as far as they get, then what afterwards? At least in the American system, it's all streamlined into one league and if the NCAA scouts deem you good enough, you get to play at a fancy D-1 school complete with a college degree if you want it, some lucky blokes get to get an ivy league education. A grade 12 isn't what it used to be unless your willing to roughneck it or are very very entrepreneurial. Hs vball and ball uses infrastructure already in place that doesn't cost much to keep going, plus there isn't much needed in the way of equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 That's a high school education, i'm talking a bit later development just after high school when the junior career is just about over. For some of those kids, Chl is about as far as they get, then what afterwards? Not just high school. Uni and College also. Dontr forget, the hockey teams pays for tuition, books, room and board. "All education costs" are covered. Somce NCAA kids is as far they get. True, but they now both have an education. At least in the American system, it's all streamlined into one league and if the NCAA scouts deem you good enough, you get to play at a fancy D-1 school complete with a college degree if you want it, some lucky blokes get to get an ivy league education. The only ones who get an Ivy ed are the ones who are bright to begin with. Very miniscule number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fotoglyuck Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 We had our other hockey topics ... seems there arent that many hockey fans on these here forums. But I must say Im rooting for the ducks ... just because theyre not the sens. As a leaf fan, I cannt root for the Sens. Ever. Ducks in 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 We had our other hockey topics ... seems there arent that many hockey fans on these here forums. But I must say Im rooting for the ducks ... just because theyre not the sens. As a leaf fan, I cannt root for the Sens. Ever. Ducks in 5. I just can't understand how someone can be a Leaf fan! I was 15 when they won their last cup. I will likely be long dead before they win their next one. The blame falls squarely on the ownership and yes, the fans! The Leafs have absolutely no business need to be a winning ream! Their ownership knows that they can get $400 for a pair of gold seats and they will fill the arena, no matter what. They don't have to spend the money on salaries. They don't have to do anything but just collect the ticket receipts. Thank God the teachers have pulled out! Few of them likely knew which end of a hockey stick was supposed to be on the ice! They didn't care. It was all about their pensions. So the ownership has been all 'suits' and accountants and the fans have all been sheep! What a waste of time! A team doesn't have to always win but it's hard to keep interest without an impression that at least they are a contender. Look at the Blue Jays. After their 2 back to back World Series wins, the ownership obviously adopted a "Leafs" approach to spending money. They figured they could just ride the tide for a while and make some profits but after a few years fans got tired of being told "well, this is a rebuilding year". The season would start out and you'd have high hopes but by May it would be clear that the Jays didn't have a hope of winning a pennant. It is the chance, the hope and the anticipation of a win that motivates fans, not just going through the motions! Yet that's all the Leafs have done for 25 years. I'd rather watch a tiddley-winks tourney than a Leafs game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Is Winnipeg ever going to be transfered to a more appropriate division? I know that they are where they are because they used to be Atlanta but don't you think it is about time the divisions were changed to match the current situation? Edited January 29, 2012 by -TSS- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 I am watching the soccer - Germany is my team. Iceland got decimated today by France. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Brazil won olympic gold but the olympic tournament is only for under 23's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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