Persecuted Christians In America!

[Shady]

A blasphemous defiance of Allah (peace be upon him)!

So you recognize the injustice and hypocrisy as well. Good.

[BubberMiley]

So you recognize the injustice and hypocrisy as well. Good.

What injustice? Someone can say there is no god and it offends all faiths equally. Big deal.

[sharkman]

Which faith is protected?

Is it atheism? Or Mormonism? Or Islam? Or Judaism?

I've seen all mocked here.

But mock the people holding the ideas and you will find trouble. Mock the ideas themselves and you will be fine.

I note that this thread is not mocking Christians per se but the idea that Christians, in America in particular, are persecuted is a ridiculous idea.

The intent of this thread may have been to suggest that Christians are not persecuted in america, but that was 68 pages ago. In this thread I've learned that Christians are bullies, oppressors, gay haters who murder them with their words. That was all just on page 3. No attempt was made to suggest that it was someone's opinion, or that only SOME Christians are murderers. No, they were blanket statements given as fact.

Again, let me remind you that I'm not suggesting theses remarks should be censored or deleted. I'm simply stating that in the judgement of the mods, it's okay to smear all Christians like this but not Muslims. I wonder how the mods would respond if a thread was started saying that all blacks are bigoted thugs or that gays have mental problems.

[BubberMiley]

I wonder how the mods would respond if a thread was started saying that all blacks are bigoted thugs or that gays have mental problems.

You've been around for 100 years and haven't seen those threads yet? What about the kajillion threads about how all muslims are gay-hating goat herders with a tendency for blowing themselves up in crowds? You've really not noticed them?

[msj]

Sharkman, you really have not seen any thread here that does not imply (or explicitly state) that Muslims are terrorists?

Really?

As for this thread one person mentioned the claim about Christians killing homosexuals with their words. And that was nicely rebutted by Boges a few posts later so not sure what your point is?

Sure, the person should have said "some" Christians kill homosexuals with their words and then backed it up with an argument.

You could have taken up this cause.

Or you could have reported the guy who posted it and perhaps moderation action would have occurred. Who knows now?

[sharkman]

Sharkman, you really have not seen any thread here that does not imply (or explicitly state) that Muslims are terrorists?

Really?

As for this thread one person mentioned the claim about Christians killing homosexuals with their words. And that was nicely rebutted by Boges a few posts later so not sure what your point is?

Sure, the person should have said "some" Christians kill homosexuals with their words and then backed it up with an argument.

You could have taken up this cause.

Or you could have reported the guy who posted it and perhaps moderation action would have occurred. Who knows now?

Are you misunderstanding what I am saying? I gave clear examples where people are saying that ALL Christians are oppressors, gay haters, etc. Not that there are some Christians who are but that ALL CHRISTIANS ARE HATERS, etc. I"m not going to read several dozen pages of this thread to list example after example where the poster claims all christians are something bad or disgusting. I read enough of it without going searching for it.

Show me threads where it's claimed that all Muslims are terrorists, etc. That would be giving equal leeway to those critical of the Muslim faith.

Edited June 11, 2015 by sharkman

[BubberMiley]

Are you misunderstanding what I am saying? I gave clear examples where people are saying that ALL Christians are oppressors, gay haters, etc. Not that there are some Christians who are but that ALL CHRISTIANS ARE HATERS, etc. I"m not going to read several dozen pages of this thread to list example after example where the poster claims all christians are something bad or disgusting. I read enough of it without going searching for it.

Actually you didn't give any clear examples. You just pointed us to page 3 of this thread, where the most inflammatory post was this one:

Christianity is responsible for all kinds of atrocities (yes, so are Muslims, I'm not letting them off the hook either)

Christians kill homosexuals with their words, Muslims kill homosexuals with their words and hands ... however I see no big difference between the two when in the end both achieve the same result and feel justified in doing so

Sounds like some pretty equal-opportunity contempt by a member who has since been banned.

Show me threads where it's claimed that all Muslims are terrorists, etc. That would be giving equal leeway to those critical of the Muslim faith.

It hasn't been that long since Mr. Canada was around. Why, sometimes I feel he's still among us.

Edited June 11, 2015 by BubberMiley

[msj]

The funny thing is that I have posted things to this forum where if my identity were revealed, and the right Muslim/Islamist person came along, I would be killed.

Unlike Texans I don't even own a gun so no protection for the guy who does offensive things to Muslims like linking to pictures of Mo.

So, I'm sure that if an Orthodox Muslim came to read this forum he would be appropriately outraged just like you are over Christianity taking a beating.

The funny thing is is that we are having this discussion in a thread called "Persecuted Christians in America!"

I suppose, as BC_2004 would say, the forum is hosted in the US.

Edited June 11, 2015 by msj

[BubberMiley]

Show me threads where it's claimed that all Muslims are terrorists, etc. That would be giving equal leeway to those critical of the Muslim faith.

Would that sound something like this?

The main part of the problem is there are Muslims killing people because the Koran tells them to do it, their leaders tell them to do it, Mohammad tell them to do it, and people like you shrug your shoulders and say,"What problem?"

[sharkman]

The funny thing is that I have posted things to this forum where if my identity were revealed, and the right Muslim/Islamist person came along, I would be killed.

Unlike Texans I don't even own a gun so no protection for the guy who does offensive things to Muslims like linking to pictures of Mo.

So, I'm sure that if an Orthodox Muslim came to read this forum he would be appropriately outraged just like you are over Christianity taking a beating.

The funny thing is is that we are having this discussion in a thread called "Persecuted Christians in America!"

I suppose, as BC_2004 would say, the forum is hosted in the US.

Again with the misunderstanding. Get this through your head if you fail to understand anything else. I am not outraged or offended at this thread.

I don't know why I have to keep repeating myself. I am simply saying that posts critical of the Muslim faith are held to a different standard than ones critical of the Christian faith. I realize you don't agree, so you don't have to repeat yourself again. But that is my point, regardless.

I challenged you to show me these threads where ALL Muslims are called terrorists or otherwise painted with the same brush as I've pointed out Christianity is. Since you can't find any, you should at least concede the point.

Edited June 11, 2015 by sharkman

[msj]

Again with the misunderstanding. Get this through your head if you fail to understand anything else. I am not outraged or offended at this thread.

I don't know why I have to keep repeating myself. I am simply saying that posts critical of the Muslim faith are held to a different standard than ones critical of the Christian faith. I realize you don't agree, so you don't have to repeat yourself again. But that is my point, regardless.

I challenged you to show me these threads where ALL Muslims are called terrorists or otherwise painted with the same brush as I've pointed out Christianity is. Since you can't find any, you should at least concede the point.

Did you really miss bubber quoting your own words?

Really?

If you want to see similar treatment of Muslims then look up threads like "this week in Islam" and threads about building a Mosque near ground zero.

Edited June 11, 2015 by msj

[sharkman]

I've had Bubber on ignore for a couple of years. Every now and then I notice him posting right after me so occasionally remind him. This time I changed my sig. Anyway, I read it since you mentioned it.

The main part of the problem is there are Muslims killing people because the Koran tells them to do it, their leaders tell them to do it, Mohammad tell them to do it, and people like you shrug your shoulders and say,"What problem?"

It's quite clear in that quote that I'm not claiming ALL Muslims are murders. If you are going to be unwilling to read objectively and see what's before your face, so be it. Furthermore, it's clear that there are no threads claiming that ALL Muslims are murderers, terrorists, or anything else. I know this because if there was, then Bubber would have used that instead of what he did find, and if that's the best he can do then that settles it.

[msj]

Since you are ignoring bubber how about this from pik:

Arabs are their own worst enemy, to bad people here cant grasp that. If they actually wanted peace with Israel , it could have been done a long time ago. But the Arabs do not want peace they want blood. Only Israel wants peace.

That's right, the Arabs, as in all Arabs, want blood over peace.

This is as asinine as the "Christians kill homosexuals with words" and, like that post, people have disagreed with pik just like Boges disagreed with that guy in this thread.

But no, it's only the the God fearing Christians who are picked/persecuted on here. /sarcasm.

[msj]

It's quite clear in that quote that I'm not claiming ALL Muslims are murders. If you are going to be unwilling to read objectively and see what's before your face, so be it. Furthermore, it's clear that there are no threads claiming that ALL Muslims are murderers, terrorists, or anything else. I know this because if there was, then Bubber would have used that instead of what he did find, and if that's the best he can do then that settles it.

No different than the guy claiming Christians kill homosexuals with their words.

One probably could find a homosexual or two who has committed suicide thanks to certain Christians acting as bullies.

That poster was likely alluding to this type of thing since we all know that there are lots of people who claim to be Christian but are also socially liberal and support gay rights and even abortion rights.

So your claim of it not being all Muslims (even though you clearly do not qualify it as such) is the same as the implied "it is not all Christians" by that poster on page three of this thread.

You also forget that this thread is not about Christians killing people or whatever.

It is about entitlement Christians enjoy in the U.S. to the point where if someone challenges this entitlement certain people call "persecution."

It is a form of politically correctness that derserves to be called out for the BS that it is.

[sharkman]

It doesn't seem odd... political correctness is rife everywhere, including this forum.

Its odd how unable some are to see it, but perhaps I am idealistic.

[msj]

Its odd how unable some are to see it, but perhaps I am idealistic.

Yes it is odd how you are being politically correct on this issue.

Better not criticize Christians since (allegedly) you can't criticize Muslims.

Then point out where Islam/Muslims are criticized and it becomes: no there is not enough bad mouthing of them and too much of us.

And forever the complaint circle goes.

We're all persecuted, I'm sure.

[Michael Hardner]

I am simply saying that posts critical of the Muslim faith are held to a different standard than ones critical of the Christian faith.

I disagree, and has been pointed out your own example doesn't show it. Since this is about moderation though, I have put that side discussion here:\\

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/24595-general-moderation-questions/?p=1061657

[BubberMiley]

I've had Bubber on ignore for a couple of years. Every now and then I notice him posting right after me so occasionally remind him. This time I changed my sig. Anyway, I read it since you mentioned it.

Yes, a very selective ignore where you only don't notice where you only don't notice when your argument is defeated. Otherwise, you're commenting on my status updates and posts all the time.

But how is it worse saying "all christians are bullies" than to suggest there is something fundamental in the islamic religion that mekes them all want to kill? To use your typical debate approach, I would suggest your overwhelming hatred of muslims has consumed you. Your nine-year-old words show us how you really feel.

[sharkman]

Yes it is odd how you are being politically correct on this issue.

Better not criticize Christians since (allegedly) you can't criticize Muslims.

Then point out where Islam/Muslims are criticized and it becomes: no there is not enough bad mouthing of them and too much of us.

And forever the complaint circle goes.

We're all persecuted, I'm sure.

I'm saying that we should be able to slam both religions. Since you haven't gotten this after my repeated posts, you are either trolling, or just don't care. Either way, I'll bow out of this thread.

[BubberMiley]

I know this because if there was, then Bubber would have used that instead of what he did find, and if that's the best he can do then that settles it.

I found even worse in the very thread I quoted, but the one I chose was funnier because you were the one saying it. The fact that the guy saying Christians are bullies is long banned and you are still here suggests to me that the opposite of what you are complaining about may be true.

I'm saying that we should be able to slam both religions. Since you haven't gotten this after my repeated posts, you are either trolling, or just don't care. Either way, I'll bow out of this thread.

We are able to slam both religions (within the boundaries of constructive discussion) and that wasn't very hard for me to demonstrate. If you want more, I can direct you to the complete works of Jerry Seinfeld.

So yes, probably a good time to bow out.

[msj]

Oh I'm all for criticizing all religions.

What I'm against is the whining about "they aren't criticized as much as we are and it's unfair" mentality and/or the " they are being defended while we are being persecuted so it is unfair" mentality.

Go to the thread "This week in Islam" and read it.

It is highly critical of Islam since Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas as Sam Harris would say.

As for this thread - as bubber has already pointed out above, that post from earlier in this thread (page 3) that you claim is against all Christians also mentions Muslims in the same light (actually worse since Christians allegedly kill with words while Muslims kill with "their words and hands").

So even the post that you are using to try and claim that Christianity gets bashed worse than Islam fails to prove your point.

Here we are in a thread that is supposed to be about Christian persecution complex and even then people will make claims that Muslims "kill with their words and hands" while Christians only "kill with words."

And the persecution complex is so entrenched that we then have a Christian try and use such a post to claim that Christians are getting bashed worse than Muslims or Muslims are somehow being defended while Christians are not.

Your claim is plainly ridiculous.

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/19801-persecuted-christians-in-america/?p=731525

Christianity is responsible for all kinds of atrocities (yes, so are Muslims, I'm not letting them off the hook either)

Is this supposed to be the example of bias ?

[msj]

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/19801-persecuted-christians-in-america/?p=731525

Is this supposed to be the example of bias ?

Yes that is the post sharkman has referenced.

Looks pretty equal to me - or arguably Muslims get the worst of it as I mention above.

I will also point out that Boges came along at #38 and pointed out that Atheists also commit atrocities.

So the only major groups missing are Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Pastafarians, (and any others I can't think of right now).

Why do those groups not get criticized? Are they being protected?

If I were to start a topic about those nasty Zoroastrians would it end up being deleted so quickly that this is why we never see criticism of that group?

Should I be posting these questions in the moderation thread or are they just meant to be rhetorical?

[Michael Hardner]

Should I be posting these questions in the moderation thread or are they just meant to be rhetorical?

It's ok. As a Rhetorician you're protected.

[dre]

I'm saying that we should be able to slam both religions.

You ARE allowed. Theres hundreds of posts here that do just that.

Watch this...

The abrahamites (jews, muslims, and christians) are idiots with all the critical thinking skills of a busted hacksaw. Abraham himself was a despicable little piece of dung, happy to whore out his own deushe-bag wife. The god of retarded jews, christians and muslims is a murderous, maniacle piece of garbage and all their profits are baby-f&%king pieces of rotten feces. Anyone dumb enough to believe in ANY of this crap should be too embarassed to even leave their homes. In fact... they should just kill themselves so that the median IQ of the human race goes up 30 points.