Michael Hardner Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 What about downtown congestion ? Why isn't anybody offering anything there. The subways will be beyond the breaking point in 5 years and we will have nothing but finger pointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 What about downtown congestion ? Why isn't anybody offering anything there. The subways will be beyond the breaking point in 5 years and we will have nothing but finger pointing. Well that's just it: the point of Transit City was to improve transit in those parts of the city that are currently under served. Ford's plan provides less service for more money and will continue to suck precious transit dollars away from system-wide improvements. On this issue more than any other, the guy is fucking clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Well that's just it: the point of Transit City was to improve transit in those parts of the city that are currently under served. Ford's plan provides less service for more money and will continue to suck precious transit dollars away from system-wide improvements. Yes, so in agreeing with me you had to add a profanity ? Do you know that profanity is against the rules here ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yes, so in agreeing with me you had to add a profanity ? Do you know that profanity is against the rules here ? I don't see that anywhere in the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't see that anywhere in the rules. I think you're right. I'm confused... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yeah, ironically profanity is not there, but you can't call Paul Martin Mr. Dithers or the Conservatives "cons". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yeah, ironically profanity is not there, but you can't call Paul Martin Mr. Dithers or the Conservatives "cons". Or the Ontario Premier McLiar or Daddy Dalton. I swear I've seen His Lardness used to describe Rob Ford though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Anthony Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yes, profanity is against the rules. Next silly question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yes, profanity is against the rules. Next silly question? I have one: where does it say that in the rules? There's rules against insults, but the rules and guidelines are silent on profanity qua profanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalfloss Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) This Stintz really is an ignoramus. A new Toronto transit proposal delivers more bang for the $8.2 billion buck A new transit proposal from TTC chair Karen Stintz that would kick-start construction on three new transit lines using already-committed provincial dollars was gaining support Tuesday among councillors, particularly those in the increasingly powerful political middle. “If we can come to a resolution on this we can proceed quite quickly,” said Stintz, councillor for Eglinton-Lawrence. The plan would provide transit to tens of thousands more TTC riders than the existing understanding between Queen’s Park and Mayor Rob Ford. Instead of allocating $8.2 billion in provincial funds to tunnel the entire length of the Eglinton light rail line, the transit would run above-ground east of Laird Dr., freeing up between $1.5 billion and $2 billion for other projects. The savings could then be applied to bus rapid transit on Finch, where it would improve service to the city’s underserved northwest until funding to install light rail is there. A new Toronto transit proposal delivers more bang for the $8.2 billion buck Edited January 25, 2012 by mentalfloss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) This Stintz really is an ignoramus. A new Toronto transit proposal delivers more bang for the $8.2 billion buck A new transit proposal from TTC chair Karen Stintz that would kick-start construction on three new transit lines using already-committed provincial dollars was gaining support Tuesday among councillors, particularly those in the increasingly powerful political middle. “If we can come to a resolution on this we can proceed quite quickly,” said Stintz, councillor for Eglinton-Lawrence. The plan would provide transit to tens of thousands more TTC riders than the existing understanding between Queen’s Park and Mayor Rob Ford. Instead of allocating $8.2 billion in provincial funds to tunnel the entire length of the Eglinton light rail line, the transit would run above-ground east of Laird Dr., freeing up between $1.5 billion and $2 billion for other projects. The savings could then be applied to bus rapid transit on Finch, where it would improve service to the city’s underserved northwest until funding to install light rail is there. A new Toronto transit proposal delivers more bang for the $8.2 billion buck Yup she is. Light rail is for second class cities, not a first class city like Toronto growing exponentially. Laird drive is barely a few blocks east of Yonge street. By the time this project is completed, that area could be packed with condos given the proclivity for developers to build along public transit lines (not to mention that Toronto has the highest rate of condo development in NA). Furthermore, sprawling metropolitan areas are extremely inefficient. This is a large part of the reason why Toronto is in a deficit. A subway line along Eglinton creates a huge incentive for developers to focus development on the metro and Scarborough area. Btw was it the Star who decided that the lefty councillors were suddenly "the powerful political middle"? Edited January 25, 2012 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalfloss Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Btw was it the Star who decided that the lefty councillors were suddenly "the powerful political middle"? No idea, but the Star isn't the only one getting behind the idea: Street-level transit plan gains traction - National Post Compromise would bring leg of Eglinton LRT back to street level - Globe and Mail TTC may be forced to reverse some cuts - Toronto Sun Oh wait.. that last one doesn't mention the proposition.. Gee.. I wonder why. Edited January 25, 2012 by mentalfloss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 No idea, but the Star isn't the only one getting behind the idea: Street-level transit plan gains traction - National Post Compromise would bring leg of Eglinton LRT back to street level - Globe and Mail TTC may be forced to reverse some cuts - Toronto Sun Oh wait.. that last one doesn't mention the proposition.. Gee.. I wonder why. The lefty media has started to manufacture consensus I see. Will you at least 'baaaa' for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 TTC may be forced to reverse some cuts. hahaha what a ridculous title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Yup she is. Light rail is for second class cities, not a first class city like Toronto growing exponentially. Second class cities like Paris, London, San Fransisco, Berlin.... Laird drive is barely a few blocks east of Yonge street. By the time this project is completed, that area could be packed with condos given the proclivity for developers to build along public transit lines (not to mention that Toronto has the highest rate of condo development in NA). Bolded for emphasis. Furthermore, sprawling metropolitan areas are extremely inefficient. This is a large part of the reason why Toronto is in a deficit. A subway line along Eglinton creates a huge incentive for developers to focus development on the metro and Scarborough area. Except there's no subway proposed for Eglinton. Shoving a LRT line underground doesn't make it a subway. The lefty media has started to manufacture consensus I see. Will you at least 'baaaa' for them? The lefty media like the NaPo and the Sun? I suppose your idea of fair and unbiased, centrist media is what, Der Sturmer? Edited January 26, 2012 by Black Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalfloss Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) The lefty media like the NaPo and the Sun? I suppose your idea of fair and unbiased, centrist media is what, Der Sturmer? Exactly. He's shown his stripes. I can't blame him though, considering anyone who disagrees with Ford is now left of Stalin, including members of his own executive committee! Councillor Michelle Berardinetti, a member of the Ford executive who initially expressed support for modifying the plan, is unsure of her position now because of conflicting information over whether the money saved would be put to Sheppard. “I’m just hearing two different stories,” she said. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/25/im-building-subways-rob-ford/ Edited January 26, 2012 by mentalfloss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Ford doubles down on Eglinton, confirms he has no idea what he's talking about With clear indications that a new transit proposal is working its way through city council offices and gathering support, Mayor Rob Ford set the stage for a face-off over putting tracks down the middle of suburban Eglinton Avenue.“It’s the taxpayers in Scarborough. They were quite clear during my election that they want subways, and I represent what the taxpayers want and that’s what we’re going to continue to do,” Mayor Ford told the National Post after he launched the Mayor’s Ball for the Toronto Arts Foundation. ... “Scarborough residents voted me in to build subways and I’m building subways,” the Mayor reiterated. “I’ll do exactly what the provincial government wants to do. Last time I checked they’re going to build subways. It’s started, it’s going, and I do what the taxpayers of Scarborough want … not above ground.” A buried LRT is not a subway. It's really the worst of both worlds. Hideously expensive like subways, but slower and with lower capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Ford doubles down on Eglinton, confirms he has no idea what he's talking about A buried LRT is not a subway. It's really the worst of both worlds. Hideously expensive like subways, but slower and with lower capacity. Who says there will be LRTs underground? Edited January 27, 2012 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 The lefty media like the NaPo and the Sun? I suppose your idea of fair and unbiased, centrist media is what, Der Sturmer? If you'd bother to read the post I quoted, you'd see that the Sun didn't mention the proposition. I don't think there are any unbiased media. I wouldn't classify NaPo as right wing anymore though... it is probably the closest to a centrist paper that we've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Who says there will be LRTs underground? Who says that? The initial TransitCity plan for the Eglinton LRT called for it to run underground from Keele to Laird. The current Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown project (what Mayor Ford signed on) is for light rail transit, going underground from Black Creek Road to the Kennedy Station (link). Kren Stinz's proposal is to have the Crosstown LRT be underground from Black Creek to just east of Laird, then surface from there to Scarborough (link). From Day 1, the plan has always been to have the downtown part of the Eglinton LRT to be underground. Edited January 27, 2012 by CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Light rail is for second class cities Over the past 15-20 years, LRT lines have been built in Los Angeles, Paris, London, Shanghai, to name only four second class cities. Edited January 27, 2012 by CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) What I think we need to do. First: The Crosstown LRT needs to be above groud from Don Mills or Leslie eastbound, underground westbound from there to Back Creek Road. Eglinton is wide enough to accommodate it. Two: Forget about expending the Shepard subway, It will be a waste of money, that will do nothing for transit in toronto other than make it more difficult to fund other projects. Besides, Mayor Ford's claim that the private sector will rush with funding commitments is being proven wrong. Three: Right now, find a solution to the Finch transit problem. Either a busway or LRT. Four: Once the tunelling work is finished on the York University extension, start work on the one subway line we do need the most: a new downtown line (I hate the term relief). From the east end (Greenwood?) to Queen Street, then either under Queen (likns with the existing subway at Queen and Osgoode) or under the Esplanade to Union Station and the Rogers Centre, then to Exhibition Place and along the rail corridor (or under Roncesvalles) to Dundas West Station. Could be done in two stages (first to downtown, then to Dundas West). Five: We need additional capacity on Yonge. Paris' RER sounds like a good model for this, or an express subway under the current one. Once again, could be done in stages (first from Eglinton to downtown, then to Sheppart, then to Steeles - if a RER, future expension in York Region). That's five projects that need to be started between now and 2020. After that? - expending the Crosstown line to the Airport, and east to the Zoo - RER-like lines replacing GO, on the Lakeshore (between Oakville and Pickering or Oshawa) first, next on the Richmond Hill line and from downtown to Cooksville - LRT: Malvern and Jane lines from the Transit City plan What we need above all is that, once we decide on a given transist extension and done all the assessments, we start the work right away and we do not go back. Edited January 27, 2012 by CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalfloss Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Mayor Ford’s Facebook page misinterprets Pembina’s transit analysis While it’s true that a subway has the capacity to carry more riders than light rail transit (LRT) along Sheppard, our study shows that it would also cost about four times as much. Our study also shows that the population density along Sheppard is more suitable for an LRT; even based on projected growth it is unlikely that the full capacity of subway along Sheppard would be reached. Furthermore, the entire LRT plan would have served more Torontonians per dollar invested than the mayor’s current plan as well as reducing more greenhouse gas emissions and removing more vehicles from our severely congested streets. When crunching the numbers from the table above on per dollar invested basis, comparing the mayor’s current plan with the former LRT proposal: - brings rapid transit to less than half as many Torontonians as the former LRT plan per dollar invested; - serves 30 per cent fewer low-income residents despite costing 40 per cent more; and - removes fewer vehicles from traffic congestion per dollar invested. Mayor Ford’s current plan has additional shortcomings: - it does not include Finch, which is currently the busiest bus route in Toronto; - it leaves out the north-west region of Toronto, which has the highest low-income population and the worst access to rapid transit; and - it leaves out a guaranteed rapid transit line for Sheppard, since it is no longer included in the provincial budget and the private financing strategy being pursued cannot guarantee success. http://www.pembina.org/blog/606 Edited January 27, 2012 by mentalfloss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) OK, that's not directly linked to the TTC, but what about the rest of the GTA? Mississauga and Brampton are working on an LRT project that would go from the Brampton GO Station through Cooksville to the lakeshore. Sounds great to me. Would be even better if there was a link from that line to the Airport. There have been talks about busways along thre 403 and 407. Sound like good ideas, but I am not sure if that would be sufficient. Let's not forget that Peel Region has a population of over 1000000 people. Also, we need a rapid transit connection in the north end from Oshawa to Brampton, linking suburbs. Viva plans for bus rapidways along highway 7 (with possibility of LRT at a later point) look like a good start; would be great if linked to the Brampton transit system and expended to reach downtown Pickering. There are also talks of a busway (eventually, LRT) along Highway 2 between Oshawa and Pickering. If that comes true, should be expended (or linked) to either a busway or LRT along the 401. any thoughts? Edited January 27, 2012 by CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Who says there will be LRTs underground? The mayor. Do try and keep up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.