Walking Dead or Boardwalk Empires

bush_cheney2004 · October 18, 2011

TV ad revenue has dropped dramatically with the advent of the PVR. In Winnipeg, we saw firsthand the effects of this in terms of loss of jobs with the demise of Canwest. Your actions have helped perpetuate that.

What actions? Going to the bathroom during a commercial break? You realize they are called "breaks", right?

But I don't get the logic that my defence of content creators and their means of generating income is an indication I would be interested in downloading torrents. I guess when faced with the idea that your actions are equivalent to those you too consider to be "scumbags", your only option is to lash out.

You made a mistake and just assumed that I owned a DVR/PVR, implying that we were stealing just like a web torrent miscreant. You were wrong. Nobody is stealing anything by skipping commercials on subscription cable television.

BubberMiley · October 18, 2011

Nobody is stealing anything by skipping commercials on subscription cable television.

Again, you're not living up to your end of the bargain. This widespread behaviour has had a significant effect on revenue for content creators, just as widespread illegal downloading has. While the courts would likely be more interested in the torrent downloader than the ad-skipper, the negative effect on revenue (and the belief by the perpetrators that it's okay to freeload content) is the same.

bush_cheney2004 · October 18, 2011

Again, you're not living up to your end of the bargain. This widespread behaviour has had a significant effect on revenue for content creators, just as widespread illegal downloading has.

There is no such contractual obligation or agreement affixed to a cable television subscription. Content, which is already paid for by fee whether viewed or not, does not carry the additional obligation of watching advertising.

While the courts would likely be more interested in the torrent downloader than the ad-skipper, the negative effect on revenue (and the belief by the perpetrators that it's okay to freeload content) is the same.

Utter nonsense....and you know it. No court has so founded, not even in that international cable television behemoth market known as "Winnipeg". But this is a fun game and good for my post count.

Edited October 18, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

BubberMiley · October 18, 2011

There is no such contractual obligation or agreement affixed to a cable television subscription. Content, which is already paid for by fee whether viewed or not, does not carry the additional obligation of watching advertising.

Really? It seems to me the first commandment of ad-generated content is "Don't go away!".

Utter nonsense....and you know it. No court has so founded, not even in that international cable television behemoth market known as "Winnipeg".

Uh...yeah. That's what I said. But no court in Winnipeg has determined anything regarding torrent downloading either. That doesn't make it right.

Boges · October 19, 2011

Trying to avoid watching ads isn't anything new. As I said before the VCR was allowing people to ignore ads in the 80's.

The DVR is amazing because you can watch something and record something else at the same time. You can also decide shows you want to before hand. I can scan through my guide and look for shows I want to watch even if I can't be there to watch them when they aire.

My wife is watching Terra Nova on the DVR. I was watching my Miami Dolphins get destroyed last night but the DVR recorded it anyway. Technology is awesome.

We had a commercial break. Before getting a chance to fast forward I can tell the first ad is that hilarious Google Chrome Angry Birds ad. I've seen it before so I can fast forward through it.

If the ad is good enough it'll catch your attention even if you can fast forward through it.

BubberMiley · October 19, 2011

I have no interest in vampires, werewolves or zombies, so I haven't seen Walking Dead or True Blood. But I like 1920s Atlantic City very much and subscribed to Movie Central just to watch Boardwalk Empire.

Season One was worth it just to see Japanese Sandman being sung by a naked girl playing the ukelele.

fellowtraveller · October 19, 2011

No, I think what is "OK" is perfectly clear. You watch ads when you watch ad-supported TV. If you're willing to pay a premium, you might get the chance to watch the same content without ads.

This is the kind of thinking that makes Manitoba great.....

I pay for the service every month and can watch and not watch whatever and whenever I wish. I can also legally record and replay any of it, as long as I do not resell.

If I am somehow obliged in BubbaWorld to watch everything presented, do I get a refund if I do not watch all the material presented?

Hydraboss · October 19, 2011

Jesus Bubber, are you smoking too much weed lately?

Advertisers pay for the opportunity to show me their wares. There is no implied contractual agreement or expectation that subscribers will watch.

Subscribers pay for the opportunity to watch programming. There is no implied contractual agreement or expectation that I MUST watch anything. As long as there is more than one channel in my subscription service, it would make such a contract impossible.

I am perfectly free (with a clear concience to watch 5 minutes of one show, change the channel and watch 5 minutes of another show, and on and on. If I were expected to watch commercials, this channel surfing would not be possible (or the cable service would simply "lock" on a channel of my choice at the beginning of the show and not allow me to switch).

BubberMiley · October 19, 2011

If that were true, why do you suppose that when a PVR was programmed to automatically skip commercials, the networks sued for copyright infringement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_skipping

BubberMiley · October 19, 2011

Since no one can answer that question, I can help. This is an interesting article on the subject that documents my position nicely, and shows that it has nothing to do with personal downloading habits, residency in Manitoba, or use of illegal drugs.

Quite simply, there is a potential interpretation that once you start editing the program yourself, you are creating an adaptation (or "derivation), which violates the terms of use. The article goes on about how this is a serious issue for commercial broadcasters that may well force them to change their economic model entirely (which sounds a lot like their issues with illegal torrent downloading as well).

Edited October 19, 2011 by BubberMiley

August1991 · October 19, 2011

Interesting that they both have the same disdain for their viewers. My wife timed the movie intro at 31 minutes recently in Chicago. That is a long time to a captive audience.
I don't know how they get away with it on TV, where a 90 minute movie clocks in at 3 hours.

Smart! Until people learn that they can arrive late to see the movie - assuming seats are available.

I happen to like adverts before the movie. In Montreal, they also do trivia questions in French/English. We enjoy laughing at the translations of Hollywood star gossip.

----

I happen to think that technology and demographics have completely upset the Hollywood marketing paradigm. The tentpole movie approach no longer works.

And since California is the future, many other sectors will face similar marketing problems in the future.

Season One was worth it just to see Japanese Sandman being sung by a naked girl playing the ukelele.

WTF?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pPvVVTC_5k

Cool!

Edited October 19, 2011 by August1991

fellowtraveller · October 19, 2011

Smart! Until people learn that they can arrive late to see the movie - assuming seats are available.
I happen to like adverts before the movie. In Montreal, they also do trivia questions in French/English. We enjoy laughing at the translations of Hollywood star goss

'Smart' is not the right word when you hit the 30 minute mark.....

First they have the inane movie gossip, interspersedwith many outright ads. Often they are expensively produced and witless ads. They really shpould take a cue from the Euros, who often prodcue entertaining or funny adss.

Next, more ads plus previews of several upcoming movies which in Canada are generally all movies of the same genre as the one you are about to see. Next, PSAa interspersed with more ads. Finally and mercifully, a movie.

AMC differs in two ways in movie previews, first is the extreme length. Second is that they tend to show previews of their own upcoming stuff, of any genre.

Nobody shows shorts anymore.

Argus · October 20, 2011

I kind of like Walking Dead, but it's cartoonishly written and you have to suspend a ton of disbelief. There are just way, way too many zombies still alive a month or more after the grand apocalypse. Wth are they all surviving on anyway? And our heroes remain armed only with single shot weapons, I guess to keep things fair. There are no flame throwers, automatic weapons, or anything else more sophisticated than a hunting rifle, despite them coming across all kinds of military equipment, even tanks in the street.

Last night they were on a highway in the middle of nowhere when the RV breaks down. They get out to look for gear among the numerous broken down, abandoned vehicles on the highway, and within ten minutes a 'herd' of zombies start shuffling by. I mean, WTH?! From where? Why?

And btw, if they'd all had automatic weapons or a single flamethrower they'd have been able to kill all the zombies, easy, despite the fact zombies can run in this series.

Although where they're getting the energy is a bit beyond me...

bush_cheney2004 · October 20, 2011

Since no one can answer that question, I can help.

This is best...you should answer your own inane question.

Hydraboss · October 20, 2011

I kind of like Walking Dead, but it's cartoonishly written and you have to suspend a ton of disbelief

It's about zombies. Guess "disbelief" goes with the territory, but it's fun. Of course, I get enough reality in...reality.

There are just way, way too many zombies still alive a month or more after the grand apocalypse. With are they all surviving on anyway? And our heroes remain armed only with single shot weapons, I guess to keep things fair. There are no flame throwers, automatic weapons, or anything else more sophisticated than a hunting rifle, despite them coming across all kinds of military equipment, even tanks in the street.

The single-shot thing always bugged me about the genre too. They're in frickin Georgia for christ sake. Like there are no "rodent rifles" around (of the M-16/AR-15A2 variety, perhaps?) In movies where they actually get automatics, the morons shoot 99% of the clips at the undead's midsection. Weird.

Last night they were on a highway in the middle of nowhere when the RV breaks down. They get out to look for gear among the numerous broken down, abandoned vehicles on the highway, and within ten minutes a 'herd' of zombies start shuffling by. I mean, WTH?! From where? Why?

Okay, I think the "herd" thing was a little stupid too. Wasn't there a guy with BINOCULARS on the roof of the RV? And about the motorhome, why the frick don't they stop by any old RV dealership and get a NEW one? I own a 40' diesel pusher, and the way the zombies act in this show, I could easily sleep soundly with just the door locked (windows are about 7 1/2' off the ground). It also holds enough supplies and fuel to travel 1500 km without stopping.

But what fun would that be?

And btw, if they'd all had automatic weapons or a single flamethrower they'd have been able to kill all the zombies, easy, despite the fact zombies can run in this series.

Again, see points above. Dumb.

Boges · October 20, 2011

I kind of like Walking Dead, but it's cartoonishly written and you have to suspend a ton of disbelief. There are just way, way too many zombies still alive a month or more after the grand apocalypse. Wth are they all surviving on anyway? And our heroes remain armed only with single shot weapons, I guess to keep things fair. There are no flame throwers, automatic weapons, or anything else more sophisticated than a hunting rifle, despite them coming across all kinds of military equipment, even tanks in the street.

Last night they were on a highway in the middle of nowhere when the RV breaks down. They get out to look for gear among the numerous broken down, abandoned vehicles on the highway, and within ten minutes a 'herd' of zombies start shuffling by. I mean, WTH?! From where? Why?

And btw, if they'd all had automatic weapons or a single flamethrower they'd have been able to kill all the zombies, easy, despite the fact zombies can run in this series.

Although where they're getting the energy is a bit beyond me...

Isn't that why they're on their way to the military base, to find better weapons.

In the comic book they never seem to find high-powered weapons until later on. They had been hiding out next to a Quarry for most of their time out there.

I don't think zombies have the same nutritional needs as humans either.

The bigger question about it being realistic is why where those dead people just sitting in their cars? Was there some sort of event that caused them to die where they were?

Edited October 20, 2011 by Boges

BubberMiley · October 20, 2011

This is best...you should answer your own inane question.

Sorry for citing documents that completely blow away your argument. I know how much you hate to lose face.

bush_cheney2004 · October 20, 2011

Sorry for citing documents that completely blow away your argument. I know how much you hate to lose face.

There was no argument...or terms of use for television advertising. Must be getting colder in Manitoba! Don't worry...the Americans will provide you with hours of media supported by CanCon advertising until spring comes.

BubberMiley · October 20, 2011

...the Americans will provide you with hours of media supported by CanCon advertising until spring comes.

Nothing like a good reliable cut-and-paste response when one has nothing. I trust you'll be sitting patiently through the ads while spending endless hours in front of the TV set now, for fear of losing your self-righteous edge.

bush_cheney2004 · October 20, 2011

Nothing like a good reliable cut-and-paste response when one has nothing. I trust you'll be sitting patiently through the ads while spending endless hours in front of the TV set now, for fear of losing your self-righteous edge.

Not at all...the "TV set" (how quaint) is mostly just background noise. Should I live in constant fear that the advertising police will show up at my door?

blueblood · October 20, 2011

What a foolish argument. If dvring shows is illegal then:

1) why did my satellite company offer a dvr receiver and is advertising them? This is not like a person going into future shop and asking to buy a recording device, the bloody satellite provider is selling them.

2) if the networks have a problem with it, why aren't said satellite/cable providers who are offering the damn things being sued into bankruptcy?

Seems to me like the satellite/cable providers negotiated a deal with the networks to allow this sort of thing...

BubberMiley · October 21, 2011

I didn't say DVRs are illegal. I said skipping commercials goes against the terms of use of watching the show on ad-supported TV.

Obviously it wouldn't be easy to prevent people from skipping ads, just as it's not easy to prevent people from downloading torrents. But both actions are copyright infringements that content creators have tried to stop through legal means.

blueblood · October 21, 2011

I didn't say DVRs are illegal. I said skipping commercials goes against the terms of use of watching the show on ad-supported TV.

Obviously it wouldn't be easy to prevent people from skipping ads, just as it's not easy to prevent people from downloading torrents. But both actions are copyright infringements that content creators have tried to stop through legal means.

If it was then the satellite and cable companies wouldn't be selling dvrs with those options now would they? advertising as previous stated is based on the opportunity of somebody watching. Do you stare at and read every billboard as your driving? Do you leave the room when a commercial comes on?

Why isn't Rogers, shaw, and bell being sued? Why aren't their customers?

BubberMiley · October 21, 2011

Why isn't Rogers, shaw, and bell being sued? Why aren't their customers?

As stated, attempts to include ad-skipping software have resulted in legal action. The networks have also opposed the proliferation of DVRs and have even called for them to be banned (see the part on the future of advertising here).

It appears that rather than generate ire from the people who consume their content, they are looking at restructuring the economic model and incorporating the ads right into the shows instead. The free ride will soon be over.

bush_cheney2004 · October 21, 2011

It appears that rather than generate ire from the people who consume their content, they are looking at restructuring the economic model and incorporating the ads right into the shows instead. The free ride will soon be over.

Old news...we've had product placement in movies and television for years. Sponsorships abound in on-screen graphics and bumper spots. Sports playing fields are adorned with ads....hell...the CFL puts them on the actual playing surface. There never was a totally "free ride".