Ron Paul in 2012

[monty16]

Sorry dude, but you're going to lose everybody on ridiculous Hitler references. That's always a losing argument.

The lost will remain lost no matter what I say. But it does serve a purpose to make more people aware and then perhaps prevent more people from falling for the Ron Paul lies. For those who have the slightest clue of what made Hitler's job of indoctrination easy, they will find a remarkable similarity to what's happening now in the US political system.

[maple_leafs182]

As I said, it works with about 20% - 25% of the people and it'll always work in times when economic hardship starts to touch people. It's the way Hitler worked it in pre-war Germany and it wouldn't have stood a chance of success in economic good times. This is a real parallel to draw which can be defended!

So the question becomes, are times bad enough to give Ron Paul success? If times get worse then his success will rise because they are directly proportional. And vice versa of course.

I really doubt that times are bad enough for Ron Paul and his ilk. But there's no doubt that the current situation is bringing the rats out of the sewers. David Duke is experiencing a surge in popularity too right now. When the political vermin such as those two come above ground there will usually be lots of people who are just itching for an excuse to voice their hatred for everyone and everything that differs from them in any way. When MJ brings it all together on Ron Paul then it concentrates the stench enough for even some of the lamest idiots to smell. Each point meshes perfectly with the previous and the next.

You clearly have a biased against Ron Paul. If you ever listened to him talk he clearly doesn't hate people he just has a different approach to solving the problems Americans face. Maybe you just don't understand where he is coming from.

[GostHacked]

The lost will remain lost no matter what I say. But it does serve a purpose to make more people aware and then perhaps prevent more people from falling for the Ron Paul lies. For those who have the slightest clue of what made Hitler's job of indoctrination easy, they will find a remarkable similarity to what's happening now in the US political system.

Well get crackin on those talking points. You are wasting time with the Hitler thing. And the comparison is laughable, even when comparing the likes of Bush or Cheney or Rumsfeld to Hitler.

[Shady]

The lost will remain lost no matter what I say. But it does serve a purpose to make more people aware and then perhaps prevent more people from falling for the Ron Paul lies. For those who have the slightest clue of what made Hitler's job of indoctrination easy, they will find a remarkable similarity to what's happening now in the US political system.

You're just making an ass out of yourself. But hey, it's your forum reputation. Do what you want with it.

[monty16]

You clearly have a biased against Ron Paul. If you ever listened to him talk he clearly doesn't hate people he just has a different approach to solving the problems Americans face. Maybe you just don't understand where he is coming from.

I've listened intently to Ron Paul for a long time now. I take part on an economics forum which is mostly libertarian and most are Ron Paul supporters. I probably know a lot more then you do about Ron Paul. I understand exactly where Ron Paul wants his followers to 'think' he is coming from.

Unfortunately for Ron Paul, the cracks in his facade are starting to develop. Probably one of the most damaging cracks appeared when Gloria Borger interviewed him and he couldn't get away fast enough. He did himself tremendous damage when he started frantically trying to get his mic off. No politician is going to get away with that. And so now he has become smarter and is trying to stay away from the media in the same way Palin operates.

Ron Paul is really no threat yet because things have not gotten bad enough for the people. It does however serve a very useful purpose to make people aware of what he is up to. Or at least get them wondering and doubting Ron Paul's real purposes.

I have no difficulty saying that he's a filthy racist hater. He's been caught flatfooted practicing it. And it's also obvious where his son Rand got his racism from.

So is that what Americans want? Yes, the dregs of American society in the south do want it. It's exactly what they want because they think that it's a recipe for more money in their pockets.

[monty16]

You're just making an ass out of yourself. But hey, it's your forum reputation. Do what you want with it.

I'm not trying to convince you shady but I'm getting the responses out of you that I'm trying to get. Nothing of substance but a mindless blanket defence of Ron Paul. If you can sell that to Americans then they are more prepared and indoctrinated than I could have imagined!

[maple_leafs182]

I've listened intently to Ron Paul for a long time now. I take part on an economics forum which is mostly libertarian and most are Ron Paul supporters. I probably know a lot more then you do about Ron Paul. I understand exactly where Ron Paul wants his followers to 'think' he is coming from.

Unfortunately for Ron Paul, the cracks in his facade are starting to develop. Probably one of the most damaging cracks appeared when Gloria Borger interviewed him and he couldn't get away fast enough. He did himself tremendous damage when he started frantically trying to get his mic off. No politician is going to get away with that. And so now he has become smarter and is trying to stay away from the media in the same way Palin operates.

Ron Paul is really no threat yet because things have not gotten bad enough for the people. It does however serve a very useful purpose to make people aware of what he is up to. Or at least get them wondering and doubting Ron Paul's real purposes.

I have no difficulty saying that he's a filthy racist hater. He's been caught flatfooted practicing it. And it's also obvious where his son Rand got his racism from.

So is that what Americans want? Yes, the dregs of American society in the south do want it. It's exactly what they want because they think that it's a recipe for more money in their pockets.

So you are saying Ron Paul is misleading people and he is just a big racist. Well let me just say I strongly disagree with you.

[Shady]

I'm not trying to convince you shady but I'm getting the responses out of you that I'm trying to get. Nothing of substance but a mindless blanket defence of Ron Paul. If you can sell that to Americans then they are more prepared and indoctrinated than I could have imagined!

Actually, I'm not much of a fan of Ron Paul. I just know that he's not Hitler.

[monty16]

Well get crackin on those talking points. You are wasting time with the Hitler thing. And the comparison is laughable, even when comparing the likes of Bush or Cheney or Rumsfeld to Hitler.

Comparing Bush2, Cheney, or Rumsfeld to Hitler would be wrongheaded. That would be nothing more than rhetoric against their political agendas. And besides, they have already been discredited in the minds of both the left and the right. Ron Paul is a different type of critter altogether. Remarkably similar in methods to those employed by Hitler. Also a remarkably similar situation in the countries in question as pertains to economic hardships. Differing only in degree at the moment. Ron Paul and David Duke are bound to excel.

[Shady]

Comparing Bush2, Cheney, or Rumsfeld to Hitler would be wrongheaded. That would be nothing more than rhetoric against their political agendas. And besides, they have already been discredited in the minds of both the left and the right. Ron Paul is a different type of critter altogether. Remarkably similar in methods to those employed by Hitler. Also a remarkably similar situation in the countries in question as pertains to economic hardships. Differing only in degree at the moment. Ron Paul and David Duke are bound to excel.

Complete nonsense. Reducing the size of government is not something Hitler has in common. Reducing the size and scope of the military isn't something Hitler has in common. You're just utterly and completely wrong.

[monty16]

Actually, I'm not much of a fan of Ron Paul. I just know that he's not Hitler.

I'm not trying to say he's Hitler but I'm getting the message across to you already that there are similarities. But you tell me that you are not a supporter of Ron Paul so why not take the leap and tell us why not? What's wrong with Ron Paul's agenda that you can't support. Not what you can support, that makes the copout easier. Too extremist for you? Too racist for you? Getting rid of all those gov agendas to much for you? Rather just fix gov up a little?

[monty16]

Complete nonsense. Reducing the size of government is not something Hitler has in common. Reducing the size and scope of the military isn't something Hitler has in common. You're just utterly and completely wrong.

Remember what I said, Ron Paul's expressed agenda is not his true agenda. Leading the people toward being more exclusinist is. This is the initial goal in both cases.

[Shady]

I'm not trying to say he's Hitler but I'm getting the message across to you already that there are similarities.

There are similarities. They're both human males.

Rather just fix gov up a little?

It depends on what that means.

[monty16]

There are similarities. They're both human males.

It depends on what that means.

You need some time to think now so I'll leave you alone for a while. You're obviously a Ron Paul supporter who's afraid to be honest and admit he is. I've got your number. If I didn't have your number you would be picking up on the challenge to tell us what you don't like about Ron Paul. And you would be doing it in a convincing way, not a halfhearted way to make it look real. You're typical of a lot of Ron Paul supporters who are always saying that they don't agree with Ron Paul totally. (snicker)

[Shady]

You need some time to think now so I'll leave you alone for a while. You're obviously a Ron Paul supporter who's afraid to be honest and admit he is. I've got your number. If I didn't have your number you would be picking up on the challenge to tell us what you don't like about Ron Paul. And you would be doing it in a convincing way, not a halfhearted way to make it look real. You're typical of a lot of Ron Paul supporters who are always saying that they don't agree with Ron Paul totally. (snicker)

Ok dude. Whatever you say. I just wanted to know what exactly fix gov up a little actually means, you know, policy wise.

[punked]

You need some time to think now so I'll leave you alone for a while. You're obviously a Ron Paul supporter who's afraid to be honest and admit he is. I've got your number. If I didn't have your number you would be picking up on the challenge to tell us what you don't like about Ron Paul. And you would be doing it in a convincing way, not a halfhearted way to make it look real. You're typical of a lot of Ron Paul supporters who are always saying that they don't agree with Ron Paul totally. (snicker)

Don't fool yourself Shady is a NeoCon he just hates the government when they do things for their own people (Schools, environmental protection, wall street regulation) however when the government is telling people how to live (Abortion laws, War, police state) he loves them. He is not a Ron Paul supporter I can tell you that.

[Steve T]

because government is elected by the people and has the legal authority to do so. And it exists already.

...That argument seems one that could be used to replace any and all private sector action by government. Others of us have the view that (1) the more government does, the more power it accrues and therefore the more corrupt it gets and (2) government rarely does anything as well as it can be done by the private sector.

[monty16]

3. Enable State Extremism: Would let states set their own policies on abortion, gay marriage, prayer in school, and most other issues.

Meshes nicely with his racist agenda. Takes common sense checks and balances away from the federal government and hands it to states that would endorse the death penalty for abortion, advocate capital punishment for gays, mandate Christian prayer in schools, consequently stomping on the rights of non-Christians, and more. And he mascerades under the name of freedom while doing all this. And the baggers just eat it up as they scream for rights under their constitution. Never once considering the downside of Ron Paul's agenda on minorities.

Ron Paul can pretend he's protecting the constitution but a quick look at this item 3 shows that he's doing the opposite. And it's exactly what Ron Paul is all about, along with his racist son Rand. Even stupid tea baggers can't be fooled by this one but they sure want to pretend they are.

[Steve T]

<snip>

what becomes most obvious is that Ron Paul is appealing to the worst in people. He's camoflaging his racism and hatefilled agenda by presenting alternatives in a way that appeals to his followers' selfishness and exclusionist biases. The trouble is for his supporters though, is it's looking at the whole package which makes it unmistakably an agenda of hate and greed. It has tea partiers written all over it.

<snip>

...Neither this nor any of your latest posts do anything at all to convince me that Representative Paul is not sincere in his stated positions nor that he is racist, hatefilled, selfish, exclusionist, hateful or greedy. Anyone can sling about such accusations, it is quite something else to find and present real evidence! That's not to say that I'm convinced that he is not what you say he is but I prefer to assume that people believe what they say they believe until there is some persuasive evidence that they do not. What you have evidenced is that you disagree with his stated positions and that is why you are posting these arguments.

[GostHacked]

You need some time to think now so I'll leave you alone for a while. You're obviously a Ron Paul supporter who's afraid to be honest and admit he is. I've got your number. If I didn't have your number you would be picking up on the challenge to tell us what you don't like about Ron Paul. And you would be doing it in a convincing way, not a halfhearted way to make it look real. You're typical of a lot of Ron Paul supporters who are always saying that they don't agree with Ron Paul totally. (snicker)

You are one heck of a troll. Bravo.

[monty16]

4. Protect Sexual Predators' Privacy: Voted against requiring operators of wi-fi networks who discover the transmission of child porn and other forms online sex predation to report it to the government.

This is a little different and appears to be out of character for Ron Paul, considering that he is so hung up in the sex department. But is it?

Ron Paul needs to pretend he's consistent on government interference in the lives of the people so he has to pretend on this. But we know he isn't because the previous point shows clearly that Ron Paul supports draconian measures against people's rights and privacies at the state level. Taking away those rights and privacies that the federal government rightfully protects. It can't get any more transparently phony than this! This is one of the best examples of where the libertarian agenda can be shot full of holes. There is simply no defence for it.

[monty16]

...Neither this nor any of your latest posts do anything at all to convince me that Representative Paul is not sincere in his stated positions nor that he is racist, hatefilled, selfish, exclusionist, hateful or greedy. Anyone can sling about such accusations, it is quite something else to find and present real evidence! That's not to say that I'm convinced that he is not what you say he is but I prefer to assume that people believe what they say they believe until there is some persuasive evidence that they do not. What you have evidenced is that you disagree with his stated positions and that is why you are posting these arguments.

In other words Steve, you disagree with me but then turn around and say you don't disagree with what I say he is. That's fine, that's how Ron Paul apologists operate. None want to dirty themselves with supporting him totally but none want to say that they don't support him. Sartorum is covered in a smelly mess of excrement but Ron Paul is covered in something much worse. You're getting to it Steve!

[Steve T]

<snip>

Ron Paul very often depends on quoting the constitution in order to appeal to simple minded people. Americans have been well indoctrinated into believing the dogma that the constitution is sacred. And so they support Ron Paul on that basis rather than understanding that his real agenda is being camoflaged by his constitution arguments. The 'constitution' can be used for any number of dishonest purposes and only takes a dishonest politician like Ron Paul who will stoop to the lowest levels for political gain.

...So show us where what Representative Paul says is different from what the US Constitution says.

<snip>

And the real agenda which appeals to the lowest is that they can see that to throw people to the wolves who benefit and depend on medicare or social security will mean more money in their pockets.

...That's a strawman, IMHO. I agree with Representative Paul because I believe there are better ways to raise the welfare of people who are currently or prospectively "beneficiaries" of medicare and/ or social security. Oh, but wait, surely I'm only just saying that but am really just greedy!

<snip>

but instead will present weak arguments to say that charity or friends will make up the shortfall. Knowing in their hearts that it wouldn't and never has. Hence the reason for government run social programs that are absolutely necessary.

...And I humbly disagree. Not only would charity, friends and family be able to fully replace federal welfare programs in my opinion but be more effective and result in less corruption. But that's just me throwing out my own personal opinion, just as you have yours, the difference being that you present yours as absolute, undeniable fact, based on honest and laudable nature (which I do not doubt), as opposed to mine, which must be hateful and greedy because it disagrees with yours).

[GostHacked]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57350172-503544/ron-paul-most-unacceptable-candidate-iowa-republicans-say-in-new-poll/?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.4

A new poll of likely Republican caucus-goers in Iowa shows Mitt Romney and Ron Paul running neck and neck for the GOP presidential nomination, but luckily for Romney, those voters also call Paul the most "unacceptable" candidate running.

As many as 41 percent of likely caucus-goers said they would find Paul "not acceptable as the Republican nominee for president," according to the new NBC News/ Marist poll, conducted December 27-28. Another 35 percent called Paul an acceptable candidate, while 21 percent said they would find him acceptable, but they would have reservations about his candidacy.

Nice, so running neck and neck with Romney in the polls, but at the same time, he is unacceptable? Just another way they try to sideline Ron Paul. If both Romney and Paul are tied and only one is unacceptable, why would he even poll as high as Romney?

Give it all you got monty1.

[Steve T]

Nobody wants that! But it appeals to shallow tea partiers because they are shallow people.

..."Nobody wants that" but "shallow tea partiers...?" So not only are tea partiers "shallow people" but they're also "[n]obod[ies]" because they want that?

<snip>

None of them are the least bit interested in the implications of abolishing all those necessary government departments.

...And they are necessary because...? I don't see that they are necessary at all, except for those employed by them whose talents wouldn't merit in the private sector the salaries and benefits they are given in government jobs.

<snip>

This one directly relates to his racist tendencies as it is obvious to him that to eliminate those branches of government will primarily affect the poorest in American society. And the poorest being blacks and Hispanics to a large degree. It's far right extremism on a par with Nazism.

...You left out the part about the myth that charity, family and friends will take up the slack! <grin> And how, exactly, does the Homeland Security Department disproportionately "benefit" poor Blacks and Hispanics?