OCCUPY

[Moonlight Graham]

Hmm, Chris Hedges spouting tin foil hat nonsense and uncle kevin letting him hang himself. That was a gem, thank you!!!

What specifically did you disagree with?

Kevin O'Leary is greedy, disgusting pig who laughs in the face of corporate responsibility in the name of profit. All the other venture capitalists on Dragon's Den are superior human beings to him because they value profit but also have a hint moral fiber.

[blueblood]

What specifically did you disagree with?

Kevin O'Leary is greedy, disgusting pig who laughs in the face of corporate responsibility in the name of profit. All the other venture capitalists on Dragon's Den are superior human beings to him because they value profit but also have a hint moral fiber.

Oh I don't know, the corporations don't create anything, it's all the corporations fault, the corporations are destroying the world for starters. I mean really, and O'Leary took him to task for it.

Kevin O'Leary has helped out more people than you or I have. He doesn't have to appear on Dragon's Den, he doesn't have to invest in start ups, he doesn't have to give financial advice that he uses to make money, he doesn't have to have an investment firm that helps people with retirement and at the same time provide capital to start projects. He might be mean, but he's honest and does give advice. You think that ripping somebody apart when they mortgaged their house on an obviously stupid idea in order to get them to stop is being disgusting; that's tough love.

I think its valuable that our society has somebody like that to show the other side of looking at things.

[cybercoma]

Oh I don't know, the corporations don't create anything, it's all the corporations fault, the corporations are destroying the world for starters. I mean really, and O'Leary took him to task for it.

You didn't listen to the response to O'Leary after that, did you? If you did, you would have known that Hedges was talking about investment funds that don't produce anything. The rest of his response explains what the problem is with these hedge funds and their management, while also recognizing that Canada does not suffer from the same problems thanks to regulations.

[jacee]

Hmm, Chris Hedges spouting tin foil hat nonsense and uncle kevin letting him hang himself. That was a gem, thank you!!!

I was waiting for the tongue lashing and it never happened. If that's offensive, hedges needs to see a shrink

What an embarrassment!!

Kevin O'Lunacy is a shining example of everything that is wrong with corporate and wealth power, and why we are in this state of ongoing protest.

He has the intellect of a louse and social intelligence is totally lacking. He's a sociopathic predator like those who admire him. I look forward to the time when we can identify these genetic predators before birth and abort them.

I see much more clearly now that by 'trusting' wealth and power, we have put ourselves under the control of moral monsters. There is no cure for sociopaths.

The syphylitic deranged monarchs of the past are benign compared to the predatory wealth and power of today.

There is no value in appealing to intellect and humanity that doesn't exist.

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS, I say.

Metaphorically, of course, but the multiheaded beast must be taken down before it takes all of us down.

[Bonam]

You didn't listen to the response to O'Leary after that, did you? If you did, you would have known that Hedges was talking about investment funds that don't produce anything. The rest of his response explains what the problem is with these hedge funds and their management, while also recognizing that Canada does not suffer from the same problems thanks to regulations.

On the contrary, hedge funds and other investments provide capital and market liquidity, which are crucial to achieve market efficiency.

[cybercoma]

On the contrary, hedge funds and other investments provide capital and market liquidity, which are crucial to achieve market efficiency.

Right. And they still don't produce anything.

[blueblood]

Right. And they still don't produce anything.

and pray tell how a company opening lets say a mine is supposed to get funding other than going to a bank and having to make interest payments?

[jacee]

On the contrary, hedge funds and other investments provide capital and market liquidity, which are crucial to achieve market efficiency.

Do manufacturing corporations intentionally make lousy products and then 'hedge their bets' by investing in their competitors to make money?

That's what banks do.That's what hedge funds are.

They should be illegal.

[capricorn]

What an embarrassment!!

Kevin O'Lunacy is a shining example of everything that is wrong with corporate and wealth power, and why we are in this state of ongoing protest.

He has the intellect of a louse and social intelligence is totally lacking. He's a sociopathic predator like those who admire him. I look forward to the time when we can identify these genetic predators before birth and abort them.

I see much more clearly now that by 'trusting' wealth and power, we have put ourselves under the control of moral monsters. There is no cure for sociopaths.

The syphylitic deranged monarchs of the past are benign compared to the predatory wealth and power of today.

There is no value in appealing to intellect and humanity that doesn't exist.

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS, I say.

Metaphorically, of course, but the multiheaded beast must be taken down before it takes all of us down.

:lol:

[cybercoma]

and pray tell how a company opening lets say a mine is supposed to get funding other than going to a bank and having to make interest payments?

Completely irrelevant. And it's not my problem that your imagination has blinders.

[blueblood]

Do manufacturing corporations intentionally make lousy products and then 'hedge their bets' by investing in their competitors to make money?

That's what banks do.That's what hedge funds are.

They should be illegal.

Everybody hedges. Here's an example.

In 2008 Westjet hedged their fuel inventory for the year by betting the price went up. So they bought all their fuel and watched month after month as fuel prices went up. As a result their passengers got to have cheaper flights without WestJet' s margins being affected, and more people flew on WestJet. Oh curse those handsome devils and their hedging!!!

Hedging doesn't make you as much money as making a legitimate profit. Hedging only cuts losses. It also cuts gains. Hedging is betting on all the horses in the race. If you think hedging is the ultimate money maker, I suggest placing a bet of 100$ or how much you can afford on both teams in the stanley cup final to win the stanley cup.

[jacee]

and pray tell how a company opening lets say a mine is supposed to get funding other than going to a bank and having to make interest payments?

If a bank bets against its own products because they are so lousy, do you really want to do business with them? Can you trust them?

Find a better bank.

Edited October 19, 2011 by jacee

[blueblood]

Completely irrelevant. And it's not my problem that your imagination has blinders.

How is that irrelevant, that's what hedge fund/investment fund managers essentially do!!! They provide their customer's money and in exchange for providing said money to various firms they take a share of the profits or stock value and pass that along to their customers and collect a fee for doing so.

[blueblood]

If a bank bets against its own products because they are so lousy, do you really want to do business with them? Can you trust them?

Find a better bank.

Now your getting it, that's the market at work. If enough people do so, guess what, the bank doesn't do things like that anymore.

And that's whats going on, note canadian bank expansion into the USA.

[cybercoma]

How is that irrelevant, that's what hedge fund/investment fund managers essentially do!!! They provide their customer's money and in exchange for providing said money to various firms they take a share of the profits or stock value and pass that along to their customers and collect a fee for doing so.

I never said it wasn't what they do. What I'm saying is that Hedges said they don't make anything. And they don't.

[blueblood]

I never said it wasn't what they do. What I'm saying is that Hedges said they don't make anything. And they don't.

They provide returns for their investors, you have to pay to play.

[cybercoma]

They provide returns for their investors, you have to pay to play.

Still not making anything.

[blueblood]

Still not making anything.

Client buys an oil delivery contract on the NYMEX for 80$ per barrel expecting the price to rise. Price rises to 100$ for said delivery contract and the client sells that delivery contract. Client has the option to pocket the 20$ per barrel profit or roll the contract over to the next delivery date. Say enough people sell their contract at 100$, demand drops and the price falls to 95$, client can re-enter and makes money.

Welcome to the futures market. THat's why the price of oil jumps around like a yo-yo.

Sounds like they're creating wealth for their clients to me.

Edited October 19, 2011 by blueblood

[cybercoma]

I get all that, but they're still not making anything. That's all he was saying.

[jacee]

Everybody hedges. Here's an example.

In 2008 Westjet hedged their fuel inventory for the year by betting the price went up. So they bought all their fuel and watched month after month as fuel prices went up. As a result their passengers got to have cheaper flights without WestJet' s margins being affected, and more people flew on WestJet. Oh curse those handsome devils and their hedging!!!

That's not a valid analogy for hedge funds.

This is:

Westjet knows its planes are going to fail and kill hundreds of people, so it invests in another airline so it can make money regardless.

[blueblood]

I get all that, but they're still not making anything. That's all he was saying.

But they're making money, and by investing money in those contracts, they provide incentives to producers to start making more, and if more gets made the price drops and the hedge fund adjusts to that. It's providing liquidity, albeit volatile liquidity.

[jacee]

Here in "progressive" Vancouver it stands around 0.0001%.........And it's been rather nice and sunny out

Are you using 34m in your calculations?

You do realize that population number includes children?

Edited October 19, 2011 by jacee

[bush_cheney2004]

Are you using 34m in your calculations?

You do realize that population number includes children?

Truly desperate now...OK...subtract out the children and impress us with the resulting number, which is still laughable.

[Bonam]

That's not a valid analogy for hedge funds.

This is:

Westjet knows its planes are going to fail and kill hundreds of people, so it invests in another airline so it can make money regardless.

You mean like Microsoft investing in Apple, for example?

Anyway, a company investing in its competitors based on the specific knowledge that it will fail and thus boost its competitors is insider trading and is banned by law. Convictions for insider trading have seen heavy fines and jail terms imposed on people. On the other hand, a company simply hedging to try to reduce risk is sound business practice and is commonly done.

[Guest Derek L]

Are you using 34m in your calculations?

You do realize that population number includes children?

Nope........BC has a population of about 4.5 million........there's a few hundred campers........You want the number minus children......half of 4.5 million is 2.25 million.......ok the few hundred downtown equal 0.0002%......