Ontario employees sent memo about "sensitivity" to Muslims.

[Shwa]

Things that come solely from your mind aren't interesting to others. If this is true, I'd like to read about it from a reliable source.

Case in point - the false dilemma you postulated several pages ago on this very thread.

[Guest American Woman]

Case in point - the false dilemma you postulated several pages ago on this very thread.

Ummmm. Care to point out what "false dilemma" I postulated? Or are you just blowing hot air?

I await your response.

In the meantime, ponder this: I simply threw Michael Harder's words back at him. Seems he's been posting a fair amount of "things coming solely from [his] mind" in this thread himself. What's good for one poster is good for him too, eh?

But thanks for popping in with an accusation and nothing more....

[Guest American Woman]

Opinions or general observations on the philosophy, human condition can't be proven. This is why I put the word 'seems' in there. These are personal observations.

Then perhaps 'it seems from my personal observation' would be more accurate way to state it. To speak for all the people in the world as you did makes me question, "seems like" based on what? Articles? studies? newscasts? polls? - thus my response. Knowing your response is based simply on your own personal observation helps put your it in perspective for me.

You can disagree with them, but I didn't intend to start a debate on faith vs. reason. It's kind of ridiculous to debate a topic on MLW that philosophers have been considering for centuries - as though we could solve anything here.

I have no desire to get into a debate for that very reason. I simply stated the truth: 'people who believe in God are less logical than those who don't' is a false statement. Furthermore, I seriously doubt that people who believe in God more often than not struggle more with logic than those who don't - even within themselves. I think that's a ridiculously narrow minded view, and that's all I have to say about that.

[Shady]

I have no desire to get into a debate for that very reason. I simply stated the truth: 'people who believe in God are less logical than those who don't' is a false statement. Furthermore, I seriously doubt that people who believe in God more often than not struggle more with logic than those who don't - even within themselves. I think that's a ridiculously narrow minded view, and that's all I have to say about that.

I agree. Plus, it's always a shell game with these people. After they lose the discussion regarding the actual thread topic, they move it on to relgion and logic etc. It makes no sense.

[Michael Hardner]

In the meantime, ponder this: I simply threw Michael Harder's words back at him. Seems he's been posting a fair amount of "things coming solely from [his] mind" in this thread himself. What's good for one poster is good for him too, eh?

I would love to take credit for pointing out the complex relationship between faith and reason, however it didn't come from my mind. Saint Thomas Aquinas is likely your culprit here.

[Michael Hardner]

Then perhaps 'it seems from my personal observation' would be more accurate way to state it. To speak for all the people in the world as you did makes me question, "seems like" based on what? Articles? studies? newscasts? polls? - thus my response. Knowing your response is based simply on your own personal observation helps put your it in perspective for me.

Ok. I will be clearer in future.

I have no desire to get into a debate for that very reason. I simply stated the truth: 'people who believe in God are less logical than those who don't' is a false statement. Furthermore, I seriously doubt that people who believe in God more often than not struggle more with logic than those who don't - even within themselves. I think that's a ridiculously narrow minded view, and that's all I have to say about that.

I don't know that it's false, but I certainly don't agree with the statement. It's likely unprovable in any case, either way.

Now the struggle between faith and reason is an interesting question, as proven by the fact that it's been discussed for close to 1000 years. Anyone who has, or ever had faith can submit their own views on how they deal with the apparent dichotomy. And, as I posted on the other thread, it's a complex and values-based question. Pope John Paul highlighted this fact in his lengthy letter on the topic.

[PIK]

Multi culturism, where we have to protects the worlds traditions, but not allowed to protect our own. It is pathetic. MC is a failed experiment and should be abolished, but I see the left is still screaming racism and bigotry when someone questions what goes on in this country.

[Michael Hardner]

Multi culturism, where we have to protects the worlds traditions, but not allowed to protect our own. It is pathetic. MC is a failed experiment and should be abolished, but I see the left is still screaming racism and bigotry when someone questions what goes on in this country.

We hear this from time to time on here, but the arguments never seem to go beyond the level of aesthetics... i.e. "I don't like how this looks". On this very thread, we have claims being thrown around, but there's no proof of them whatsoever.

In any case, the Conservative government isn't really don't much to stop the trend so it seems we have an entirely mainstream foundation of support for Canada's policies on immigration and MC.

[Guest American Woman]

I would love to take credit for pointing out the complex relationship between faith and reason, however it didn't come from my mind. Saint Thomas Aquinas is likely your culprit here.

That isn't what I was giving you "credit" for nor is it what I responded to. My response was in regards to this claim: Although it's possible for the gentle soul to find a way to have these traits compliment each other, it seems more often that we find them in conflict - even in the same person.

[Guest American Woman]

I don't know that it's false, but I certainly don't agree with the statement. It's likely unprovable in any case, either way.

Of course it's provable, by the fact that many great people who believe in God are not lacking in their ability to see/apply logic to their views, careers, and lives.

[Michael Hardner]

That isn't what I was giving you "credit" for nor is it what I responded to. My response was in regards to this claim: Although it's possible for the gentle soul to find a way to have these traits compliment each other, it seems more often that we find them in conflict - even in the same person.

I can't even claim credit for that observation. By the way, do you doubt that faith and reason are often in conflict, even in the same person ? As a person who has had faith, I can definitely say that this is true for me.

Of course it's provable, by the fact that many great people who believe in God are not lacking in their ability to see/apply logic to their views, careers, and lives.

That doesn't prove this statement:

" 'people who believe in God are less logical than those who don't' is a false statement"

[Guest American Woman]

That doesn't prove this statement:

" 'people who believe in God are less logical than those who don't' is a false statement"

Yeah, it does. Your inability to see that defies logic.

[PIK]

We hear this from time to time on here, but the arguments never seem to go beyond the level of aesthetics... i.e. "I don't like how this looks". On this very thread, we have claims being thrown around, but there's no proof of them whatsoever.

In any case, the Conservative government isn't really don't much to stop the trend so it seems we have an entirely mainstream foundation of support for Canada's policies on immigration and MC.

Because we have allowed the all mighty immigrant to dictate policies in thsi country, it seems people born and raised here have no say anymore. Look at ONT , the TO immigrant has all the cards and the rest of the province can't do anything about it. No wonder dalton is not spending anytime up north, he does not need them.

[guyser]

Because we have allowed the all mighty immigrant to dictate policies in thsi country,

Name one..

it seems people born and raised here have no say anymore.

Such as?

Look at ONT , the TO immigrant has all the cards and the rest of the province can't do anything about it. No wonder dalton is not spending anytime up north, he does not need them.

What cards?

[Michael Hardner]

Yeah, it does. Your inability to see that defies logic.

Proving this false:

" 'people who believe in God are less logical than those who don't'"

Requires a comparison between two groups. It's a fact statement, with a comparison between the groups.

Simply showing this:

"many great people who believe in God are not lacking in their ability to see/apply logic to their views, careers, and lives."

Doesn't compare anything.

Note that I didn't ask you for a cite, since the second statement is general enough to be believable. I don't challenge people for cites on everything they post, only material that is generally doubtful, or doubtful to me personally.

That doesn't prove this statement:

" 'people who believe in God are less logical than those who don't' is a false statement"

[Michael Hardner]

Because we have allowed the all mighty immigrant to dictate policies in thsi country, it seems people born and raised here have no say anymore. Look at ONT , the TO immigrant has all the cards and the rest of the province can't do anything about it. No wonder dalton is not spending anytime up north, he does not need them.

This is just more hyperbole and complaining without any basis. I don't accept your point. If you care to prove it with some evidence, we could continue this discussion.

[Shwa]

Ummmm. Care to point out what "false dilemma" I postulated? Or are you just blowing hot air?

I await your response.

My response.

Your immediate response to uncover the Great Secret Double Standard.

[Shwa]

I agree. Plus, it's always a shell game with these people. After they lose the discussion regarding the actual thread topic, they move it on to relgion and logic etc. It makes no sense.

Nothing compared to the "shell game" used by you to see a memo to staff converted into a universal declaration against your human rights. Don't tread on me!

Ah, when it suits you of course.

[Shwa]

Multi culturism, where we have to protects the worlds traditions, but not allowed to protect our own.

No one is forcing you to eat kabobs or shawarmas. Or pizza. Or chow mien...

It is pathetic. MC is a failed experiment and should be abolished, but I see the left is still screaming racism and bigotry when someone questions what goes on in this country.

No the left screams racism and bigotry when they see racism and bigotry. They also get a chuckle out of xenophobia too.

[Michael Hardner]

They also get a chuckle out of xenophobia too.

Also, hyperbole... double standards... these things are amusing and/or tiresome depending on your mindset when you encounter them.

[Guest American Woman]

My response.

Your immediate response to uncover the Great Secret Double Standard.

Nothing "false" about it.

[Shwa]

Nothing "false" about it.

Then prove the link. Which you have failed to do on several occasions already.

Go ahead, prove the link between this memo and all the other "memos" in your head. You know, the ones that "will be passed around during the Christmas season" which you are "sure" of.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Shwa

[Guest American Woman]

Go ahead, prove the link between this memo and all the other "memos" in your head. You know, the ones that "will be passed around during the Christmas season" which you are "sure" of.

I didn't say they would be. Evidently it's your head that they exist in.

[Bob]

Anyone else find it amusing how Michael Hardner fancies himself as some sort of philosopher? He thinks he's giving us a crash course in epistemology, or something. it's hilarious. I bet if I said the NFL was the blackest professional sports organization he's demand a "cite", or if we told him that renters tend to take worse care of their homes than owners he'd demand "proof". It's a complete waste of time speaking with someone so consistently obtuse. He acts as if behaving like a robot is some sort of endearing quality.

[Shady]

Anyone else find it amusing how Michael Hardner fancies himself as some sort of philosopher?

He's been hilarious lately. My favourite Hardnerism is when he told me I couldn't criticize his statement, because it was only his opinion. Apparently if you put the letters IMO after anything, it protects it from any scrutiny. I wasn't aware of this concept.