bush_cheney2004 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Few will shed a tear for Gaddaffy as the number of mass grave bodies begins to add up. The oh so righteous who wanted a show trial before the ICC will just have to wait for another circus to come to town. They should have thought of that before unleashing the dogs of war with a UN blessing. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
wyly Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Dead men tell no truths. This benefits NATO because putting Gadhafi on trial would expose some of the atrocities NATO committed against Libya and Libyans. doubtful...the trial would've been on his record during his years in leadership not nato's... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
DogOnPorch Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Dead men tell no truths. This benefits NATO because putting Gadhafi on trial would expose some of the atrocities NATO committed against Libya and Libyans. Such as? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Few will shed a tear for Gaddaffy as the number of mass grave bodies begins to add up. The oh so righteous who wanted a show trial before the ICC will just have to wait for another circus to come to town. They should have thought of that before unleashing the dogs of war with a UN blessing. Yes indeed the bodies piled up. More people killed by NATO humanitarian bombs than by Gadhafi's forces. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Yes indeed the bodies piled up. More people killed by NATO humanitarian bombs than by Gadhafi's forces. Any evidence that this is true? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Any evidence that this is true? No...quite the opposite (as you already know): http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-09-25/libya-mass-grave/50544676/1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 No...quite the opposite (as you already know): http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-09-25/libya-mass-grave/50544676/1 Indeed. I'm just hoping that the damn Zionists get the hell out of Gaza. Right GH? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Indeed. I'm just hoping that the damn Zionists get the hell out of Gaza. Right GH? Well, the Americans are leaving Iraq as promised by Bush/Obama. Maybe that counts? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Such as? 1 - bombing a country back to the stone age, creating a humanitarian crisis. Stealing from the Libyans, giving money and the gold to these terrorist rebels who had elements on Al-Queda among them. All this because Gadhafi wanted to sell oil in another currency than the US dollar. Libyans WERE free, and it seems they were also DEBT free. Yeah I know, wikipedia .. but. . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Libya http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Libya Such an evil man right? Quote
GostHacked Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Indeed. I'm just hoping that the damn Zionists get the hell out of Gaza. Right GH? Again, we see the dishonesty in how you portray yourself on MLW. I have been corrected, but yet this is tossed out as something to keep tossing out. Like it has any relevance now. So, yeah go on, keep it up. Show us your true colours. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 1 - bombing a country back to the stone age, creating a humanitarian crisis. Stealing from the Libyans, giving money and the gold to these terrorist rebels who had elements on Al-Queda among them. All this because Gadhafi wanted to sell oil in another currency than the US dollar. Libyans WERE free, and it seems they were also DEBT free. Yeah I know, wikipedia .. but. . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Libya http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Libya Such an evil man right? So your saying you don't have any real examples? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
ToadBrother Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Dead men tell no truths. This benefits NATO because putting Gadhafi on trial would expose some of the atrocities NATO committed against Libya and Libyans. Do you actually think Gaddafi would have somehow been some nice compliant defendant? Do you think he would have revealed any truths? The man was a megalomaniacal liar. He would have made Milosevic and Hussein look like model defendants. I'm sure he would have accused NATO of everything from the death a bazillion Libyans to the high price of bananas. The Libyan rebels wanted and bloody well needed the air support. Yes, civilians would get killed, as they have since the dawn of time. That's something the Libyan rebels knew. And yet, for all of that, they're dancing in the bloody streets right now, and Libyan ex-pats the world over are joining them. Wars suck, and no kind of war sucks more than a civil war. I can't imagine any sensible rational human being thinking "Well, Gaddafi's fall sure wasn't worth it", when this mad dog dictator had been responsible for all sorts of violent acts inside and outside of Libya during his four decade reign of terror. I personally think he got off easy, as compared to how guys like Mussolini ended up. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Again, we see the dishonesty in how you portray yourself on MLW. I have been corrected, but yet this is tossed out as something to keep tossing out. Like it has any relevance now. So, yeah go on, keep it up. Show us your true colours. GH: I did not pay attention in school very much at all. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 GH: I did not pay attention in school very much at all. And that is relevant now how? I still got that bag of treats for you if you are interested. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 And that is relevant now how? I still got that bag of treats for you if you are interested. That it is understandable that you'd think Israeli running dogs occupy Gaza or that NATO forces carpet bombed Libyan civilian areas w/o discrimination. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
maple_leafs182 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Do you actually think Gaddafi would have somehow been some nice compliant defendant? Do you think he would have revealed any truths? The man was a megalomaniacal liar. He would have made Milosevic and Hussein look like model defendants. I'm sure he would have accused NATO of everything from the death a bazillion Libyans to the high price of bananas. The Libyan rebels wanted and bloody well needed the air support. Yes, civilians would get killed, as they have since the dawn of time. That's something the Libyan rebels knew. And yet, for all of that, they're dancing in the bloody streets right now, and Libyan ex-pats the world over are joining them. Wars suck, and no kind of war sucks more than a civil war. I can't imagine any sensible rational human being thinking "Well, Gaddafi's fall sure wasn't worth it", when this mad dog dictator had been responsible for all sorts of violent acts inside and outside of Libya during his four decade reign of terror. I personally think he got off easy, as compared to how guys like Mussolini ended up. Qaddafi's fall sure wasn't worth it, I feel the same about Saddam. I hate these people telling me how I should feel. Random fact, Qaddafi wasn't even really his name, that was his tribes name. Quote │ _______ [███STOP███]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ :::::::--------------Conservatives beleive ▄▅█FUNDING THIS█▅▄▃▂- - - - - --- -- -- -- -------- Liberals lie I██████████████████] ...◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙'(='.'=)' ⊙
jbg Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Not terribly nice, but guys like Gaddafi, once captured by those they abused, cannot expect a nice tidy prison cell and three squares a day. All in all, I'm surprised the rebels were that gentle. I had fully expected that if he were cornered, the abuse would have gone on a lot longer. His end wasn't all that different from Mussolini or Ceausescu, and I don't exactly here people wailing and gnashing their teeth about how those guys went down. Tale of two executions, and one resignation from office: 1) Adolph Eichmann's Trial and Execution Israeli Public Coldly Silent on Eichmann Hanging (Excerpt, link to June 2, 1962 Article) By LAWRENCE FELLOWS JERUSALEM (Israeli Sector), June 1 The Israeli public reacted with cold silence this morning to the execution of Adolph Eichmann. The- former Nazi officer convicted by an Israeli court of having arranged the transportation of of millions of Jews to death camps was hanged in RamIe Prison two minutes before midnight last night. His remains were cremated before dawn this morning. ************** His trial began April 11, 1961, 1before three judges of the Jerusalem District Court. He was found guilty on Dec. 15, 1961, and sentenced to be hanged. He was defended by Dr. Robert iServatius, a West German lawyer. 2) The Nixon Resignation Reactions Range From Elation and Rclief to Despair, Published August 9, 1974 (Excerpt, link to article). With emotions ranging from bitter. elation. and relief , to despair, Amencans responded yesterday to the news of President Nlxon's resignation. "I'm relIeved," said John WatlIngton, a 63-year-old businessman In Winston-Salem N. C. "I'm glad to see the trauma fmally coming to an end." 3) Ghaddafi's Capture and Killing In Surt, Chronicle of a Death Foretold (Excerpt, Link to Article, October 20, 2011) He found moments of wild fury in the casing-covered streets, as fighters unleashed their assault rifles in every direction. One shows a man emerging from a sewer hole [slide 14]. In another, a fighter takes a cigarette break, his R.P.G.s poking out from behind his head like a childs backpack load [slide 16]. A sniper shoots through a hole in a wall as a comrade in the corner snaps his picture [slide 7]. Mr. Lima was also close enough to document when Qaddafi loyalists fell or tried to flee. In one haunting image, the street is littered with the uniforms loyalists had shed in a futile attempt to avoid capture or death. In another, a hapless man is in custody, still clutching an attaché case and a bulging black garbage bag, insisting this was not his battle. The point of this is to illustrate that there is no equivalence. Certain peoples in this part of the world are savage, no if, ands or buts. Others deal with serious problems concerning past leaders, and move on. Edited October 21, 2011 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
GostHacked Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 That it is understandable that you'd think Israeli running dogs occupy Gaza or that NATO forces carpet bombed Libyan civilian areas w/o discrimination. Hey I was corrected on it for what .. the 20th time now? How much more of a troll do you want to be? Show us your true colours!! Damn these doggy snacks look pretty good .. maybe I'll keep them for myself. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) The point of this is to illustrate that there is no equivalence. Certain peoples in this part of the world are savage, no if, ands or buts. Others deal with serious problems concerning past leaders, and move on. My point is that if you're a brutal dictator, and your regime falls, don't expect much mercy. What happened to Gaddafi isn't any different than what happened to Mussolini and Ceausescu, both of which met their ends very badly indeed. We can debate all day whether, in all these cases, a proper trial would have been better. Mussolini might have got one if he had surrendered to the Allies, but the Ceausescus, well, they had no one to surrender to at all. Consider the Ceausescus. They had a summary show trial and then were promptly taken out back and shot. By any normal standard they did not receive proper judicial treatment, and yet would you care to debate that they deserved anything more than what they got, considering the ruthless merciless regime they ran? Gaddafi had every chance early on to get the hell out of Libya. Yes, he couldn't run to Saudi Arabia, because the Saudis loathed the man, but he had friends in Africa, in particular in Niger, where some of his regime, including one of his sons, are now under "house arrest" in very posh circumstances indeed. He had enough gold and hard currency at his immediate disposal that he could have set up shop and lived out the rest of his days. He had to have known the minute that China and Russia abstained from the Security Council vote that the deal was sealed and his day was done. Instead, the "mad dog" decided that he would go down with his regime, and even worse, when it became obvious that he could never get across the border, he didn't put the bullet in his head himself. Like I said, Hitler had the good sense to realize that if the Soviets took him alive, his end would be horrible, so he spared himself that much. Edited October 21, 2011 by ToadBrother Quote
Bob Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Again, we see the dishonesty in how you portray yourself on MLW. I have been corrected, but yet this is tossed out as something to keep tossing out. Like it has any relevance now. So, yeah go on, keep it up. Show us your true colours. There's no need for DogOnPorch to harp on that, anymore, I agree. Now we can laugh at you for being "sure" that Canada (and other countries other than the USA) sends foreign aid to Israel. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again!
BubberMiley Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 The point of this is to illustrate that there is no equivalence. Certain peoples in this part of the world are savage, no if, ands or buts. Others deal with serious problems concerning past leaders, and move on. No, the point of this is to justify your hatred of "certain peoples" with such a poor argument I am having a hard time believing you make a living as a lawyer. How come you didn't mention Mussolini or Ceauşescu? Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
jbg Posted October 22, 2011 Report Posted October 22, 2011 No, the point of this is to justify your hatred of "certain peoples" with such a poor argument I am having a hard time believing you make a living as a lawyer. How come you didn't mention Mussolini or Ceauşescu? Were they ripped to shreds alive? If so I should have and you have a point. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
ToadBrother Posted October 22, 2011 Report Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) Were they ripped to shreds alive? If so I should have and you have a point. Gaddafi isn't ripped to shreds. Maybe you should actually look at some of the video out there, there's no lack of it, since every Libyan with about 500 miles of Sirte is taking pictures and video. The rebels are treating his body better than Italian patriots did Mussolini. You're letting your imagination write instead of your eyes. Let's face, jbg, the fact is that tyrants often die brutal deaths. Caesar was stabbed twenty three times. Mussolini was shot and hung up for public display (along with his mistress). Ceausescu was given a show trial and then he and his wife were taken outside and shot. If you think the Libyan rebels were brutal, here's an account of what happened to Mussolini's body from Wikipedia: After being shot, kicked, and spat upon, the bodies were hung upside down on meathooks from the roof of an Esso gas station. The bodies were then stoned by civilians from below. This was done both to discourage any Fascists from continuing the fight and as an act of revenge for the hanging of many partisans in the same place by Axis authorities. I think Gaddafi did rather well, which goes to show, I suppose, better to be an ex-dictator in Libya than Italy. The Italians have an interesting history of dispatching tyrants, actually. Edited October 22, 2011 by ToadBrother Quote
jbg Posted October 22, 2011 Report Posted October 22, 2011 I did concede to Bubber Miley he may have a point. I forgot about Mussolini and Ceacescu (sp). On the other hand, Israel, that supposed den of iniquity, conducted a rather fair trial of a Nazi leader despite the fact that only seventeen years had elapsed since the German defeat. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
GostHacked Posted October 22, 2011 Report Posted October 22, 2011 There's no need for DogOnPorch to harp on that, anymore, I agree. Now we can laugh at you for being "sure" that Canada (and other countries other than the USA) sends foreign aid to Israel. Hey I was willing to let you school me on it with facts, but you failed on that as well. I am willing to learn and both of you are failing. Quote
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