Ron Paul in 2012

[monty16]

This is great stuff but it's also serves the purpose of bringing back the rabid right Ron Paul supporters to a little reality:

Is Ron Paul an Anti-Semite? Absolutely No. As a Jew, (half on my mother’s side), I can categorically say that I never heard anything out of his mouth, in hundreds of speeches I listened too over the years, or in my personal presence that could be called, “Anti-Semite.” No slurs. No derogatory remarks.

He is however, most certainly Anti-Israel, and Anti-Israeli in general. He wishes the Israeli state did not exist at all. He expressed this to me numerous times in our private conversations. His view is that Israel is more trouble than it is worth, specifically to the America taxpayer. He sides with the Palestinians, and supports their calls for the abolishment of the Jewish state, and the return of Israel, all of it, to the Arabs.

Myself as a leftie, and keeping in mind that I'm not a jew hater, I can go along with Ron Paul most of the way on this. Where I have to stop is where he advocates taking 'all' of Israel away from the jews. That's just over the top in anti-semitism in my opinion and I would only advocate going back to the UN's mandate of borders before the 67 war.

The question is, how is that going to sit with righties who pound their bibles and maintain that their god has ordained it, blah, blah, blah? Ron Paul has about as much hope as a fart in a wind storm!

http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/12/26/im-not-homophobic-i-just-dont-like-being-around-gays-and-their-bathrooms-scare-me/

Edited December 27, 2011 by monty1

[maple_leafs182]

You might want to look at the bond lending rates of those countries which are printing money (US, Japan, UK, etc) vs. those who can't or wont print money to cover their spending (EU countries). Fact is Japan has a much higher debt to GDP then say Italy and is paying 1% on their 10 years notes while Italy is paying what is it now 6%? Fact is Ron Paul is dead wrong.

At this point who predicted to the collapse is irrelevant. Now it is all about whose policies will help (Not Ron Paul's) and whose will hurt (Ron Paul's). It is that simple Ron Paul is advocating for policies which lead to the depression. That is a fact. I say no thank you to that.

Predicting the collapse isn't irrelevant. If people don't understand how the problem came to be then they won't know how to solve it. Ron Paul isn't dead wrong, just because rates haven't gone up yet doesn't mean they won't. Yes, the Fed is bringing the rates down temporarily by printing money but that can't last forever, I don't know why you think it can. As long as America continues the same fiscal and monetary policies you will see the economy getting weaker and the dollar keep falling...2008 will be a walk in the park compared to the economic crash that will take place in the near future.

Dre, Ron Paul doesn't want to link the dollar back to gold he said he to end the Fed's monopoly by legalizing competition. If you read the constitution it gives congress authority to mint gold and silver coins so I assume that is what he would do. So there would be dollars for the folks who want dollars and gold and silver for people who want an alternative.

[punked]

Predicting the collapse isn't irrelevant. If people don't understand how the problem came to be then they won't know how to solve it. Ron Paul isn't dead wrong, just because rates haven't gone up yet doesn't mean they won't. Yes, the Fed is bringing the rates down temporarily by printing money but that can't last forever, I don't know why you think it can. As long as America continues the same fiscal and monetary policies you will see the economy getting weaker and the dollar keep falling...2008 will be a walk in the park compared to the economic crash that will take place in the near future.

Dre, Ron Paul doesn't want to link the dollar back to gold he said he to end the Fed's monopoly by legalizing competition. If you read the constitution it gives congress authority to mint gold and silver coins so I assume that is what he would do. So there would be dollars for the folks who want dollars and gold and silver for people who want an alternative.

Dollars going up not down. Sorry wrong.

[maple_leafs182]

Dollars going up not down. Sorry wrong.

Because of the Euro crisis not because the economy is getting stronger.

[dre]

Because of the Euro crisis not because the economy is getting stronger.

Thats part of it, but there huge domestic factors in play as well.

The house bubble is still deflating which is driving down rents. That puts downward pressure on the CPI.

http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4e0a1224ccd1d5fd58020000/chart.jpg

And the jobless rate is over 9% which is pushing down wages, and forcing businesses to lower prices in order to move inventories.

Inflation is being kept in check temporarily by the recession.

[monty16]

Taking a topic on Ron Paul and turning into a discussion on the Euro is over the top. Where are the moderators that are supposed to keep threads on topic?

Is this a purposeful avoidance of the Ron Paul issue on the part of his supporters, mainly based on the fact that Ron Paul has been outed and has been had? I think so.

[monty16]

Predicting the collapse isn't irrelevant. If people don't understand how the problem came to be then they won't know how to solve it. Ron Paul isn't dead wrong, just because rates haven't gone up yet doesn't mean they won't. Yes, the Fed is bringing the rates down temporarily by printing money but that can't last forever, I don't know why you think it can. As long as America continues the same fiscal and monetary policies you will see the economy getting weaker and the dollar keep falling...2008 will be a walk in the park compared to the economic crash that will take place in the near future.

Dre, Ron Paul doesn't want to link the dollar back to gold he said he to end the Fed's monopoly by legalizing competition. If you read the constitution it gives congress authority to mint gold and silver coins so I assume that is what he would do. So there would be dollars for the folks who want dollars and gold and silver for people who want an alternative.

Good grief, the constitution? Your constitution probably outlined the rules for gentlemen to follow when proposing a duel to the death with another gentleman who insulted his choice of linen for a three cornered hat. Are there not more important issues to take into consideration in this 21st. century? This choice of linens for a hat is roughly equivalent in importatance to the topic you people choose to waste cyber space discussing here!

[maple_leafs182]

Good grief, the constitution? Your constitution probably outlined the rules for gentlemen to follow when proposing a duel to the death with another gentleman who insulted his choice of linen for a three cornered hat. Are there not more important issues to take into consideration in this 21st. century? This choice of linens for a hat is roughly equivalent in importatance to the topic you people choose to waste cyber space discussing here!

What are you talking about?

[punked]

Thats part of it, but there huge domestic factors in play as well.

The house bubble is still deflating which is driving down rents. That puts downward pressure on the CPI.

http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4e0a1224ccd1d5fd58020000/chart.jpg

And the jobless rate is over 9% which is pushing down wages, and forcing businesses to lower prices in order to move inventories.

Inflation is being kept in check temporarily by the recession.

How is a jobless rate of 8.6% the same as one over 9%? Fox newsing it there aren't we?

[maple_leafs182]

How is a jobless rate of 8.6% the same as one over 9%? Fox newsing it there aren't we?

This is the holiday season so people have been hiring extra help and over 300,000 people left the workforce in November which helped drive the unemployment rate down.

If you look at U6 date unemployment is closer to 15%. The government only reports U3 which is 8.6%.

Edited December 28, 2011 by maple_leafs182

[Guest Manny]

I think that if Ron Paul actually made it to president and actually tried to implement some of his ideas, he'd spend most of his time dodging bullets. But that may not be the most important goal for Paul. In a way I think he tries to bring a certain level of influence on others in the republican party, to keep the party steering more to the right. Some of his economic ideas are not so whako and have been adopting by other republican leaders. I think he also played an important role in establishing the Tea Party. So Paul's greatest value is in influencing party direction and thought, not necessarily winning the top prize.

[bud]

ron paul doesn't have the aipac vote and endorsement which, so far, has been needed by every candidate who wanted to become president. fortunately, the amount of money he's receiving from individuals have been quite impressive. not to mention receiving the highest financial support from military men and women.

with the crop of idiots running against him, paul has a real chance of winning.

if he does win the gop race, then the mainstream media will have no choice but to admit that he is for real.

[dre]

I think that if Ron Paul actually made it to president and actually tried to implement some of his ideas, he'd spend most of his time dodging bullets.

The president doesnt have the mandate to do any of the stuff Paul wants to do anyways. Most of it would have to be implemented in the legislative branch, and it would still be packed fulled of the same bought meat thats there now.

Edited December 28, 2011 by dre

[cybercoma]

This is the holiday season so people have been hiring extra help and over 300,000 people left the workforce in November which helped drive the unemployment rate down.

If you look at U6 date unemployment is closer to 15%. The government only reports U3 which is 8.6%.

The unemployment rate went up in November. I think you just miswrote what you were trying to say.

[punked]

The unemployment rate went up in November. I think you just miswrote what you were trying to say.

If going up means falling by .4% then you would be right. However because what that really means is it went down then both of you are wrong.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

[GostHacked]

If going up means falling by .4% then you would be right. However because what that really means is it went down then both of you are wrong.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

The numbers are always a little skewed around Christmas. All these temp jobs companies hire just to get through the holiday season will be axed in January. I wonder if there is a trend that shows just that in the unemployment numbers.

[punked]

The numbers are always a little skewed around Christmas. All these temp jobs companies hire just to get through the holiday season will be axed in January. I wonder if there is a trend that shows just that in the unemployment numbers.

yah but these are seasonal adjusted numbers. Which means Christmas is factored in and numbers are readjusted for that fact. Sorry again you are showing your knowledge of the system or lack there of.

[GostHacked]

yah but these are seasonal adjusted numbers. Which means Christmas is factored in and numbers are readjusted for that fact. Sorry again you are showing your knowledge of the system or lack there of.

I don't and won't claim to know it all, however we do know that numbers are fudged to show a certain point. You see how hard the media is trying to sideline Ron Paul, so it's not much of a stretch for the media to hide or obfuscate the real numbers, even if they are from government sources. Not sure how much you can trust government sources since it would be in their best interest to show positives not negatives. Just like the media helped downplay the severity of the housing crisis before it happened and then were left to eat crow because they were obviously wrong. Just like the media helped upplay the severity of Saddam's WMDs, and they were wrong there too. The government and media is playing the American people and counting on them to be uninformed and dumbed down.

You may be informed, but you are relying on the information they want you to see. That's my take on it.

[GostHacked]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/28/surging-in-iowa-ron-paul-takes-turn-as-punching-bag/

The attacks on Paul are going to step up. Why? Because, winning!

For months, Ron Paul was by turns ignored, tolerated and occasionally even praised by his opponents in the Republican presidential race.

But with the libertarian-leaning candidate surging to the front of the field in Iowa with less than a week to go before the caucuses, Paul's extensive record of outside-the-GOP-mainstream comments and views is coming under withering attack by his competitors.

While some of his fellow Republicans have practically adopted his unwavering criticism of the Federal Reserve and Washington's spending habits over the course of the campaign, they are picking apart other aspects of his record -- in particular singling out his foreign policy views as dangerously isolationist.

I've also seen Paul in congress speaking to almost an empty house when debating articles. I'd argue that Paul spends more time in congress than a good deal of his 'colleagues'. . And this guy has the audacity to say ...

Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum also had some choice words for Paul on the campaign trail.

On Tuesday, he described Paul as an unproductive member of Congress who is "left of Barack Obama" on national security.

[dre]

Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum also had some choice words for Paul on the campaign trail.

On Tuesday, he described Paul as an unproductive member of Congress who is "left of Barack Obama" on national security.

Mr Santorum is a little confused. The idea of providing global socialist institutions like policing and conflict resolution on the US taxpayers dime is a left-wing/liberal philosophy. Conservatives traditionally have against providing these types of social programs for the rest of the world.

In Mr Santorums bizzaro little world, global socialism is a right wing concept

[GostHacked]

Well, here is more bizzaro world for you dre.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/28/cnn-poll-romney-on-top-gingrich-fading-santorum-rising-in-iowa/?hpt=hp_t1

Now this is similar language to that in the Fox article I posted, but the names have changed.

CNN Poll: Romney on top, Gingrich fading & Santorum rising in Iowa

.....

In Iowa, both Romney and Paul are each up five points among likely caucus goers from a CNN/Time/ORC poll conducted at the start of December. The new survey indicates that Santorum, the former senator from Pennsylvania, is at 16% support, up 11 points from the beginning of the month, with Gingrich at 14%, down from 33% in the previous poll. Since Gingrich's rise late last month and early this month in both national and early voting state surveys, he's come under attack by many of the rival campaigns.

.....

They say Santorum us surging in the polls. He is up from 5%, 11 points to 16%. Maybe this surge has some legs to it. But it's a strange thing to see them all turn on each other when one person is ahead in the polls. Attacks and more attacks, and without really stating their views.

[monty16]

Santorum? the gooogled Santorum? The creationist Santorum? Who would have ever thought that he would take his turn as an anti-Romney?

The whole world is watching this clown show. Americans should be proud!

[cybercoma]

If going up means falling by .4% then you would be right. However because what that really means is it went down then both of you are wrong.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

I was all mixed up. I thought we were talking about Canada, but this is the US forum. My bad.

[Guest American Woman]

Americans should be proud!

Thank you. We are.

[cybercoma]

I came across this article on Ron Paul's 15 most "extreme" positions. You may agree or disagree with these things individually, but try to imagine what America would look like were he able to implement all of them. Try to think of how all these things work together and what his "vision" for the country would look like with everything combined.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/05/extreme-ron-paul-president-2012