Shipbuilding contracts

[Derek 2.0]

The government committed to new ships as part of the NSPS. The interim option may be sacrificed as a result.

The only being sacrificed is a critical capability for the RCN. The Liberals committed, as you've noted numerous times, to keeping a "blue-water" navy......this is a funny way to go about that.

[Derek 2.0]

For those of us keeping score at home, just when did Canada build and commission its last ship...in a Canadian shipyard ?

Technically the Halifax class, but we did procure the Orca class training vessels a decade ago, but they aren't commissioned naval vessels.

[bush_cheney2004]

Technically the Halifax class, but we did procure the Orca class training vessels a decade ago, but they aren't commissioned naval vessels.

Wow...the last Halifax class hull was commissioned 19 years ago (1996). John Lennon wrote about this....It'll be just like starting over.

[SpankyMcFarland]

It was not. We could have had far more ship for far less.

That is certainly my impression too.

[Derek 2.0]

Wow...the last Halifax class hull was commissioned 19 years ago (1996). John Lennon wrote about this....It'll be just like starting over.

He also sung a song about an item that the RCN will need, but the Liberal Government doesn't have for them.........

[Smallc]

Technically the Halifax class, but we did procure the Orca class training vessels a decade ago, but they aren't commissioned naval vessels.

Wasn't the Kingston after Halifax?

[Derek 2.0]

Wasn't the Kingston after Halifax?

Sure, but I assume BC2004 meant the last commissioned MFU, built in a Canadian yard (hence precluding the Victoria class).

[Smallc]

This seems to be the definition of corruption:

Defence sources told The Canadian Press that Justin Trudeau’s government is uncomfortable with the sole-source nature of the arrangement and the way the Conservatives handled the arrangement with Project Resolve, a subsidiary of Levis, Que.-based Chantier Davie shipyard.

The company’s plan is to upgrade a civilian tanker to act as military replenishment ship while the navy’s long-delayed joint support ships are built.

In order to get the deal going last spring, the Harper government quietly made an unprecedented change to the cabinet regulations governing sole-source purchases.

Documents obtained by The Canadian Press last summer revealed a line was added to contracting regulations in June. It gives the cabinet authority to award a deal to a single company if there are urgent “operational reasons” and it fulfils an interim requirement.

The letter of intent signed with Project Resolve and the planned contract were put before the federal Treasury Board, but defence sources say the plan puts the Liberals in a political jam.

For years, the Liberals have demanded open competition in military procurement, but the first program they’re asked to approve is a sole-source arrangement that required a special cabinet fix.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/20/ottawa-halts-sole-source-contract-for-temporary-navy-supply-ship.html

Edited November 21, 2015 by Smallc

[Derek 2.0]

This seems to be the definition of corruption:

No, its not:

CORRUPTION. An act done with an intent to give some advantage inconsistent with official duty and the rights of others. It includes bribery,but is more comprehensive; because an act may be corruptly done, though the advantage to be derived from it be not offered by another.Merl. Rep. h.t.

Since you're in the mood to toss around libelous statements, what rules were broken?

This comes done to following line that you didn't bold:

The letter of intent signed with Project Resolve and the planned contract were put before the federal Treasury Board, but defence sources say the plan puts the Liberals in a political jam.

Politics......you can't blame the Tories if the Liberals feel they have a tough political choice to make (You yourself suggested the Liberals "owe" the Atlantic Provinces more than Quebec), and in the end, decided a choice the hurts the RCN, despite their promises to fix it..........If DND, within the last several weeks, can no longer afford ~$140-160 million a year to cover the lease from Davie, one must question where the money went? Could it be the tens of millions going to turn cadet summer camp facilities into housing for 25000 Syrians, coupled with the requirement to provide security on the bases etc, costs all coming out of the DND budget?

[Smallc]

Rules weren't broken to favour someone - they were changed to favour someone (someone that meant votes for the CPC). What are rules for, after all? This is very damaging to the Conservatives from where I sit, far more so than Duffy.

[bush_cheney2004]

This is fascinating...and consistent with past political scandal and brinksmanship. The actual building or refit of ships or aircraft always seems to be a much lower priority.

[Derek 2.0]

Rules weren't broken to favour someone - they were changed to favour someone (someone that meant votes for the CPC). What are rules for, after all? This is very damaging to the Conservatives from where I sit, far more so than Duffy.

And where is that?

[Derek 2.0]

This is fascinating...and consistent with past political scandal and brinksmanship. The actual building or refit of ships or aircraft always seems to be a much lower priority.

For those not getting the vapors, the rules on contracting services out were brought inline with sole source purchases.....in that the Government can legally do said process now with contracted services (in this example the lease for the interim AOR), as it can do with sole source purchases......like we've done with the Globemasters, Chinooks etc.

Of course, what smallc is skating from is the political reality, Trudeau's first defense contract would have been a sole sourced lease for an interim AOR with a Quebec company, of course, when the previous Harper Government did sole source bids, its was likened to a pact with the devil by the Liberals and NDP. At the end of the day, it is the Liberals that are playing politics, and only hurting the RCN, over a 6 year $700 million all-in lease for an interim capability the RCN needs......

Trudeau said he would support the navy, yet his first move on the file is to torpedo it.......when if he went ahead with it, the Opposition Tories, nor the NDP, would have opposed it.........

[Derek 2.0]

And the Premier of Quebec has made his stance on the Trudeau Liberal's torpedo job on the RCN known:

Couillard said putting the breaks on the project is unacceptable.

Work is ready to start in the shipyard, 250 people have been hired, and another 400 are on standby, the premier told reporters in Ottawa.

“We will not accept any change to the project planning,” he said, adding that he had not received any official word about the decision from the federal government yet.

And of course, the MV Asterix is alongside the yard, outside of Quebec City, right now.

Idle ships alongside is the wrong way to rebuild the RCN, as promised by Trudeau.

[Smallc]

Torpedo job on the RCN - that's rich. From a steadfast supporter of the government that canned the first JSS deal as too expensive and signed a more expensive one later....much later. We wouldn't even have this issue if the Conservatives had signed the first contract. We wouldn't be having the current problem if the Conservatives hadn't changed their own rules and left the decision (again, like the CF-18 replacement) to someone else.

Of course, you're the person that also defended it this way: we've already signed a deal for a supply ship lease on each coast. With that done, why waste more money (of course, the Conservative deal does cost us $89M, no matter what)? You said it was perfectly acceptable, after all.

The Liberals clearly committed to building the maximum number of vessels under the NSPS (6 AOPS, 3 JSS, 15 CSC, and so far, 15 CCG ships) and never committed to an interim supply capability. I'd love to have that capability. It seems that there was some really shady dealing in this case.

[Derek 2.0]

Torpedo job on the RCN - that's rich. From a steadfast supporter of the government that canned the first JSS deal as too expensive and signed a more expensive one later....much later. We wouldn't even have this issue if the Conservatives had signed the first contract. We wouldn't be having the current problem if the Conservatives hadn't changed their own rules and left the decision (again, like the CF-18 replacement) to someone else.

The first JSS program wasn't a "deal" (no yards had been contracted) but a concept, a concept that was poorly thought out by the previous Liberal Government..........hence your claim that the previous "deal" was cheaper isn't grounded in reality.

Of course, you're the person that also defended it this way: we've already signed a deal for a supply ship lease on each coast. With that done, why waste more money (of course, the Conservative deal does cost us $89M, no matter what)? You said it was perfectly acceptable, after all.

When did I say or suggest anything of the sort? Quite the opposite, I knew months prior (to it being released publicly) that the RCN and GoC were seeking an interim capability, and though they went a different direction from what I would have favored personally, I fully supported the notion.

The Liberals clearly committed to building the maximum number of vessels under the NSPS (6 AOPS, 3 JSS, 15 CSC, and so far, 15 CCG ships) and never committed to an interim supply capability. I'd love to have that capability. It seems that there was some really shady dealing in this case.

You alleged "shady dealing" before, of course, you offer zero evidence to support yourself. Here is the actual law:

6. Notwithstanding section 5, a contracting authority may enter into a contract without soliciting bids where

• (a) the need is one of pressing emergency in which delay would be injurious to the public interest;

Addressing several accidents that hamper our nations's navy ability to deploy itself is in the public interest.

Trudeau promised to support the RCN's ability to be a blue-water force, this political move will heed this ability, an ability the RCN has had since the Second World War. Like his father, that did away with fixed wing naval aviation, PM Trudeau is overseeing the demise of the RCN even further........personally I find it odd that you think he will spend tens of billions on new fighters and frigates (money not budgeted within this mandate), but can't currently find hundreds of millions to maintain a crucial capability for our navy.

[Derek 2.0]

So, per the shipbuilding association of Canada, the Liberals are simply dragging their feet and playing politics.........and hurting the navy:

"Following an extensive consultation period lasting for six months and subsequent evaluations by those departments, Canada selected the Davie proposal on its merits ahead of other domestic and international bids."

And

"This was a fair process open to all industry, which followed common sense and resulted in one of the most successful shipbuilding procurements for decades. It demonstrated that Canada is indeed able to fast-track programs when vital for national security."

Cairns urged the government to follow through on the Davie deal, which it said had "been awarded fairly and with due process."

That should put to rest all of the baseless claims of "shady dealings" on the part of the Harper Government and Davie shipbuilding........

Edited November 24, 2015 by Derek 2.0

[Smallc]

Irving Shipbuilding says four supply ships are presently being built in Romania because two years ago, when Irving won the contract, the Halifax Shipyard was undergoing a $350-million expansion and modernization to handle the next phase of the 30-year national shipbuilding contract.

McCoy says with the shipyard's makeover complete and work underway on the first Arctic ship, it has plenty of capability to refit a temporary supply vessel for the navy. He questions whether the process used by the previous Harper government to award the work to Davie was ever finalized.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/irving-shipbuilding-denies-meddling-1.3330092

It looks to me like the government is just being prudent, and checking into the truthiness of all of this.

[Smallc]

Trudeau responding to it now live:

Need an open and transparent system in place. We need to make sure the government gets what it needs at a reasonable price, even though we are concerned about the workers and their jobs.

[Derek 2.0]

Trudeau responding to it now live:

Need an open and transparent system in place. We need to make sure the government gets what it needs at a reasonable price, even though we are concerned about the workers and their jobs.

In other words, we'll drag our feet when it comes to supporting the navy, but press the Forces, well rushing to bring in refugees.......makes sense.

[Smallc]

In other words, you heard from that what you wanted to hear.

[Derek 2.0]

It looks to me like the government is just being prudent, and checking into the truthiness of all of this.

Every loser, of every defense contract, across the World always had the better and cheaper option........

Davie currently has the ship tied up at its yard, Irving doesn't.......full stop.

[Derek 2.0]

In other words, you heard from that what you wanted to hear.

No, it confirmed what I knew.........the Liberals are back!!!!!!

[Smallc]

Davie currently has the ship tied up at its yard, Irving doesn't.......full stop.

And I'm nearly positive that in 60 days that will be the determination at this point. The problem seems to be the process.

[Derek 2.0]

And I'm nearly positive that in 60 days that will be the determination at this point. The problem seems to be the process.

And in the meantime, 600 workers at Davie will be out of work over the holidays and our navy will be two months further put out.......if Trudeau goes ahead with an interim option that is.