Conservatives set to table bill.........

[Bonam]

More transparency is good. That applies to unions no less than to corporations and politicians. Everyone will benefit, including the union members.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Why? Because you don't like it when people point out that unions leaders are often thugs that use violence and the treat of violance to enforce discipline?

I find this ironic.

Harper is being a political thug toward Unions. Rather than let disputes be negotiated, he beats the unions into submission with legislation.

It's like a high school kid going to a local elementary school to pick on kids who can't fight back.

We should be embracing the rights of people. Not corporations. Harper has it backwards.

[capricorn]

Union members already get to see the finances... They have annual reports.

Name one, with link please.

[TimG]

Harper is being a political thug toward Unions. Rather than let disputes be negotiated, he beats the unions into submission with legislation.

Sorry. The unions are the bullies holding the public hostage with their demands. Harper simply stood up for the majority of people in the country that depend the services provided by Canada Post and Air Canada.

Frankly, I find it contempable that unions think they have a right to impose harm on millions of innocent people because they cannot negotiate a deal with their employer.

Edited October 4, 2011 by TimG

[capricorn]

While I think it is in dues paying member's best interest to have their union's financial dealings open to scrutiny, there is no doubt this government is anti labour.

Why do you say that Wilber? Is it because they used back to work legislation with Canada Post for example?

[Guest Derek L]

Name one, with link please.

I'll second that.

[Guest Derek L]

I find this ironic.

Harper is being a political thug toward Unions. Rather than let disputes be negotiated, he beats the unions into submission with legislation.

It's like a high school kid going to a local elementary school to pick on kids who can't fight back.

We should be embracing the rights of people. Not corporations. Harper has it backwards.

Corporations are not also made up of people? Judging by the percentage of Canadians that belong to unions today, I’d say corporations play a greater role in the majority of people’s lives………I personally don’t see much of a difference between a union and a church/religion

[punked]

You had to go back nearly 100 years to find and example of corporate thugs. Examples of union thuggery exist today.

The Kosh funneled money into a what is a terrorist state to get their oil. Corporations need to open their books to end of story.

[Guest Derek L]

The Kosh funneled money into a what is a terrorist state to get their oil. Corporations need to open their books to end of story.

They are open……at tax time……..If they fudge numbers, people can and do go to prison……….The RCMP have a whole division focused on white collar crime………Does the RCMP have a division focused on labour?

[blueblood]

The Kosh funneled money into a what is a terrorist state to get their oil. Corporations need to open their books to end of story.

Corporations do open their books, if you want to be publically traded the books have to be open. Since almost all the biggies are publically traded, that's a non starter. Here's a fun fact, if investors looked at lehman brother's books (which were open), a lot of people wouldn't have taken such a kick in the ass by looking at the cash flow instead of income.

Do you think the cbc and the canadian wheat board should open their books yes or no?

[TimG]

The Kosh funneled money into a what is a terrorist state to get their oil. Corporations need to open their books to end of story.

What does that have to do with anything?

[jacee]

Regardless of their motive, be it transparency, politics or both, are you opposed to such a notion?

No I'm not. All government depts have open books.

Even the government's G8 budget was open to public view. But who knew that "border security" required $50m worth of sprucing up Tony Clement's funders ..er voters .. er Mayors ... riding ... in Muskoka.

I guess if they can fake a million dollar lake in Toronto, they can fake a $50m 'border' in Muskoka, especially when it buys Tony Clement an election.

Yes, I'm in favour of open books. That's how I was able to track a $250m subsidy to an oil sands company that showed up as profit.

[olp1fan]

I've been in unions too and I would be glad they not exist

they keep the lazy, bad workers there and its the good workers that get stiffed,

im liberal too so don't call me a union basher and if we got rid of unions that does not mean our min. wage would go down

or we'd be forced to work slave hours, that is bullshit and ANYONE who claims that

is a retard

[jacee]

Sorry. The unions are the bullies holding the public hostage with their demands. Harper simply stood up for the majority of people in the country that depend the services provided by Canada Post and Air Canada.

Frankly, I find it contempable that unions think they have a right to impose harm on millions of innocent people because they cannot negotiate a deal with their employer.

Gee ... and here I thought it was an employer's job to negotiate an agreement with their employees.

Removal of the right to strike is going to be a streetworthy issue, for sure.

[Wilber]

Why do you say that Wilber? Is it because they used back to work legislation with Canada Post for example?

I was thinking more on the line of Air Canada. Government can't seem to make up its mind whether it is a private company or not. All through CCAA and the subsequent weakening of the company by ACE to "unlock shareholder value" and other actions taken by the company to continually increase management compensation while demanding cuts from employees, government, Liberal and Conservative has steadfastly claimed it couldn't interfere because it was a private company. After eight years and as soon as the employees finally find themselves in a legal position to push back, this government is all over it. It's a private company only as long as it suits them.

[msj]

Name one, with link please.

Why would you find it surprising that union members would be able to view the financial statements at regular meetings and annual general meetings?

I audit a local union's books and I know that any member is able to look at them at the AGM because I have attended it.

As for a link, well, here's a link to an agenda for an AGM for Local Union 523 [PDF].

Note the line "Treasurer's Report: Pg to pg."

Perhaps if you were a member you could have attended it to see the financial statements.

[Wild Bill]

Tell them what it's really about Bill ...

US Steel wants to drop the cost-of-living increases for 9000 Stelco pensioners.

A few steelworkers made a lot of noise but 30 people is only 30 people out of the 900 voting members.

The right wing tv, radio and newspaper media made a big stink about it, but 30 votes is only 30 votes, despite the full force backing of anti-union media.

Now there's a new offer on the table.

You twist my words. No wonder you defend unions!

I said the vote was a show of hands and that meant that many people would have been too intimidated to vote they way they really wanted. That is the very reason for a secret ballot being standard practice in any civilized democracy or institution except apparently, many unions! Who the hell can tell if those 30 brave guys were the only ones who felt that way?

Or is it your position that the steelworkers are not entitled to a secret ballot? Or maybe through some sort of ESP/psychic powers the union membership knows how all their workers feel and have no need for a fair vote?

The union exec is walking a fine line. They are taking a negotiating position without truly polling the support of their voting membership. If the plant closes they will be responsible to the hungry children of all those members they shut out of the decision making process. Certainly, if we see a repeat of the Nanticoke example where after more than a year of suffering the local had no choice but to accept the company's original offer then next union leadership elections will be very interesting!

EI ends for the workers this month! However, the union negotiating team is still paid by the union. No one in their family will go hungry.

Don't try to paint this union as some kind of lily white saint, jaycee. I watched it through my dad all his working life! It was especially bad when they were part of the American International Union. The Yankee union bosses routinely would get a Canadian local to strike for something new as cannon fodder to test the water for the larger American division. If it didn't work no american union workers suffered. My dad and his buds threw a party when their union broke away to form the Canadian Steelworkers Union!

The typical union boss is never a David Suzuki but more likely to be a Jimmy Hoffa!

Edited October 4, 2011 by Wild Bill

[jacee]

Do you think the cbc and the canadian wheat board should open their books yes or no?

http://www.cbc.radio-canada.ca/annualreports/2010%2D2011/eng/financials/

http://www.cwb.ca/public/en/about/investor/annual/

Now you could have looked that up.

[jacee]

You twist my words. No wonder you defend unions!

I said the vote was a show of hands and that meant that many people would have been too intimidated to vote they way they really wanted. That is the very reason for a secret ballot being standard practice in any civilized democracy or institution except apparently, many unions! Who the hell can tell if those 30 brave guys were the only ones who felt that way?

Or is it your position that the steelworkers are not entitled to a secret ballot? Or maybe through some sort of ESP/psychic powers the union membership knows how all their workers feel and have no need for a fair vote?

The union exec is walking a fine line. They are taking a negotiating position without truly polling the support of their voting membership.

Bullshit Bill.

If the plant closes they will be responsible to the hungry children of all those members they shut out of the decision making process. Certainly, if we see a repeat of the Nanticoke example where after more than a year of suffering the local had no choice but to accept the company's original offer then next union leadership elections will be very interesting!

EI ends for the workers this month! However, the union negotiating team is still paid by the union. No one in their family will go hungry.

Don't try to paint this union as some kind of lily white saint, jaycee. I watched it through my dad all his working life! It was especially bad when they were part of the American International Union. The Yankee union bosses routinely would get a Canadian local to strike for something new as cannon fodder to test the water for the larger American division. If it didn't work no american union workers suffered. My dad and his buds threw a party when their union broke away to form the Canadian Steelworkers Union!

The typical union boss is never a David Suzuki but more likely to be a Jimmy Hoffa!

Gee ... you sound just like the media that keep harping on and on and on about this even though the members support the negotiating team.

You're saying that the remaining 900 members should sell out the 9000 pensioners. The members disagree.

Edited October 4, 2011 by jacee

[TimG]

You're saying that the remaining 900 members should sell out the 9000 pensioners. The members disagree.

You can't make that claim unless there was a secret ballot. Do you have evidence that the members were given the opportunity to vote in a secret ballot?

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Sorry. The unions are the bullies holding the public hostage with their demands. Harper simply stood up for the majority of people in the country that depend the services provided by Canada Post and Air Canada.

Frankly, I find it contempable that unions think they have a right to impose harm on millions of innocent people because they cannot negotiate a deal with their employer.

Excuse me, the employer has no part in negotiation?

What a sick attitude.

Lets all just legislate everyone who makes under $90,000 a year to minimum wage and be done with it... The conservative utopia paradise!

Edited October 4, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[TimG]

Excuse me, the employer has no part in negotiation?

If there is a lock out then the employer is to blame. I really don't care. The point two squabbling parties have no business imposing harm on millions of people because they can't agree.

Note that in both cases Air Canada and the union settled rather than letting the government set the terms. This is pretty strong evidence that the government needs to step in to force agreement in these situations.

What is sick is that you actually believe that there is nothing wrong with unions or companies imposing harm on millions of people because they can't agree on a contract. Your priorities are twisted.

Edited October 4, 2011 by TimG

[charter.rights]

You can't make that claim unless there was a secret ballot. Do you have evidence that the members were given the opportunity to vote in a secret ballot?

Unions don't operate in secret. Their executive and voting members are employees embedded in the workforce of a plant, and they spread the word.

Most union meetings are consensus driven. That means there is lots of discussion pros and cons before a vote usually is called. There is lots of time for any member to stand up and speak to an issue. There is no need for a secret ballot on any issue.

In my experience the whiners within union membership are those who are too lazy to attend meetings. They think they can go over issues that have already been settled by a majority of the attending members. If they are not interested in attending the meetings then their hard luck.

Edited October 4, 2011 by charter.rights

[TimG]

Most union meetings are consensus driven. That means there is lots of discussion pros and cons before a vote usually is called. There is lots of time for any member to stand up and speak to an issue. There is no need for a secret ballot on any issue.

ROTFL. You really believe this? There is no way to have a true consensus without a secret ballot. All you have with open ballots is consensus by intimidation. Edited October 4, 2011 by TimG

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Name one, with link please.

Easy.

Ontario Teachers' Federation has an annual meeting that teacher's can go to. The members know their budget, if they care enough to go.

My brother is in another union and is actively involved. He also sees the annual budget.

It's there for any union member that wants to see how the money is budgetted.

Conservatives have this "solution" looking for a problem.

Most people don't even know what they are talking about. There is no conspiracy to hide union budgets from their members.

Edited October 4, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist