Boges Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 This is why it's imperative for the Minority government to be maintained. TORONTO — Ontario's New Democrats will bring in a private member's bill in an effort to get the provincial portion of the HST removed from home heating bills.New Democrat Michael Mantha will introduce the bill when the legislature resumes sitting next week. He says the bill will save families $100 a year. It would also cost the government $350 million in lost revenues. Private member's bills rarely become law, but NDP Leader Andrea Horwath says she hopes that will change under the current minority government. She's also hoping the Progressive Conservatives will support the bill, since they also had promised to tackle rising home heating bills during the election campaign. Horwath did not approach Tory Leader Tim Hudak to co-sponsor the bill, but he says he'd support such a bill as long as the relief is immediate. The Liberals can't really stop this motion. It's not a confidence motion either so if the Opposition are going to gang up on the Liberals for legislation like this. I'm all for it. Quote
The_Squid Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 I don't think that it is a bad idea... but the money is going to have to come from somewhere. Gas tax increase? Income tax increase? Service cuts? What should replace this lost revenue? Quote
Boges Posted November 14, 2011 Author Report Posted November 14, 2011 I don't think that it is a bad idea... but the money is going to have to come from somewhere. Gas tax increase? Income tax increase? Service cuts? What should replace this lost revenue? Well the revenue is only 2 years old max. You'd think all the efficiencies made by merging the taxes would make up the difference. Or at least that's what we were told by Daddy Dalton. It's not a tax cut as much as going back to the way things were, Pre-July 2010. And only regarding one or two things people use. Quote
The_Squid Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 Well the revenue is only 2 years old max. You'd think all the efficiencies made by merging the taxes would make up the difference. Or at least that's what we were told by Daddy Dalton. It's not a tax cut as much as going back to the way things were, Pre-July 2010. And only regarding one or two things people use. Don't you think those efficiencies would have been included in the calculations? It will cost money to do this.... where should taxes be increased to pay for it? Quote
Boges Posted November 14, 2011 Author Report Posted November 14, 2011 Don't you think those efficiencies would have been included in the calculations? It will cost money to do this.... what should be cut to pay for it? FTFY. Quote
The_Squid Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 FTFY. Pardon? I hate acronyms. Quote
Boges Posted November 14, 2011 Author Report Posted November 14, 2011 Pardon? I hate acronyms. It means "Fixed that for you" If you noticed I changed your quote. Internet immmaturity. Quote
The_Squid Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 ah... I don't like it when people do that either..... what should be cut to pay for it? Quote
Boges Posted November 14, 2011 Author Report Posted November 14, 2011 ah... I don't like it when people do that either..... what should be cut to pay for it? Something. I think the Provincial government is massively bloated. They have a 19 billion deficit, so things will have to be cut. It'll be interesting to see how this debate shapes. Both the Right and Left of the house agree on this issue. Quote
Wild Bill Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 Don't you think those efficiencies would have been included in the calculations? It will cost money to do this.... where should taxes be increased to pay for it? Why do we have to increase taxes? Couldn't we spend less? How about a bit less in subsidies for that financial sinkhole of Toronto? Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
MiddleClassCentrist Posted November 15, 2011 Report Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) The article says heating only. If the NDP and CONS want it, they can pass it. Politically a win-win for the opposition. - They cut off revenue forcing the Liberals to make potentially unpopular cuts. - They gain positive view of lowering the bills of regular people. Edited November 15, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
charter.rights Posted November 15, 2011 Report Posted November 15, 2011 This is why it's imperative for the Minority government to be maintained. The Liberals can't really stop this motion. It's not a confidence motion either so if the Opposition are going to gang up on the Liberals for legislation like this. I'm all for it. McGuinty will take a page out of Harper's book and simply ignore the implementation of the law and then declare it redundant. So the opposition motion is simply political grandstanding. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
Boges Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Posted November 15, 2011 The article says heating only. It does, but they want to find a way to do the same with Hydro. Electricity is cheaper than heating fuel anyway. I guess if this motion passes, people with shitteh baseboard heaters are SOL. Quote
olp1fan Posted November 15, 2011 Report Posted November 15, 2011 The article says heating only. If the NDP and CONS want it, they can pass it. All Mcguinty needs is one other person to block the passage of the bill Quote
Boges Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Posted November 15, 2011 All Mcguinty needs is one other person to block the passage of the bill No Shit. Got anymore insightful commentary on said issue? Quote
mentalfloss Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) No Shit. Got anymore insightful commentary on said issue? Quick q: is this a whipped vote? Edited November 16, 2011 by mentalfloss Quote
Boges Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Posted November 16, 2011 Quick q: is this a whipped vote? I'd imagine Daddy Dalton would whip the vote if he's truly against it. Hudak has already said he's not going to whip the vote. Since it's an NDP motion I'd imagine they'd all fall in line. Quote
MiddleClassCentrist Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 I'd imagine Daddy Dalton would whip the vote if he's truly against it. Hudak has already said he's not going to whip the vote. Since it's an NDP motion I'd imagine they'd all fall in line. He can't vote for it, then he'd have no one to blame for the additional 350million dollar shortfall. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Boges Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Posted November 17, 2011 Apparently it is a none issue. The government can choose which bills get brought forward for final reading, they clearly won't choose this one. It is a good way to make the government look bad. And give election fuel for next time. Dalton refused to yield to the will of majority of Ontarians by not taking the HST off high heating fuel costs. He clearly hates Ontario! Quote
charter.rights Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 I'd imagine Daddy Dalton would whip the vote if he's truly against it. Hudak has already said he's not going to whip the vote. Since it's an NDP motion I'd imagine they'd all fall in line. He doesn;t need to. All he has to do is ignore it and never let it get to final reading. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
Mr.Canada Posted November 19, 2011 Report Posted November 19, 2011 This is a good bill that the PC's should revamp and adopt as their own. In all seriousness it makes good sense to me and I can only hope that the PC's will support it. I'm told they will indeed support this bill. Home heating is a necessity of life here in Canada and it shouldn't be included in the HST. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
charter.rights Posted November 19, 2011 Report Posted November 19, 2011 This is a good bill that the PC's should revamp and adopt as their own. In all seriousness it makes good sense to me and I can only hope that the PC's will support it. I'm told they will indeed support this bill. Home heating is a necessity of life here in Canada and it shouldn't be included in the HST. It is a non-issue. The Liberals don't support it and since it can't come up for final reading without their support it will die in oblivion....just like Hudak will..... Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
Shwa Posted November 19, 2011 Report Posted November 19, 2011 It is a non-issue. The Liberals don't support it and since it can't come up for final reading without their support it will die in oblivion....just like Hudak will..... Hudak who? Quote
tducey82 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 It's a good idea that will save Ontario consumers money, we have a similar system here in Newfoundland which has been met with rave reviews. Quote
William Ashley Posted November 27, 2011 Report Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) I don't like taxes period. "So if this can be breeched without suffering penalties for breach of contract. Why not take the money and run by removing all HST? Reintorucing a new tax bill if they require it. It sounds like this just going to increase expenses. The real solution is introducing a low income rebating for people of low income to cover their basoc cost such as heat or subsidize only low income people suffering hardship due to high heating costs If hst can be adjusted without breach of the federal deal reduce everything to 0% and introduce a new tax but in reality my tax system is far better as it is tax for those with money not those without, and not based on income but wealth, providing people pay down their debts, a debt tax is needed though until public debt is removed the government could also introduce a provincial geothermal venting program also to provide communities geothermal vents to remove the need for energy at the rate it is now. Drill holes in cities groud for geothermal. There are relativeky wealthy single home owners doing this but it could be done on a community / block etc., basis.. these steps will reduce heating costs AND upgrade infrastructure.. not just this year but every year.. we need fiscally responsible solutions. Going in debt is not one, the only type of going under that should be done is to implement a home infrastructure development program to monopolize on natural heat everyting rolled out into communities of the province. It is a horible oversight that the sewage system hasn't been incorporated into a heat exchange system to provide heat exchange loops, to provide natural heating and cooling of homes, Tthe public needs to realize that just cutting taxes is not the answer you need to solve the problem that put the taxes there in the first place. there are tons of options for community programs that should channal these hst costs to actually save people money. http://www.unitedpowerenergy.com/FREE-Waste-Water-Geothermal.html http://www.novathermalenergy.com/ better yet put the unemployed and welfare type to work providing the labour.. and community service orders. Edited November 27, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
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