Ontario employees sent memo about "sensitivity" to Muslims.

[Bob]

None of this is true.

If we're talking about Ramadan, where did your "day off" for religious observance come from? Some Muslims increase their observance during this period of the year and engage in the full five times per day prayers whereas during the rest of the year they are more laid back about it. So it's cool to give employees and extra thirty minutes off per day for an entire month? And when they have a mood swing or show up to work late, you just brush it off because they're going through a hard fast? It is every individual's responsibility to make his or her own accommodations based on his or her own needs.

[Bob]

This, for example, from Bob:

That's a blanket smear of all minorities? Or of a particular group of them who choose to conduct themselves in a certain way? I'm not allowed to be disgusted by body odour or foot washing where I wash my hands?

[guyser]

Who did that here?

Bob

[Boges]

Some clarifications should be given.

I'm sure government employees have 2 breaks and a lunch break the entire day. They should be able to do their prayer at these times and before and after work.

If they are being given additional time off for this, I'm against it because it is pandering to Muslims.

I'm also against allowing for cigarettes breaks every hour, on the hour,which I'm willing to guess, government employees get, just to be consistent.

Then again I'm not a fan of government employees in general.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Boges

[Black Dog]

It's the usual rhetoric of the left, as whenever I attack multiculturalism and "sensitivity" policies, I'm immediately smeared as a racist. Nevermind the fact that I have more real and genuine Muslim friends than perhaps everyone in here combined.

Do they know you hate them and everything they stand for and want them sent back whence they or their forebears came (er, provided they didn't come from Israel)?

[Rick]

This, for example, from Bob:

And this for example...

I invite any real Canadian patriot to take a gander at this thread and see for yourself exactly why this country is finished. The apathy of the left and their commitment to continually bend and adjust our values and expectations in the name of "cultural sensitivity" is what fuels the ongoing importing of third-world trash into Canada. We have enough domestic trash, already, but let's keep bringing in foreign trash via family reunification laws (which include plenty of fake marriages) and compassionate refugee laws.

[Bob]

Remember Boges - expectations of basic hygiene is not bigotry. We should be sensitive to religious Muslim women who stink at work because they wrap themselves up on 35 degree summer workdays. And washing one's feet in the sink isn't gross because it's a beautiful cultural practise. Thinking otherwise, and having perceptions shaped by a secular perspective is now intolerant and bigoted.

[Bob]

And this for example...

Oh really? Which group did I smear there?

[Black Dog]

Some clarifications should be given.

I'm sure government employees have 2 breaks and a lunch break the entire day. They should be able to do their prayer at these times and before and after work.

If they are being given additional time off for this, I'm against it because it is pandering to Muslims.

I'm fairly confident that all OPS employees are entitled to additional time off for religious holidays outside of stats.

Do you think that entitlement should end as well?

[Rick]

Oh really? Which group did I smear there?

If you can't see it, I can't help you.

Your hatred of them blinds you apparently.

I kind of feel sorry for your imaginary friends...

[Michael Hardner]

That's a blanket smear of all minorities? Or of a particular group of them

A particular group. In any case, I think it's insulting and against forum rules.

[scribblet]

Yes, we have to be sensitive to all such religious groups and we are.

There's no point in singling any religion out, as this is done for all religions.

So why are they singling out one religion for special treatment and accommodation !

Christianity and all vestiges of it have been eradicated from our supposedly secular schools. Doubt we'll see a similar memo going around at Easter.

[Black Dog]

Remember Boges - expectations of basic hygiene is not bigotry. We should be sensitive to religious Muslim women who stink at work because they wrap themselves up on 35 degree summer workdays. And washing one's feet in the sink isn't gross because it's a beautiful cultural practise. Thinking otherwise, and having perceptions shaped by a secular perspective is now intolerant and bigoted.

Yeah, it's about hygiene. I'm sure.

[Guest American Woman]

So why are they singling out one religion for special treatment and accommodation !

Christianity and all vestiges of it have been eradicated from our supposedly secular schools. Doubt we'll see a similar memo going around at Easter.

Which is the point I've been making. The problem isn't in asking for respect for Muslims, but in singling them out - as quite the opposite is happening regarding Christian observances/customs.

[Black Dog]

So why are they singling out one religion for special treatment and accommodation !

Christians are already accommodated.

Christianity and all vestiges of it have been eradicated from our supposedly secular schools. Doubt we'll see a similar memo going around at Easter.

Because everybody already gets Easter off.

[Black Dog]

Which is the point I've been making. The problem isn't in asking for respect for Muslims, but in singling them out - as quite the opposite is happening regarding Christian observances/customs.

Can you cite a comparable observance or custom from Christianity for a real apples-to-apples comparison?

Edited September 26, 2011 by Black Dog

[Bob]

Can you cite a comparable observance or custom from Christianity for a real apples-to-apples comparison?

Sure, nobody can bring in any food that was sworn off by any staff member for Lent. It's unreal how you engage in such mental gymnastics to justify ridiculous pandering masquerading as "sensitivity".

[Bob]

A particular group. In any case, I think it's insulting and against forum rules.

Oh, so now religious practises are off-limits from criticism? Even MLW fears freedom of speech that offends the sensibilities of the leftist moderator.

[Bob]

Yeah, it's about hygiene. I'm sure.

That's exactly what those examples were about.

[capricorn]

The problem isn't in asking for respect for Muslims, but in singling them out - as quite the opposite is happening regarding Christian observances/customs.

It smacks of preferential treatment and pandering.

I remember being allowed to leave school early one term to attend confirmation classes. Religion was a normal part of everyone’s life. When my kids started school in the 1980s, that attitude was long gone.

Christmas concerts no longer existed. My kids participated in depressing “winter celebrations” where references to angels, stars and shepherds were purged. The eradication of Christianity from public schools and places has pretty well succeeded. At the breakfast program my church runs for a neighbouring school, we aren’t permitted to even hint at our building’s purpose, although we know most of the children who attend have never heard of Jesus, God, or any alternate belief system. How they learn morals is a mystery to me.

So Muslim children using a school cafeteria for Friday prayers during school hours under the direction of an imam, and with the girls sitting behind the boys in a distinctly unCanadian way, is upsetting to me. If Christianity isn’t acceptable in public schools, in what is still essentially a Christian country, then no religion should be allowed.

On the other hand, if Muslims can be accommodated in public schools, all must be as well. How messy could that get? Very. Provincial party leaders have carefully evaded discussing this issue in the campaign up to now.

If you want religious education, there are private schools, churches, temples and mosques. There’s your own living room. There’s a whole Roman Catholic separate school system, the historic validity of which I accept, yet many don’t.

Or, you can push for a voucher system so kids can attend any school you want, although that leads to immigrants failing to assimilate into the mainstream.

But leave religion out of public schools. It simply causes too much trouble.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/09/25/schools-and-religion-dont-mix

Ontario's public school system is no place for religious observances.

[Michael Hardner]

Oh, so now religious practises are off-limits from criticism?

I'm not a moderator, but I doubt that they enjoy lawyerly wordplay in defence of insults.

[Shwa]

Another example of why Canada is finished, where wasting money on "training" us to accommodate others is seen as a good thing. Excuse me, but it is for people with special interests and needs to make their own accommodations for others. Why do I need "training" (otherwise known as brainwashing) in order to know how to interact with Muslims? Why can't I interact with them as I would with anyone else? What's next, forgiveness for poor performance at work from Muslims during Ramadan because of their understandable low blood sugar levels during the work day?

You appear to equate 'accomodation' with some sort of replacement of your own cultural values, which then makes your ignorance understandable and forgiveable.

The memo, however, is meant for broad audience as a nice-to-know so there isn't any inadvertant offensiveness that will require more resources to resolve. It is an easy management policy to avoid conflict and tie up resources.

"What's next" coming from your posture isn't really relevant. However, it is interesting to learn and appreciate other cultures, don't you think?

[Michael Hardner]

So why are they singling out one religion for special treatment and accommodation !

Maybe because nobody ever says "What is Christmas ?" or "What is Yom Kippur" ?

Christianity and all vestiges of it have been eradicated from our supposedly secular schools. Doubt we'll see a similar memo going around at Easter.

I've read such comparisons before, and they absolutely depend on having a different (i.e. preferential) attitude towards Christianity every time.

If we don't have Christmas carols then we're anti-Christian, but if we even mention a Muslim holiday then we're pro-Muslim. The double standard is essential to keeping the myth of Christian persecution alive.

[Bob]

I'm not a moderator, but I doubt that they enjoy lawyerly wordplay in defence of insults.

Oh, I get it. Would you have preferred if I had used the names Justin and Shelly for my hypothetical Muslim Ontario public service employees in place of Abdul and Fatima? You are exactly the type of person that sets quotas for the number of times and specific context in which certain peoples can be featured in academic textbooks for universities - where starving black Africans are screened out in order not to perpetuate "the stereotype" of starving black Africans.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Bob

[Guest American Woman]

Can you cite a comparable observance or custom from Christianity for a real apples-to-apples comparison?

It's not just Christians - so let's use the example of the requirement to "change lunch meetings to standard meetings where no food or drinks are served." Why isn't it required that only kosher foods/foods that are allowed be served in meetings during Passover?