U.S. F-35 program could be on chopping block

[Guest Derek L]

Inflight refueling is kind of a moot point considering Canada's capacity in that area.

What Smallc said........To add, with NORAD’s expanded mandate to include defending the approaches to North America, coupled with the recent NATO deployments, we’ll also have access to USAF/ANG/NATO assets……The (before mentioned) Canadian way.

[Wilber]

I'm not saying the P-8 is a bad idea but we would have to increase our air to air ability. The number of P-8's that could be kept on extended patrol would be directly related to the number of tankers we had available to refuel them. We may have access to other country's assets but only if they do not require them at the same time.

[Smallc]

We will probably use UAVs and unmanned sensor posts for most patrols.

[Guest Derek L]

I'm not saying the P-8 is a bad idea but we would have to increase our air to air ability. The number of P-8's that could be kept on extended patrol would be directly related to the number of tankers we had available to refuel them. We may have access to other country's assets but only if they do not require them at the same time.

As mentioned by Smallc, a lot of the current doctrine will be rewritten once we start deploying our own UAVs. In that the UAVs will be used for passive surveillance, then once something is located, a manned aircraft to follow-up, prosecute and if need be, attack…….What once required a CP-140 with a crew of ~12 to do, for many instances, the same results will be achieved with a twenty something sitting at a desk in an office with a computer………

[Smallc]

There will also, apparently, be increases in the number of unmanned sensor posts and satellite surveillance.

[Guest Derek L]

There will also, apparently, be increases in the number of unmanned sensor posts and satellite surveillance.

I can see the value in sensor posts (Sonar and search radar) , but satellite surveillance is a very expensive mugs game……Ultimately, visual recognition is ideal.

[waldo]

downgraded orders from allies abound... alternative planes being purchased... cost increases expected due to U.S. Defence Dept. budget cuts. But no biggee, says Harper Conservatives broken record routine!

Political reality may force Tories to change broken record routine on F-35

When it comes to the F-35 fighter jet purchase, the Harper government has become so well-versed in the art of denial, it can’t say yes.

The Pentagon said Monday it will cancel 13 of the Lockheed Martin strike fighters to save $1.6-billion next year. It also proposed delaying the purchase of 179 F-35s beyond 2017 to save billions more.

U.S. allies, many of whom have their own financial problems, have already downgraded their orders for the troubled fighter, which has been plagued with technical problems, delays and cost overruns.

Britain has cut its planned order of 138 F-35s and will not decide until 2015 how many it will buy.

Australia is reviewing its order and is buying 24 Boeing Super-Hornet fighters because of delays to the Lockheed jets.

Turkey has halved its order; Italy is said to be considering cuts of around 30 planes; the Netherlands has put its plan to buy 85 F-35s on hold; and, Norway is waiting until this summer to decide whether to buy more planes to add to the four it purchased last year.

[Smallc]

Actually, since Canada will buy almost no F-35s until 2019, there should be little effect from the US deferment. There will, conceivably, be some effect from the reduced orders from allies, though the bulk of the orders are coming from the US, which hasn't actually reduced their order from 2,443 aircraft.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Smallc

[Guest Derek L]

downgraded orders from allies abound... alternative planes being purchased... cost increases expected due to U.S. Defence Dept. budget cuts. But no biggee, says Harper Conservatives broken record routine!

Political reality may force Tories to change broken record routine on F-35

That took long enough....

14 December 2011 - 07:37 PM

Doubt it……..but I’m waiting for the media and in turn some posters here, to “report” on the “new’ problems associated with the JSF………(Even though I posted a few pages back, these problems are with prototypes and pre-production aircraft, that consequently, production is slowing on)………

“Brace yourself”, for news on relating to the “failure to integrate the (recycled from F-18) tail hook on the “C” version”, A fuel dump that doesn’t completely empty the tanks and problems with the pilots helmet integrated weapons cueing software.

All of which are minor fixes, and far from showstoppers

For next year, the USAF has reduced their purchase of F-35As by 5 aircraft, well the Navy has increased their’s by 3.………

To add, no one politicized Japan’s recent selection of the F-35.…….Of course, that would be off message.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Derek L

[waldo]

guys, guys... 2019 now? What happened to 2016... 17... 18? Give me the straight goods... none of this broken record stuff! Apparently, given F-35 delays, the Aussie steally resolve succumbed to reality... purchasing those 24 Super-Hornets, hey? Reality trumps broken record!

[Smallc]

guys, guys... 2019 now? What happened to 2016.

In 2016, Canada will receive exactly 1 F-35. By 2019, we'll have received 13. They probably won't even start arriving in Canada until 2019, as the earlier ones will probably be used for training in the US.

[Guest Derek L]

guys, guys... 2019 now? What happened to 2016... 17... 18? Give me the straight goods... none of this broken record stuff! Apparently, given F-35 delays, the Aussie steally resolve succumbed to reality... purchasing those 24 Super-Hornets, hey? Reality trumps broken record!

No, the RAAF purchased the Super Hornets to replace their F-111s……..

As for the “length of delivery”, prior to ~2020 we will only have ~12 F-35s for the initial test & establishment flight, followed by a conversion squadron…….in essence, to “train the trainers”.

[waldo]

No, the RAAF purchased the Super Hornets to replace their F-111s……..

not according to John Ivison per the previous NP linked article: "Australia is reviewing its order and is buying 24 Boeing Super-Hornet fighters because of delays to the Lockheed jets"

As for the “length of delivery”, prior to ~2020 we will only have ~12 F-35s for the initial test & establishment flight, followed by a conversion squadron…….in essence, to “train the trainers”.

F-35 boondoggle

The National Post's John Ivison reported on 14 February 2012 that the Harper cabinet has recently discussed cutting the F-35 procurement and ordering armed UAVs instead, although the military dismisses claims that drones can replace the F-35. Ivison indicated that a likely outcome of a review of the Canadian Aerospace Industry by former industry minister David Emerson is the purchase of a combination of Boeing F-18E Super Hornets and UAVs, terming the F-35 "a political millstone"

[Smallc]

not according to John Ivison per the previous NP linked article: "Australia is reviewing its order and is buying 24 Boeing Super-Hornet fighters because of d

Well, that's not the only factual error in that article. The F/A-18 F was bought to replace the F-111. It's that simple. Australia is considering more F/A-18 Fs if the program is delayed for the F-35, as they were planning to buy their F-35s before us, IIRC.

Also, anyone who knows anything wouldn't be discussing replacing a multirole aircraft with a UAV like the predator or reaper.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Smallc

[waldo]

Well, that's not the only factual error in that article. The F/A-18 F was bought to replace the F-111. It's that simple. Australia is considering more F/A-18 Fs if the program is delayed for the F-35, as they were planning to buy their F-35s before us, IIRC.

Also, anyone who knows anything wouldn't be discussing replacing a multirole aircraft with a UAV like the predator or reaper.

interesting... Ivison is the same guy who wrote the UAV article you just linked to. I trust he got that all right, hey?

[Smallc]

interesting... Ivison is the same guy who wrote the UAV article you just linked to. I trust he got that all right, hey?

There are significant problems with the UAV article, and I said so. That said, the project (JUSTAS) does exist, is behind schedule, and so it would make sense if it were finally coming to fruition, at least in part.

[Guest Derek L]

not according to John Ivison per the previous NP linked article: "Australia is reviewing its order and is buying 24 Boeing Super-Hornet fighters because of delays to the Lockheed jets"

F-35 boondoggle

John Ivison is wrong. The RAAF though sharing similar requirements in replacing their Hornet fleet, was in a unique position with their F-111s Aardvarks…….The RAAF F-111s filled a requirement for maritime interdiction and the ability to deter any Indonesian aggression under the “fortress Australia” guise. Once the entire USAF F-111 & EF-111 fleets were retired in the 90s, the cost of maintaining a small bastard fleet of rapidly aging “pigs” became prohibitive for the RAAF, hence the Super Hornet.

Where many are blurring the lines, is in what the Australians will replace their Super Hornets with in the later part of the next decade………The branded around possibilities are a modified version of the F-35C (The carrier version), a long range UCAV, or a 6th generation fighter…..

[Guest Derek L]

interesting... Ivison is the same guy who wrote the UAV article you just linked to. I trust he got that all right, hey?

Ivison is a bozo.

[waldo]

Ivison is a bozo.

then Smallc should avoid linking to him in the future!

[Smallc]

There weren't really any stories to choose from.

[Guest Derek L]

then Smallc should avoid linking to him in the future!

Hence my first response in the UCAV thread.

[Guest Derek L]

Where’s the outrage?

JSF Chief Engineer: F-35 Military Flight Release To Happen Soon

The Pentagon’s stealthy tri-service F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is making progress with a military flight release expected soon, the program’s chief engineer said. But software development and problems with the jet’s helmet mounted display are still major challenges.

As I suggested several months back........

That means that the Air Force is satisfied that its version of the aircraft, the F-35A, is safe to fly. It also means that the Air Force understands and accepts the risks where there are gaps in the jet’s compliance with service airworthiness regulations, Ebersole said. He said he can’t predict when the Air Force will issue a formal military flight release, but that it should happen soon.

The U.S. Navy’s Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) has also cleared its LRIP-2 jets to operate at Fort Worth, where the planes are built, but the sea service requires an additional independent safety audit before fleet pilots are allowed to fly the aircraft, Ebersole said. “We expect that to happen in the mid-to-late March timeframe. Probably late March,” he said.

If that happens, it would mean that Marine pilots, who fall under NAVAIR’s purview, will be able to start training along side their Air Force brethren in their F-35B model jets next month.

Initially, qualified F-35 test pilots will fly local area operations to exercise the aircraft and the maintenance setup at the Florida base. Operational pilots will be able to start training after that is completed.

In other words, Lockheed is handing over flight operations from their own test pilots to US Air force, Navy and Marine flight crews.

Flights at Eglin will be starting in no small part due to the performance of the F-35A, which has had no major developmental hiccups. “When I look at the CTOL [conventional take-off and landing], it’s actually performing pretty well,” Ebersole said. “There is nothing like the tailhook or what we worked through last year with the STOVL [short take-off vertical landing],” he said. The jet is progressing well in tests at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., and has started to perform engine restarts in flight. Already the Edwards test pilots have performed seven such engine re-lights, Ebersole said.

The version Canada is buying.......

The Navy’s C-model is also performing well with the exception the recently discovered tailhook problem. “The tailhook is the only thing that really has come to light,” Ebersole said.

The likewise, the F-35B is also progressing well, he said. But two major issues worry Ebersole.

“I worry about software development — meeting the incremental block deliveries, and the other key one right now is the helmet,” he said. “But we’ve made good progress on the helmet in the last year.”

Hmmm problems with the tailhook and helmet......problems pointed out (by me) back in Dec......Why isn't the MSM jumping up and down?

One Navy source had raised concerns that beyond the Block 3 software needed for initial operational capability, the current avionics architecture would not be able support the level inoperability and information sharing that the U.S. services require — which would necessitate a redesign of the avionics.

Again, these are problems associated with prototypes and low rate pre-production aircraft……

Edited February 26, 2012 by Derek L

[waldo]

prices to rise..... even more if Japan pulls the pin, hey?

[eyeball]

Why don't we get the Chinese to build these stupid jets and save everyone a bundle?

[Guest Derek L]

prices to rise..... even more if Japan pulls the pin, hey?

It’s a negotiation tactic……The Japanese are trying to get concisions from Lockheed and the US Government that will allow Japanese industry the ability to bid on production of sub-systems. In other words, the same “privileges” afforded to tier I, II and III partners……..In all reality, the Japanese have no other choice to replace their ancient Phantoms…….The production lines for the Super Hornet, F-16 and Eurofighter will all be closing in the next couple of years.

Most of this stems from the Japanese constitution that disallows them from becoming directly involved in International arms deals and exporting weapons abroad……..Lockheed knows that in all actuality, allowing Japanese electronic/software companies into the consortium will in of itself drive production costs down.

It’s simply crossing the “T’s” and dotting the “I’s”………